The World I See


In the world I see – you are stalking elk thru the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center.  You’ll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life.  You’ll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower.  And when you look down, you’ll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

This is the vision of a paleoanarchist. It is the vision of humanity without walls, without controls, without the Luciferian system that so enervates this world that even sensing it would be as hopeless for most as a fish sensing water.

This system has led to the crucifixion of the earth that we are currently witnessing.  For thousands of years, humans have screwed-up, trashed, and exploited our planet [the Church™ included], and now history expects you to clean up after everyone.  You have to recycle, bring your own bags to the grocery store, pay carbon taxes, account for every drop of used motor oil, and be left with the bill for nuclear waste, burned hydrocarbons, and land-filled garbage dumped generations before you were born.

Imagine you are witnessing humans at the dawn of agriculture.  We had just previously spent hundreds of thousands of years living in the paradise of hunter/gatherer tribes.  Humans neither sowed, reaped, nor gathered into barns because we took from the earth as we had need.  We were clothed as the lilies of the field — neither toiling nor spinning to make garments to cover our nakedness.  This Edenic lifestyle came to an end when Satan successfully employed mortals in implementing such things as sedentary agriculture, urbanization, monogamous family-units, exclusive rights to property, states, etc.  Such systems of domestication required a control-based relationship with the land, plants, and animals being domesticated – and, by extension, unrighteous dominion over humanity.  We can see that this, over time, has devolved to where every conceivable physical thing from food to land to genes to ideas are viewed as assets and property to be owned and controlled.  This system views animals as so-many pounds of protoplasmic tissues that can be fed and treated any way humans can conceive of.  Humans who view lower forms of life this way go on to view other people within their community, and other communities within the world, in similar terms.

Humans are approaching the beginning of the final phase of this narrative.  We now:

  • subsidize every cow in America and the EU with over $2.50 per day – for perspective that more than what three billion humans have to live off of each day.  One in five live [if you can call it living] on less than one dollar a day.
  • experiment with direct genetic engineering of life
  • murder 30 to 40% of infants thru abortion and fertility clinics
  • feed the average American 15 pounds of synthetic food additives every year
  • throw away 99% of consumer goods within six months of purchase
  • fluoridate 66% of the US public water supply
  • throw out 4 ½ pounds of garbage each day [per person, in America] – and for each can of trash you take to the curb, 70 cans of garbage were thrown out to make the stuff you threw out.

Satan is directing this trend until its culmination whereby life itself is a commodity and property of no greater or lesser fundamental value than any other asset that Babylon can sell or trade.  As state combines with state to form a prison planet – Satan will be approaching success in his mission to captivate a majority of the children of our Father.  Luckily, the Lord is moving as well.  We are currently in a mercy phase – wherein He is allowing events to unfold.  But soon, the time will come where we will see the Lord directly involving Himself in our affairs to set these things right.  The unified, Gentile LDS Church ™ will be broken-up – and perhaps then assimilated into the state.  These sects will be overrun with iniquity, and the Lamanites will rise up against the state/church and destroy them.  May I live to see you all in Zion.

As a side note:  I am weary to see that most Mormons associate Zion with the celebration of agrarian virtues – those who conceive a small-scale, property-sharing economy based largely on agriculture as providing the best model for a Zion community.  However, cooperation and trust are the key virtues of Zion.  Studying human society has brought me to the conclusion that hunter/gatherers [typically portrayed as the heartless loners] have higher levels of trust and cooperation within their communities than do agrarian, sedentary ones.  Hunting an elk takes a great deal more cooperation when compared to plowing, planting, and harvesting a field of grain.  People are attracted to the idea of an American farm family because of the independent, self-sufficient image it romanticizes.  When you labor hard to bring forth the annual crops from the soil – you will be much less likely to have those things in common than if you hunted and gathered as a tribe and therefore shared with all as a tribe.  The key to building Zion will not be found in the largest mistake in human history — i.e. the agricultural revolution.  It will be built by a return to Nature.  There must be a re-activation of our tribal functions, a return to seeking the best gifts of the Spirit, a re-implimentation of tribal relationships — which includes an active living of the law of chastity, connecting only with real human beings, along with a true understanding of body modesty, and ingesting a diet congruent with human physiology [hint: humans didn’t succeed on this planet by eating sugar and grains].

This is the world I see.

