The Tribal Church


Rebecca [from the-exponent blog] once asked me:

In your ideal world, I’d assume there is no church outside of the family unit.  Is this the primary appeal of anarchy within the LDS context for you?

It is evidence of the “Catholic-ization” of the LDS church that members refer to the leadership in Salt Lake as “the Church” – as opposed to the group of believers that meet together.  Like the Catholics – I often hear LDS refer to “What the Church has said” about such-and-such or what “Our leaders haven’t taken a position” on such-and-such.  LDS will speak of “the Church” as if it is some entity completely removed and separate from the members.  Where was there ever a body without parts?  The church is the people who make it up.

The church is a tribe; your tribe is the church:

As LDSA outlined in the Wives, follow your husbands! – Patriarchy, androcracy and the egalitarian tribe post:

Because of the gospel’s tribal nature, the organization of the priesthood mimics that of the egalitarian tribe.  Bishops, bishoprics, counselors, common judges, higher judges, lower judges, high councils, presidencies, apostles, seventies, quorums, etc., all have their counterpart in egalitarian tribal organization.

The principle described here is entirely correct.  What most LDS understand as the church structure is actually a tribal structure.  Currently, the Gentile Mormon church uses the structure of wards and stakes with presiding bishops and presidents over congregations and quorums – however this is a mere copy [an incomplete/improper copy] of the tribal structure in which the gospel is designed to be lived — a structure of clans and tribes with presiding husbands and tribal elders.

This is seen as LDS refer to their local congregation as the “ward family”, their fellow-members as “brother” and “sister” so-and-so, etc.  This is also why even official Church™ policy is to acknowledge [in word at least – though not in deed], that the family is the central unit in the gospel of Jesus Christ, with the Church being only an appendage.

Therefore, the priesthood holder in the home is the central priesthood leader – and the church priesthood holders are appendage leaders – in other words they are secondary as compared to a woman’s husband.

Much of what is wrong in the LDS church originates with wives not considering their husbands to be their priesthood/church leader – which itself originates with the Church™.

In the eyes of the Church™, the husband is not a priesthood leader with keys – only a quorum member without keys.  Leaders have keys, and members do not.  Because, in the eyes of the Church™, husbands do not have keys – they could not leaders.  Quorum members report directly to quorum leaders, and as a quorum member, the husband is an agent of his quorum president.

This view is then passed on to the wife, so that when a wife thinks of a priesthood leader, she will think of someone who holds keys, such as a bishop or stake president.  Thus, it becomes that in the eyes of a wife, her husband is subordinate to the priesthood leaders found in the Church™.

This is why we find wives by-passing their husbands and going behind his back to a bishop or stake president [see comment #87 and #102 here].  Any LDS wife who does view her husband as her priesthood leader typically does so insofar as the husband is following the direction of the Church™ leaders.  An easy way to discern this is to have the husband do something different than what the church leaders council him to do [like baptize children or administer the sacrament without a bishop’s approval].  Then the wife’s true loyalties will manifest and she will likely side with the Church™ authority.  Only when there is conflict between a Church™ leader with “keys” and a husband without them can it be seen who a wife really believes her church leader to be.

The Church™ is actually a religion:

What most LDS refer to as “the Church” is, therefore, not actually a church at all [it not being bound by covenant bonds between members].  It is a religion.  When seen from the tribal point-of-view [where church = tribe], the church is an entirely new people-group, nation, or tribe separate from any of the nations or tribes of the earth – the church of Jesus Christ being the tribes of Israel.  A tribe is merely a form a human organization that is based on two features:   kinship and shared belief.  Where these two things exist, there exits a tribe.  Where one or both of these things lack, there is no tribe.

Currently, in the LDS church, we have shared beliefs, but not kinship.  We may call others in our “ward family” by the names “brother” or “sister” so-and-so, and we may tend to all be of the same tribe [that of Ephraim] – but most members will view their blood family [kinship] as distinct from other LDS.

The purpose of the restoration of the gospel in the latter-days was to convert a diverse assortment of people [from every nation, tribe, and people-group] into a new kind of people.  The vision is a tribe, united under the bonds of a new and everlasting covenant, and restored to the ancient Hebrew notion of a holy nation/separate people-group.  No matter what the former culture was, any converts are adopted into a new family – formed on the basis tribal covenant bonds and shared beliefs.  Status in this group is not determined be virtue of what you believe or how many people you could tell what to do – but instead by the covenants a person has assumed and how many people you serve.

Without both kinship bonds and shared beliefs, we are not fully organized as the Lord’s tribes of Israel.  Groups that are bound by only shared belief are referred to as “religions”.  When Adam was praying, after having been removed from the Garden of Eden, there entered the god of this world in answer to his prayer:

So, you want religion, do you?

Religion is what Satan has been offering as a substitute for tribal relationships with our Heavenly Parents, Jesus Christ, and our fellowman since the beginning.  It is religion and the associated creeds that have prevented humans from coming to Jesus and the Father individually – instead forcing people to jump thru hoops, observances, rituals, classes, advancements, programs, etc.  Satan will always give a people religion, and it will be largely based in the left-brain-mind, professing God with the mouth [the left-brain-mind words] but having [right-brain-] hearts is far from Him.

A religion is just a branded belief.  Two people can be of different religions – and still be of the same nationality, work for the same companies, belong to the same social groups, etc.  There is nothing really distinct between the two, other than what they are doing for a few hours on Sunday.

The LDS church has taken direct action to remove any of the original elements of being a separate tribe/people-group, which are an impediment to popular acceptance.  Distinctions are minimized to remove any conflict between LDS and the state they reside in.  Any commitment to public relations will cause any movement, idea, or product to become less distinct – to boil down further and further, trying to find a least common-denominator and mass appeal/acceptance.  This is the story of Correlation™ and it has been handled in detail elsewhere.

Joseph Smith said that he:

cannot believe in any of the creeds of the different denominations [religions], because they all have some things in them I cannot subscribe to, though all of them have some truth.  I want to come up into the presence of God, and learn all things; but the creeds set up stakes, and say, ‘Hitherto shalt thou come, and no further’; which I cannot subscribe to.

Establishing an institution with orthodoxy and checklists – and then requiring uniformity of belief/thought in order to belong to the orthodox religion is the way of the Christians.  They are bound together not by tribal family bonds but instead by their confessions of faith and their creeds.

If we really want to come up “into the presence of God, and learn all things,” then we’d be wise to seek out and avoid the creeds of religions that “set up stakes” and demand that we “come no further.”

Within such an institution, one will find that if he/she:

wants to have the manifestations of the spirit in the place where I go to church, then I had better go to a church where we share all things in common… When you attend a church which spends $3 billion on building a shopping/commercial center right close to the temple and exactly $[zero] on implementing the law of consecration, I would hazard a guess that the odds are pretty close to 3 billion-to-zero that an abundance of the gifts of the spirit are [not] going to [be] in that church.

So now you may say well there isn’t any church or group that lives with all things in common.  How about forming your tribal organization and getting on with living that way?  That is what I am going to do.

I want to live the full gospel of Jesus Christ. I am going to start by having all things in common in my tribe so I can claim the blessings God has offered to those who obey the law given for that blessing.

Truly, one can not do this within the LDS church.  Such blessings are found only in communal worship that adheres to the word of God, the spirit of expediency, and the law of common consent.  Currently, this can only be achieved within tribal organizations.

Two ways to grow your tribe:

The discussion on plural marriage at Wheat and Tares taught me that most LDS will consider any discussion on organizing multihusband-multiwife tribes as “communes for unbridled secret sex at night.”

However, a tribe is merely a form a human organization based on two features:   kinship and shared belief.  This is the earliest form of human community – predating cities, states, churches, and even recorded history.  Tribal affiliations exist naturally among humans – when states don’t exist to break them up.  God does not look upon an individual as an isolated creation, all alone.  He sees people as they are connected to everyone else.  He sees all the tribal bonds and recognizes the tribal affiliations – even if we ourselves are not even aware of them or allow their functions to remain dormant.

God and the gospel are tribal in nature – always working to connect humans together into His tribe [which is composed of the tribes of Israel].  Our lineage is plainly manifest to Him and so when we begin to act tribally, He recognizes the tribal authority because it has been there all along, among the other conventional things we place upon it [e.g. political affiliations culture, religion].  All that is necessary for us to obtain tribal authority is to exercise it.  If we just need to assert it, God will recognize/validate it because it really is there and has been there all along.  We just haven’t been aware of it or acknowledged it.