Next Article by Justin:  Cheerfully Doing All Things

Previous Article by Justin:  The Garment

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25 Comments

  1. Wow!

    I have been a member all my life. Returned missionary, Temple marriage. 12 children. We have been very active. Now my wife is having an affair with a man who really satisfies her. He gives her more emotional support than I have ever given. Given where I am right now. I can’t forgive neither. And I can’t get this concept you are talking about being in intimate relationship with many wives, or husbands. How do you really wrap your brain around it. Are you just reading books that say that we are meant to have more than one partner. Have you tried it out. It hurts to think of my wife lying with another man at night, and I am all alone. I don’t go get me a mistress because of my being in the church. Where’s the mercy in all this?

  2. Now my wife is having an affair with a man who really satisfies her. He gives her more emotional support than I have ever given.
    Where are our motives? Are you more concerned with what you get out of your relationship with her — or what she gets out of it? However, your wife should also not be avoiding your feelings thru this affair. By that I mean, taking another spouse is a problem if she is with this other man — at the expense of intimacy with you. A person needs to multiply his or her love only insofar as they are able to love more people.

    I don’t go get me a mistress because of my being in the church.
    This is most of the problem. Between the work the Church(TM) and the state have been doing — the practicality of true tribal life is next to impossible for most people.

  3. Brother Hell raising
    I can see it would be very hard to have your wife do that. But as I talked to my wife before reading anything on this blog, I explained that my love for her and other women was the same. It was just that since I am married only to her I am intimate only with her. She retorted back how would you feel if I some other man kissed me. I answered honestly and said I would say he had good taste and was glad he loved you. She didn’t believe me. She has jealousy. Jealousy comes from the idea that we own another person and their affections. That is false. We can never be happy thinking that we are in control of others or that others are ours to control. It is antithetical to existence this is why God does not use force or try to control our choices.
    What she has done to start a relation without consulting you is wrong. Of course you can consult with the Lord as to whether it is right to divorce her.
    Now Justin I am on the verge of getting land and trying to live off it. I plan to free myself from Babylon in all its forms. But I am sure I can’t live off it as a hunter gatherer. I was planning on planting and harvesting. Isn’t that what the Lord had people do in the old testament and book or mormon? You know I searched for free energy for years and found it. But not like people think. But what is undeniable is that as far as getting more out than you put into a system nothing beats growing plants. It is 1:100 increase often. It is what enabled the Nephites to prosper tremendously in just 2 years after complete devastation. I see consolidation of growing in the hands of a few a very bad thing just like monopolistic and worse centralized power systems and communication systems all very bad thing as they provide an easy control over others. But individual growing to live off of I don’t see the evil. No I am not a vegetarian either. Enlighten me if you can. I just see agriculture as a step in the right direction. Although I admit reading your post makes me see that self sufficiency, being able to live without the tribe is not a good thing. I thought it said Adam tilled the fields. He wasn’t apostate was he?

  4. My mother always tried to drill this love of farm life into me (along with a bunch of other crap) and I never did get down with it but i thought that was mostly due to me being lazy so i felt guilty. Something like island life always appealed more to me. But I am wondering about two things.

    1. Hunting. Maybe I really am just lazy cause it sounds like a lot of work to me. I am by no means opposed to it if it is for food and other needful things. I am not against people eating meat. But I am like you said very saddened by the cheapening of life and the resulting cruel treatment of animals that is mostly due to agrarian lifestyles. The main question mark which remains over this issue for me is i guess the concept of Zion as a ramp up to and into the days of the lion and the lamb and an end to killing. What do you think about that?

    2. Farming. Is it really evil? Is excess even evil or is it about how we use excess? I agree that there would never be ridiculous amounts of excess leading to waste in Zion. But efficiency and even ingenuity I would hope are able to exist without the evil urge getting the best of us. What are your thoughts?

  5. Hey Justin sorry to be lazy and ask before I read your links material. I read the Largest Mistake link. Fascinating. Reminds me of a book called Nutrition and Degenerative Disease about aboriginal people’s diet and the incredible difference in health from that to the farm fed diet.
    I will still get the land. It will just have plenty of wild sources of food. But I may have to hunt chickens still. Oh yeah there is actually a plentiful source of free rabbits around.
    I will let you know.