The steward of a tribe is free to grow/enlarge his tribe or allow it to stay dormant.  While I intertwine multihusband-multiwife marriage systems together with my tribal understanding of the gospel, there are functions of tribalism that can be activated currently with a one-husband:one-wife tribe. Tribal plural marriage is simply the means whereby a tribe grows or is enlarged horizontally.  In like manner, having children is the means whereby a tribe grows or is enlarged vertically.

Growing horizontally:

Tribes are grown horizontally as new adult members are converted and desire to join.  As tribes must be bound by both kinship and shared belief, once conversion to the gospel takes place [shared belief], he/she must then be married into the tribe [kinship] as a part of the other entrance ordinances, e.g. baptism.

Growing horizontally is a function of tribal missionary work.  This has been discussed in the comments of dyc4557’s CHI #5 post.  Currently, LDS missionary work is comprised of sending never married, non-father elders into the mission field – following the pattern of the celibate, Catholic priesthood.  These celibate elders are sent by an “across the board” calling of all 19 year-old young men – instead of having any elder with the desire to travel, and calling of the Spirit to preach the gospel, approach their bishops to obtain license to do so by church vote.

In the comments on that post, LDSA touches on some principles for initiating the preaching of the gospel from a tribal point-of-view.  Briefly, they include:

  • A married man with children having an advantage over a never-married, non-father young man with regards to relating to families [husbands, wives, fathers, and mothers].
  • Distraction not being an issue when a person goes on a preaching mission only when he has a desire to go and feels called to do so by the Spirit.
  • Leaving the length of a traveling mission open, instead of a fixed two-years, so that the Spirit can have flexibility in keeping a man in the mission field for short or long time periods.
  • Utilizing all married men within a tribe [the priests, bishops, elders, seventy, apostles, high priests, and patriarchs], who are under the same commandment to travel and preach when their circumstances allow, to open up a larger pool from which to fill a mission field.
  • Multihusband-multiwife tribes having less of a burden with traveling missionary work because when husbands leave to preach, wives and children will be taken care of by the tribe or other husbands.
  • Not leaving converts [harvest] in the care of others who, hopefully, will take care of them – instead, either sending these people back to the tribe or, after the mission is complete, returning with them to the tribe, so that tribal integration can be complete.
  • Marrying converts while still in the mission field so that, while there, a tribal missionary will have new tribal members to support him, giving him food, drink, clothing, shelter, and a family love and environment – fulfilling the commandment to travel with purse or scrip.  Also – retaining and building on the connection that a missionary makes with the converts he or she has taught.

Growing a tribe horizontally is essentially founded on multihusband-multiwife plural marriages.  It is this aspect that would likely make converting non-LDS into a tribe easier than converting LDS.  Many LDS come with cultural indoctrination [as both Americans and Mormons] that state-sanctioned monogamy is superior to any other form of marriage.  Polygyny is either valid insofar as it is state-sanctioned and First Presidency™-approved or was valid in the mid/late 19th century but is now just a relic of a less-enlightened time gone by.  Polyandry is completely unheard of or considered and makes a mockery of God’s ordered system of paternity [which is why most LDS will always use “polygamy” when they really mean “polygyny” – polyandry not even being a consideration for them].

Monogamy is not sin.  If one spouse [or both] has emotional needs that necessitate him/her requiring a spouse to commit to not loving any other people, then [if the other spouse is willing to submit to that] they may take vows of exclusivity upon themselves. These vows are ordained of God, as long as both persons consent, and are in accordance with the new and everlasting covenant revealed in D&C 132.  As I stated previously, there are functions of tribalism that can be activated currently with a one-husband:one-wife tribe – however such a tribe will be limited horizontally.

Polygyny is not sin given that a woman gives her consent to the husband to take additional wives [releasing him from any vows of exclusivity he may have been under] – he is justified in taking on additional wives, for it is marriage with consent and thus a marriage ordained of God.

Polyandry is not sin.  In the new and everlasting covenant, there are two ways in which a woman get take an additional husband:

Outside of the new and everlasting covenant, a woman [in the same manner as stated in the polygyny section] may obtain a second marriage thru the consent of her current husband or husbands.  This [like polygyny] is ordained of God insofar as all parties involved give consent.