  6. I do not see the cultivation of plants as evil. It was during the Neolithic revolution — there’s a wiki page on it contained in my post [linked at agricultural revolution] — that humans began cultivating something new — cereal grains. In the previous hundreds of thousands of years humans had not ingested these things, and with good reason. Between phytic acid, lectins, and gluten — it is clear that most grains don’t want to be eaten.

    It was cultivation of these crops that was Luciferian in nature. It led to the dust bowl for example.

    Again — plants are not evil. DYC4557, and anyone else interested, I would suggest that you look into something called permaculture [and here].

    Its a way of raising plants and animals, and creating a self-sustaining environment that fosters symbiotic relationships between all plants and animals involved. By designing systems according to Nature’s laws, less work is needed for upkeep and the biodiversity of the landscape manages itself. It is how humans will restore Eden. It won’t come thru industrial [or even small-scale models based on the industry] amber waves of grain, corn, and soy.

  7. Since my side-note at the end of the post is generated such interest — perhaps I will work on a post about that next.

    Am I too assume that the rest of the post isn’t generated comments because people agree with it?

  8. Interesting ideas. I see Zion, before the Millenium, as an agricultural community. Not neccesarily industrial agriculture we see today. But something simple, cooperative(Consecrated), and doesn’t do a great deal of harm to the environment. But I see this as a precurser to the Millenial system where the earth will reurn to a more Edenic state and we will have no need for agriculture. We will be able to return to a hunter-gatherer society. Ok maybe not HUNTER-gatherer, maybe just gatherer.

  9. doesn’t do a great deal of harm to the environment.
    Feeding grain to cattle has got to be one of the dumbest ideas in the history of civilization. Cows, sheep, and other grazing animals are endowed with the ability to convert grasses, which those of us who possess only one stomach cannot digest, into food that we can digest — meat.

    Instead of cultivating natural grasses, which are better for the soil and environment — our system instead grows grain, which then has to be harvested, and then shipped to the feedlot, and then ship out the extra feces that the animals produce when they eat grain instead of grass. If we cultivated grass — then the animals harvest the grass, no need to ship it to them, and then their feces fertilize the ground (instead of becoming a fecal concentration camp).

    Check chapter 2 of this book

    Ok maybe not HUNTER-gatherer, maybe just gatherer.
    I’ve wondered whether perfected animals are capable of giving their tissue to Gods for their food. Since they have their agency, hunting (meaning taking the life from the animal without consent) would be out of the question. However, I don’t see where it would be impossible for them to choose to give tissue to persons they respect for them to eat.

  10. I might have my definintions confused, again, I though agriculture meant growing, corn, beans, potatoes, etc for human consumption. I wasn’t refering to raising livestock or animals. I think in pre-Millennial Zion there would be (as descripbed on the Plats of Zion) land for growing crops and every home having a garden. There would be orchards, and feilds to grow food for human consumption. I think there would be little, if any, raising of animals for consumption. So I think maybe I got my definitions mixed up. If so I apologize.

    Yes it is an interesting topic, Millennial consumption of animals. I think we will have amuch closer ties to nature. Many native tribes around the world offer a prayer of thanks/forgiveness for taking the life of an animal, or tree for that matter.

    D&C 89:11-12
    11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.
    12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;

    I think that is what thanksgiving in these verses means. Not only are we to thank God, but we are to thank the thiving thing that gave it’s life for our sustinance. Our modern mass production of products and food does neither of these things. It seperates us from nature and prevents a close bond with the creations of our Father.

  11. Oxford English Dictionary:
    agriculture = The science and art of cultivating the soil; including the allied pursuits of gathering in the crops and rearing live stock; tillage, husbandry, farming (in the widest sense).

    Part of proper agriculture is the cultivation of the right kinds of crops for both animal and human consumption.

    My above comment wherein I mention permaculture is, in my study, the best model for re-establishing Edenic lifestyle prior to the Millennium. The model essentially focuses on investing in the proper environment at the start — and then letting the plants and animals you have do their natural thing. When I think of traditional agriculture, I think of man exerting his influence on the ground to make one kind of crop grow in tight little efficient rows — lest there be any confusion of terms, this is what I am demonizing — not the growing of plants for food.

    So with this method, one would spend no money on food after the initial costs of developing the soil, planting the fruit and nut trees, grape vines, berries, and vegetable seeds. Then, the environment you set-up would produce the freshest, most vibrant, and toxin-free food for free. All you have to do is love the plants and pick the increase.

    Permaculture design like the one outlined in the links I mentioned above, combined with wild food foraging, is the way of human survival and optimal health.

  12. Okay thanks for clarifying. See I was thinking about permaculture and agro-forestry when I read this. That to me is what God meant when he told Adam and Eve to dress the garden. So looks like we are on the same page. It is beautiful isnt it, to imagine, hope, pray, plan and work for Zion and this restoration of paradise?

  13. Justin,
    Am I too assume that the rest of the post isn’t generated comments because people agree with it?

    I would say pretty much yes but a little no.
    First of all I like what you see. As I gaze upon it is a nice scene, but then suddenly that Sears tower is in there. Even if covered in vines my mind says, “What the heck, who let that in here?”
    Granted there will be ruins. But we are not going to be weak or separated as we imagine the Neolithic people. I say weak but only in that they were small bands. We will have the ability to change our environment. They might not have had do that. Things in their natural state don’t need much changing. But we in a post Babylonian world will be doing a lot of clean up for our own sake. There will be great changes before and at the coming of Christ. Perhaps the majority of the destruction of the Babylonian world will come at their own hands. But even if after all the wars are over something like the Sears tower is left standing I personally would want it torn down. Would I make some C4 to get the job done? I don’t think so. I think the priesthood could be used nicely for such a project.
    And that brings up another divergence. This is from a near death experience here.

    I inquired as to where the world would be going in an optimistic future one where some of the changes they desired were to take place. The image of the future that they gave me then, and it was their image, not one that I created, surprised me.
    My image had previously been sort of like Star Wars, where everything was space age, plastics, and technology. The future that they showed me was almost no technology at all.
    What everybody, absolutely everybody, in this euphoric future spent most of their time doing was raising children. The chief concern of people was children, and everybody considered children to be the most precious commodity in the world. And when a person became an adult, there was no sense of anxiety, nor hatred, nor competition. There was this enormous sense of trust and mutual respect.
    If a person, in this view of the future, became disturbed, then the community of people all cared about the disturbed person falling away from the harmony of the group. Spiritually, through prayer and love, the others would elevate the afflicted person.
    What people did with the rest of their time was that they gardened, with almost no physical effort. They showed me that plants, with prayer, would produce huge fruits and vegetables. People, in unison, could control the climate of the planet through prayer. Everybody would work with mutual trust and the people would call the rain, when needed, and the sun to shine. Animals lived with people, in harmony.
    People, in this best of all worlds, weren’t interested in knowledge; they were interested in wisdom. This was because they were in a position where anything they needed to know, in the knowledge category, they could receive simply through prayer. Everything, to them, was solvable. They could do anything they wanted to do.
    In this future, people had no wanderlust, because they could, spiritually, communicate with everyone else in the world. There was no need to go elsewhere. They were so engrossed with where they were and the people around them that they didn’t have to go on vacation. Vacation from what? They were completely fulfilled and happy.

    You can see that these people are living by power faith. This is the millennium I see.
    Now maybe your post is not referring to a time that far ahead. But I hope (could be wrong) that as Babylon falls we will not be left to sort things out the way we always have. I believe there are many who come back with Joseph and they will teach us the way to do these things.
    But yeah obviously I am making changes in my view of agriculture. So thank you very much for the enlightenment. Your reference to permaculture rings sweet and true. I have been gardening for years and the idea of pesticides and the molly coddling you need to do for some plants just never made sense to me. I could see there were wild plants which produced fruit with very little care and no babying. Why not have the whole be that way. I will read it with gusto and apply it to the land I plan to buy.
    Now on a very practical note how do you reconcile the “wheat for man” phrase in D&C 89? I won’t be hard to convert. Since moving to this tropical climate I have experienced a natural shift away from wheat to more fruits that grow here.

  14. dyc I agree that there will need to be tons of clean up. We often think that during the millenium we will all be busy doing work in the temple. But I think a good portion of our time will be spent cleaning up the mess we’ve made of this planet.

    I like your comment about the tropics. Haveing spent a great deal of time in the Philippines I can was amazed by the ability to grow stuff there. I wonder if tropical areas were exempt from the spontanious weeds replacing spontanious fruits and flowers curse. I remember walking past a corn feild almost every day. I could see, each day, the growth of the corn. I earth can do amazing things, we just have to get our act together.