Not giving consent to marry is the sin. When a man wishes to take an additional wife and his current wife or wives do not give their consent [which are the keys of this power], then they become sinners because they are forbidding him from marrying, making them not ordained of God.  Likewise, were a woman to desire an additional husband and her current husband or husbands do not give consent, then the husbands become sinners by virtue of forbidding her to marry.

This is the law of Sarah [in the new and everlasting covenant of marriage] and it is applicable to both men and women. “Wrongness” consists in forbidding marriage, which makes the person doing the forbidding not ordained of God – whether the forbidder is the state, the Church™, parents, or a spouse.

Growing vertically:

Tribes can also grow vertically.  This is done as married couples come together via sexual intercourse and provide physical life to children.  The two methods [horizontal and vertical] are related.  Just as parents are capable of loving more than one child with all of their heart – spouses are capable of loving more than one spouse with all of their heart.  Just as parents are commanded to have as many children as possible, not forbidding any spirits from entering their family – spouses ought to seek as many additionally spouses as possible, never forbidding one another from loving other people.

The Lord has commanded parents to be fruitful and multiply:

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.  And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it:

The secret combinations of central planners all establish two children per woman as their goal.  They have achieved this goal in the countries referred to as “developed”, and they are approaching success on a global scale.  The reason being that two children [replacement reproduction] breaks the commandment to multiply and “fill” the earth with humans – only replacing the two parents with two children.  The scriptural minimum for the number of children per family would therefore be three, with there being no associated maximum.

They have used various tools to achieve their satanic goal.  One need only search [population control eugenics] in a search engine to find plenty of resources on the subject.  To be brief, they would include:  barrier and hormonal methods of birth control, drugged hospital birthing experiences, circumcision, bottle-feeding, abortion, vasectomies and elective hysterectomies, focusing on “equal” employment for women, reducing sperm counts thru administered chemicals and diet, and sterilants in food/vaccines/water/etc.

A tribe based on the gospel of Jesus Christ will never restrict themselves to a set number of children – utilizing hormonal, barrier, or surgical forms of birth control thereafter.  They will not plan their number of children around their desired lifestyle, but will plan a lifestyle around the number of children they have.  They shall also teach their children to pray, and to walk uprightly before the Lord.  They will teach their children to read and write, having a language which is pure and undefiled.  They will teach their children diligently and freely to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism, and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands – before the age of eight [lest the sin be upon their heads and it be the cause of their affliction].  Then shall their children be baptized for the remission of sins when eight years old, and receive the laying on of the hands.  They will engage in continual tribal rituals to strengthen the common morphic field that exists among disciples of Jesus Christ.

Next Article by Justin: The Will of God and Faith

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Teachings on hell and the spirit world


The following is some of what I recently taught my wife and daughter about hell.  For the most part it is a re-hash of things I had learned previously, but it does contain a couple of new concepts (new to me, at least), so I’m putting it on this blog.

The spirit world is the Earth’s spirit

When we speak of the spirit world, we are not speaking of a different planet made of spirit matter, but of the spirit body of our planet Earth. Latter-day saints are taught that “the spirit world is here” because the Earth’s spirit is still attached to its physical body, just as mortal, human spirits are connected to their physical bodies. The Earth’s spirit body, like all spirit bodies, conforms to the configuration of the physical elements that make up its physical body.

How the physical world is configured

The Earth’s physical body (the physical world) is a hollow, spherical shell that has north and south polar openings. The shell has inner and outer surfaces which meet at these two openings. At the exact center of the hollow is another spherical object, which is also a hollow shell that has its own polar openings, but much smaller in diameter than the larger shell that surrounds it. The smaller shell discharges plasma in glow mode, like an inner sun.

In appearance, the Earth is constructed as “a tree yielding fruit, whose seed is in itself”. When the Earth is stacked with other planets, a plasma column connects the planets through their poles, creating a visual display that looks like a tree. The “seed” of this “tree” is the small hollow shell found at the exact center of the larger hollow sphere.

Men live and walk upon the outer surface of the larger shell. They also walk upon the inner surface. Gravity (the Earth’s spirit) pushes all matter towards a point between the two surfaces of the shell. (Everything in the Universe is a push; there is no such thing as a pull.) So, a man walking on the outside of the shell will be pushed inward towards the inner surface; and a man walking on the inner surface of the shell will be pushed outward towards the outer surface. To each of these men, gravity is pushing them “down” even though “down” is in opposite directions for them. Almost all of the physical matter of the Earth is found within the larger shell and this is where most of the gravity is concentrated.

Above each surface side (inner and outer) there is an atmosphere, in which man and other creatures can live and breath. The atmosphere extends upward only to a certain distance. Above that, we find the apparent vacuum of space. In the case of the outer surface, this vacuum is called by us “outer space,” but in the case of the inner surface, the vacuum of space above their heads, it being above the atmosphere, might be termed “inner space.”

The inner sun is held in the very center of the inner space vacuum by gravitation. It is pushed equally in all directions towards the outer shell and thus is held stationary (or fixed) in the center of the hollow of the larger shell. However, just as the outer shell rotates or spins, so does the inner shell, though at a different rate.

To men living on the inner surface of the outer shell, the inner sun appears to be roughly similar in size to how the outer Sun appears to the men living on the outer surface. The outer Sun is exceedingly large, hot and radiant, yet very distant, and so appears kind of small to people on the outside of Earth, whereas the inner sun is miniscule by comparison, but fairly close to the inner surface; and so the inner and outer Suns appear to approximate each other in size.

The inner sun is not as brilliant or as hot as the outer Sun, so that the inner surface of the Earth’s larger shell is not scorched with heat and radiation, but is bathed in amounts conducive to human life.

Limit of gravity field is apparent limit of spirit world

The spirit world proceeds outward beyond the confines of the physical world, just like every other spirit body. The extent of the Earth’s gravitational field is the apparent extent of its spirit body. In other words, once something leaves the confines of Earth’s gravitational field, it has apparently left the confines of the spirit world.

The same principle of spirit encompassing element applies to all spirit bodies connected to physical bodies. The spirit body of a man, for example, contains the physical body of the man within its confines, and extends some distance beyond the physical element. It is incorrect, then, to say that one’s spirit body is entirely within one’s physical body. The reverse is the true nature and pattern of the Universe. Every spirit body surrounds the physical body it is connected to, the spirit matter of the spirit body surrounding each particle of the elements that compose the physical body and moving it around with a push. This is one of the reasons why sometimes people can “sense” the presence of another person without their physical senses apparently being involved (because an outer edge of a person’s spirit has come into contact with an outer edge of some other person’s spirit), or why those who see people’s auras say that they extend beyond the physical body, or how two celestial objects can interact with each other at a distance, etc.

The spirit world is divided into two parts

Just as the physical world is divided into two parts, a large outer shell and a small inner shell, so the spirit world has two parts, spirit prison (otherwise known as hell) and paradise.

Where everything is located

Paradise is located where the inner sun is found. Spirit prison (or hell) is found in the depths of the larger, outer shell. To men walking on the outer surface of the larger shell, as well as on the inner surface, hell is found below them, or below their feet. Hell is also called the underworld because it is underneath the surface of the Earth (deep within the larger, outer shell).

Spirit world hell is patterned after universal outer darkness

Outer darkness is that area outside of the inner sphere of light known as the created Universe. The boundary between outer darkness and the inner sphere of light is a lake of fire and brimstone “which ascended up forever and ever.”

The hell of the spirit world is also called outer darkness because it lies in the larger, outer shell of the Earth. When men die, their spirits go to “that God who gave them life,” meaning that they go to the inner sun (a god-star), which is the location of spirit world paradise. The righteous among them are received into paradise (see the gates of righteousness below), while the unjust spirits are cast out into outer darkness (hell).

Spirit world hell is a place of darkness and powerlessness. Gravity in hell is different than that at the surface, it being either largely reduced or altogether canceled out. Hell is the abode of Satan and his angels and is their base of operations. From there they travel to the two opposing surfaces of the planet where mortal men are found and tempt them to break God’s commandments. The departed spirits of men found in hell are subject to the spirit of the devil, who keeps them miserable like himself.

Hell fire

Spirit world hell is also surrounded by fire and brimstone (magma) or what the scriptures call hell fire or God’s “fiery indignation.” All these terms are descriptions of real things, as well as states of mind and heart.