    Another thing that has interested me is edible weeds. There are many weeds that have great nutritional value. Rather than trying to kill them because they make our lawn look ugly, why not use them for food?

  15. dyc4557,

    You have managed to coax a very long comment out of me with your question about wheat.

    There’s a lot that I don’t understand about healthy eating. I know that the Lord has indicated in D&C 89 that wheat is good for humans and that meat should be eaten sparingly. However, evidence indicates that humans developed the way we did because we starting eating animal fat. It fueled our cells and was responsible for enlarging our brains. We designed tools to assist us in the procuring and processing of meat. Meat tastes good to us. It provides essential nutrients and vitamins. When properly sourced, it is a crucial element in a proper human diet.

    Also, Americans are eating more grains today than we have in the last 10,000 years. Fast-rising yeasts are used instead of longer fermenting strains that pre-digest the anti-nutritive compounds in wheat. Grain recipes 100 years ago called for the soaking of wheat to make it more digestible. High-yielding strains of wheat were developed 50 years ago — which also coincides with a reduction of the mineral content in whole wheat. Most soy and grains today are genetically-modified to handle higher levels of pesticides. Bromides and chlorides are used to process wheat – these lead to autoimmunity, thyroid disorder, sterility, and depletion of minerals.

    Also, it’s a total misconception that a Paleolithic-based diet is a meat-heavy diet. The Paleo diet recognizes the unique place of meat in our evolution and its power to nourish and heal the body. However, one need not consume any more meat than the average American already does. In fact, it can include less. Some days I don’t eat any meat, I eat fish or the remnants of meat cooked the day before in the form of stock, rendered fat, or organs. Ancient humans ate meat when they could, but they probably also would have had meatless days. You really don’t need that much protein – in fact, for men, a 2:1 ratio of carbohydrates-to-protein is optimal for sperm production and fertility – though you do need more than the raw/vegans would have you believe.

    This is fine because there are probably hundreds of vegetables, fruits, and nuts that one can draw on to make delicious meals free from stomach-irritating grains. Further, one chicken can became many meals by saving the leftover fat and then make stock with the bones. It’s a good example of how thrifty a tribal group of people can be.

    How do I balance emphasis on meat with sustainable agriculture and the Word of Wisdom? Well, I know that agriculture experts have begun to recognize that locally raised, pastured meat is much more sustainable than some quinoa grown with oil-based fertilizer in another country or some factory processed soy-based food. Very few experts in agriculture are vegans – and most people promoting plant based diets as “green” have a degree in English and not much common agrarian sense.

    Instead of grains that leach vitamins and minerals from your over-all diet – a Paleolithic-based diet is filling, delicious, and the vitamins and minerals are more bioavailable because they are consumed with fat. A rule of thumb I believe in with respect to eating vegetables is – always a 1:1 or more ratio of fat to plants.

    I think that when we talk in terms of meat and grains with respect to the Word of Wisdom – the question should be asked, “Which meat?” and “Which wheat?” There exists a world of difference between industrially produced animal products and grass-fed or pastured products. Likewise, the wheat available in products at your grocery store is an unrecognizable modification compared to what wheat and other grains were originally like in nature. Again, the best approach is to think about your food in terms of a tribal mind-set and in terms of selecting real food over industrial food.

    Zo-ma-rah:
    Concerning edible weeds: This site has some good pictures of the kinds of weeds that grow wildly and are good for food.

  16. Also,

    I responded to hell raising Love monster’s comment [the first one on this post] on the Tribal Relationships post because I felt it better served the discussion there.

  17. My thoughts on the wheat/grains: instead of focusing on our screwed up westernized system (as Justin noted), why not focus on how we can turn them into something naturally good for the body? Like juicing and sprouting. That’s probably the best place to start as it’ll rather quickly solve your phytic acid (and a whole host of others) issue.

    I’m not anti-hunting (even though the modern notion is probably not inspired any more than the current industrialized economy is), but I’m not seeing a viable hunter/gatherer lifestyle wherein everyone hunts for the good of the group. Whether we define agriculture according to whatever definition Oxford is putting out these days, or what Webster was putting out in 1828, if we don’t get back to what God wants we’ll be nowhere in a hurry. And that, methinks, is more important that rigidly advocating one side or the other. If a light or three can be shed on the ignorance we hold as a culture and society in regards to our civilization (including all health aspects – food, medical, exercise, etc), then we our “stakes” of what can or can’t be done with regards to a Zion society will hopefully be removed.

    If Zomarah wants to raise crops according to how God dictates to him, let it be. If dyc wants to find a plot of land, have various sources of food available to him and “cultivate” the land in a way he feels is in the Spirit of the land, let it be. I don’t think that God is a God of absolute’s in this realm and what’s good for all of you, may not be good for me and vice versa.

    Just because something happened historically doesn’t make it correct or Spirit-condoned (though that something may be). Just because I have natural tendencies to do this, that or the other doesn’t make these tendencies inspired (though they may be). Just because Groc liked to kick it with all the women of the tribe, and so did all the women, doesn’t make them divinely justified (though they may have been). Just because Groc liked to hunt and eat lots of animals doesn’t make him spiritually saintified (yes, that should read saintified) (though he may have been). A study of the past may yield information on how that past operated as a collective and individual body, but that study in and of itself doesn’t relate to how God may have preferred that society to function. All societies – with the notable exception of Enoch’s rather silent (information wise) society – have a number of issues that may or may not be inspired. This probably goes without saying, but may be worth mentioning.

    “We abuse land because we regard it as a commodity belonging to us. When we see land as a community to which we belong, we may begin to use it with love and respect.” – Aldo Leopold.

    The “absolutes” in this life are really quite small in number (by my count). Very small in number. The rest, in my opinion, is rightly left up to us to decide. We have agency to act as we’re so inspired and, if we’re not inspired either way, we act according to our conscience – be that collective or individual. If we want a life that’s governed by restrictions and “commandments,” then we can choose to live that way. If we want a life that’s governed by “commendments” and open direction, we can choose to live that way.

    I think, in the future, we’ll all look back on our days in this society as days of plenty, even if they were governed by far more screw-ups than not (with regards to our industrialized society). Before long we may very well trend back to tribal support systems where the luxury of throwing away 50% of dinner is no longer looked at as tolerable. That’s a reality we may all face. With that in mind, education is paramount, but only so far as it applies to you. What’s good for me (body and health wise) may in no way apply to you. What heals or hurts me, may do neither to you. If I choose to drink raw goat’s milk every day, for example, in spite of the recognized medical “facts” noting it’s nefarious evils (as erroneous or monetarily influenced as they may be), while you choose to pasteurize your Meatrix version of a rBGH-laced cows milk because you’re sold that it’s the safest and best way, good on ya. And, still, if you see life as something where man is wrong for drinking another mammal’s milk, even better. Let me live how I want to live and feel guided to do so, and I’ll heartily do the same for you.

    That’s the world I see. 😉

  18. Tom, my main thesis is that the closer humanity returns to living according to our Nature, the happier and more “Spirit-condoned” we will be. Do you agree with this?

    Let me live how I want to live and feel guided to do so, and I’ll heartily do the same for you.

    I love it. The only problem is the Luciferian control systems have so enervated our world that many people are without agency. “Choosing” to drink Meatrix version of a rBGH-laced cow’s milk because you’re sold that it’s the safest and best way is not “good on ya” if you don’t know what milk, by Nature, is like. Would you not agree that for most people there is no choice? They are merely living out the program, merely responding to cause and effect, accepting what’s in front of them.

    For example, with marriage, we see both the state and the Church(TM) lord over people with their licenses and regulations. With food, the state outlaws raw milk [as you mentioned], etc.

    In the world I see, these walls and controls are torn down. The mistake we made in urbanizing and industrializing our lives will be reversed — and it is thus that Eden will be restored. I do not believe that paradise will come so long as humans are pasteurizing millions of gallons of rBGH-laced milk produced from factories of cloned cows leaching puss thru their utters because of severe mastitis — whether or not someone wants to “choose” to drink that as the safest and best way to consume milk.

    Also, found this also — thought it applied.

  19. Justin:

    First off: I understand your thesis, but don’t take that to assume that your definition of “getting back to nature” is the end-all or be-all (not saying you are). Second: regardless of whether I agree with that definition, it’s not my place to force people to act any way, no matter the issue.

    I’m looking strictly at the words your using as I can neither hear the inflections in your voice nor the facial expressions you’d use to speak them, and I’m left reading something that doesn’t speak to me, personally. Having been raised by a father who spent his entire life in the dairy industry, with two brothers who’ve likewise toiled in the same industry and myself through high school and college, I’m well aware of the issues of mass produced milk. That is why I purposefully used the term “meatrix”. It’s a simple way for many to understand where I’m coming from if they but desire to do a simple search of the term.

    However, I will never “tear down” nor “control” someone else and what they want to do. I have spent countless hours debating the benefits of raw milk from local grass fed cows with numerous acquaintances, especially as compared to the milk you described, but I will never force them to follow what I say or believe what I say. I will not control them, because my control is no better than any other. I will try and use reason and persuasion, and let them govern themselves. If, when presented with the facts **as I see them**, they choose another route, then I’m OK with it and “good on them.”

    One issue I see with your treatise is that it assumes that everyone will choose your way once you get done tearing down the system’s walls and controls, as if the tearing down will remove ignorance, apathy, indifference or a differing point of view. The room for others to choose a different (and perhaps better, if only for them) way is nowhere present in the discussion. Where you suggest that the vast majority of people in this world are “merely living out the program, merely responding to cause and effect, accepting what’s in front of them,” I’d counter by saying you and I not that much different. Most people, no matter their geographical location, simply won’t acknowledge that they have a choice and most probably wouldn’t care even if they did. They’d continue shopping at Wal*Mart or the corner gas station and continue buying their chemically enhanced, GMO foods. As I said: good for them. It is their life to lead. Let them lead it as they choose. For the most part, they (and us) are ignorant of far more than we’re not. My responsibility lies with what I choose to believe when I’m confronted with facts or ideas that diverge from what I initially believed.

    Personally, I seek out divergent aspects of my belief system, but that is a choice I make consciously and am aware of the trouble that causes me. Intimately aware of it. Perhaps there’s a hope that in my next life I’ll find a lot that’s closer to Zion, but the template won’t be much different: that of choice and agency.

    http://www.meridianmagazine.com/article/6523?ac=1

    Lastly, did Enoch establish Zion by forcing people to come to listen to him, by tearing down the walls and controls of the society where they lived? Or, did he point out the things he disagreed with in society and thereby invited people to a different way of life? Or, did the Spirit, through him, engage people beyond their apathy and indifference such that they started making more individual decisions that led to something better?

    Paradise might not come “so long as humans are pasteurizing … ,” but I don’t really see it coming by either force or control. If we take away agency – including the agency for people to royally screw up and make mistakes we simply cannot stomach – then we’re left with a system that’s really no different than what we have in place today around the globe. And that, by our mere existence in this sphere, is nothing less than hell. A hell I personally want nothing of.

  20. I do not think that I have advocated force or control. Reading the posts on this site is a voluntary act — and it is my desire to tell people [by persuasion as it were] about the things I’ve come to believe to be the route back to the full potential of human nature.

    And while I feel like you are disagreeing with me [and thus I feel like I need to defend myself more] — because I can “neither hear the inflections in your voice nor the facial expressions you’d use to speak them” — I can’t help but agree with what your said: “Paradise might not come “so long as humans are pasteurizing … ,” but I don’t really see it coming by either force or control.” Amen.

    So what are we to do considering that paradise won’t come so long as humans are living contrary to what God has designed — yet it likewise won’t come thru means of tearing down the walls and controls that Lucifer has built up. I see my ideas of “returning to Nature” as a way people can “cheerfully do all things” to bring about the purposes of God — something I plan to post about in the near future.

  21. Also Tom,

    As time passed by after I posted this comment, I had the thought that I should thank you for participating in this conversation. This is something that I am very passionate about because I have learned about how many of the “control systems” that I talk about were actually originated by Satan for the purpose of killing humans. Thus, I can get quite defensive when I feel like people are speaking in favor of these things.

    I hope that I do not come across as though I am against you in this thing.

    Thanks again. BTW, if no one has read Tom’s series on Church Finance, then I suggest that they do so — it is an important read.

  22. From the site HuntGatherLove — the author’s new post is titled Anarchist Horticulture. It was right up my alley — here is an excerpt:

    This is particularly relevant to this blog because these tribes developed an agricultural system that helped them resist the state and provided them greater health then their governed counterparts.

    It’s interesting because when I first started studying agricultural economics, we were told how horribly backwards a “shifting cultivation” AKA slash and burn agricultural system was. We were told that agencies and governments should make an effort to replace it with settled agriculture.

    From an anthropological standpoint, shifting cultivation is really a form of horticulture rather than agriculture. The difference is that horticulture involves many shifting plots of varied crops rather than the land-ownership settled field monocultures that are characteristic of agriculture. There are other differences. Gene Expression recently had an excellent post on the social implications of plough vs. hoe agriculture. Horticulture generally involves hoes.

  23. I really loved that post too. (The one Justin linked to) Some great info.

  24. Someone on that post commented that:

    Wow, I’ve never seen anarchy in this light before – never considered that what I believe to be the perfect lifestyle is in fact anarchy. Or is it? Don’t all human societies have to have rules and systems of control?

    I replied:

    Anarchy doesn’t mean without rules — an+archy means without rulers. People are quite capable of governing themselves. Just think about all the social interactions of your life — there are not “rules” that govern them. Yet, everyone does fine.

    The post’s author noted something interesting that the book her post was about [Art of Not Being Governed: An Anarchist History of Upland Southeast Asia] had mentioned, but that she did not include in the post:

    Yes, many colonialists in this region had trouble dealing with these tribes because they had no chiefs. Sometimes they appointed them, but as soon as the colonialists weren’t around, the tribes would kill or depose these made-up chiefs. However, they do have rules — sometimes fairly elaborate systems of taboos for example.

    This made me think of LDSA’s comment about the formation of tribes offering protection from criminal gangs. Outsiders will always have trouble dealing with tribes.

  25. Read this post today on the negative effects that sedentary agriculture has had on humanity. Below is a summation:

    Many people have this image of the rise of agriculture and the dawn of modern civilization, and they just assume that a more stable food source makes you healthier. But early agriculturalists experienced nutritional deficiencies and had a harder time adapting to stress, probably because they became dependent on particular food crops, rather than having a more significantly diverse diet.

    The growth in population density spurred by agriculture settlements led to an increase in infectious diseases, likely exacerbated by problems of sanitation and the proximity to domesticated animals and other novel disease factors.

    Culturally, we’re agricultural chauvinists. We tend to think that producing food is always beneficial, but the picture is much more complex than that. Humans paid a heavy biological cost for agriculture, especially when it came to the variety of nutrients. Even now, about 60 percent of our calories come from corn, rice, and wheat. [I’ll add that the same is true for the beef, pork, and poultry we produce — probably close to 80% of their diet is just corn and soybean meal].

    The way the human body adapted to changes we made in the environment 10,000 years ago could help us understand how our bodies are adapting now.

    Some economists and other scientists are using the rapid physiological increases in human stature during the 20th century as a key indicator of better health.

    But it’s important to consider what exactly “good health” means. The modernization and commercialization of food may be helping us by providing more calories, but those calories may not be good for us. You need calories to grow bones long, but you need nutrients to grow bones strong.

    Most Americans, even if they look “over-nourished,” are actually quite vitamin, essential fatty-acid, and mineral deficient. The standard approach to weight in this country today is that malnourishment is fine so long as you lose weight.

    Food consumption isn’t a moral issue. It’s not that some foods are morally good while others evil. Even stuff like high-fructose corn syrup isn’t evil. Inanimate objects cannot be evil. Demonizing, guilting, and self-punishment should not be part of a rational diet.

    Some foods are bad for you though. You should educate yourself about them and avoid them as best as you can. You should acknowledge that it will be hard and might take time to learn how to exclude things like gluten and processed sugar — the main agents of the Neolithic “diseases of civilization”.

    In the end, you shouldn’t be afraid to love food and enjoy it often. Luckily, unlike a low-fat/vegan diet, a paleo diet actually includes foods that are delicious — and not just as the sometimes/cheat foods.

    But I’ve received criticism that a paleo diet excludes all the “normal” food — but I guess that really depends on how you’re defining “normal”.

    In my view a paleo perspective on food is refreshing because it’s about the food, not counting calories [read Good Calories, Bad Calories if you still have the calories-in-calories-out approach to diet], or adding up points, or some struggle to eat based on fat-restriction or semi-religious guidelines.

    I could ramble on further I guess — but won’t.


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