The gates of hell

The scriptures speak repeatedly of “the gates of hell.” These gates are openings found upon the Earth that lead down to the physical location of hell. They include certain volcanoes, as well as cave systems that seemingly go on and on, and also holes and cracks in the earth that appear to be bottomless pits. They are found in various locations around the planet and are often called by the local population by some name indicating hell, such as Mouth of Hell, etc. No one typically tries to go down these apertures and cavities due to dangerous conditions, such as noxious gases, magma flow, utter darkness, fearful noises (which sound like the screams of the damned souls in hell), etc.

The gates of righteousness

The scriptures also speak of “the gates of righteousness.” These gates are the polar openings found upon the two shells that compose the physical world, or four gates total. Paradise, which is located within the inner sun, cannot be seen by those living on the outside surface of the planet. One would need to enter either the north or south polar opening (gate of righteousness) to view the physical location of spirit world paradise (the inner sun). In the same way, in order to actually enter into spirit world paradise, one would need to go through either the north or south polar opening (gate of righteousness) of the inner sun so as to be on its inner surface, where paradise is found.

The gates of righteousness are, essentially, “narrow gates,” hidden from the view of most people, or unknown or disbelieved to exist by almost all men. Few men find them. The gates of hell, on the other hand, are well-known, documented and often wide gates.

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus

In Luke 16: 19-31 the Savior mentions “a great gulf fixed” between hell and “Abraham’s bosom” (the paradise of the inner sun). No one could pass from hell to paradise, nor from paradise to hell because of this gulf. The gulf is the space that exists between the inner sun and outer shell of Earth.

After Jesus’ death, He went to paradise and “organized his forces and appointed messengers, clothed with power and authority, and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the gospel to them that were in darkness, even to all the spirits of men; and thus was the gospel preached to the dead.” (See D&C 138.)  These messengers required power to cross the “great gulf fixed.”

Scriptures are both spiritual and temporal

As the above shows, many of the scriptural terms that we take to have strictly figurative or symbolic meaning also have a literal or physical counterpart. Or, as Nephi told his brothers Laman and Lemuel, the prophets spoke of things both temporal and spiritual.

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‘Round midnight


The title relates to two things. A jazz song by that name which is kind of a mournful blues. The title and the tune bring to mind things that happen at midnight which would not happen during the day.

The other reference of the title comes from the parable of the ten virgins. The bridegroom is said to come at midnight. Midnight during the time of Christ was not our same midnight of 12 am. The counting of hours was based upon the rising and setting of the sun. So midnight was literally the time farthest from the light of the sun in both directions. It was the darkest time of the night.

Just before a great light bursts upon us and we are delivered from the bondage of Babylon the night is going to get very dark. Mercifully the coming of the bridegroom did not wait all the way till the morning returned. The Lord tells us this when He speaks of the coming destructions and how that for yet a little while I hid my face from thee. Here is an example in Isaiah 10:24,25.

24 Therefore thus saith the Lord God of hosts, O my people that dwellest in Zion, be not afraid of the Assyrian: he shall smite thee with a rod, and shall lift up his staff against thee, after the manner of Egypt.
25 For yet a very little while, and the indignation shall cease, and mine anger in their destruction.

I understand this use of Zion to be a geographic reference to the American continent and not the coming kingdom of God yet to be established thereon. And this because as He said in D&C 112: 25,26:

25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;
26 First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me,

We are not living at midnight. But I feel we are ‘round midnight. The conference center will likely fall within a few years. When that happens I believe there will be an unleashing of evil like we have never seen. And I am seeing more and more signs of the coming break up of the church right where I live.

But for your consideration I have a true story to relate. I have a personal friend who witnessed the beginning of a terrible series of evil acts perpetrated by a small group of people who were just following their “prophet”. The actions were those of abduction , extortion and then 5 counts of murder. The group was only about 4 or 5 people with just 2 or 3 of them directly doing the crimes and at least one more covering for them. I won’t go into all the details but you can view them here. But the real start of it will never be mentioned in a police blotter or news story or even in any books written about it (unless my friend writes one).

The “prophet” was Taylor Helzer. The crimes occurred in 2000 but had their beginning earlier. Taylor Helzer was an active member of the LDS church and had served a mission. In the late 1980’s my friend was a member of his ward. My friend was coming to the realization that much of what goes on in the church is not scripturally based. In short he realized that the church which Joseph Smith and Parley Pratt were members of was not the same church we see today. He began to question the mantra “just follow the brethren” and began thinking for himself.

Several years before the Helzer began committing the murders my friend was approached by Taylor Helzer at church. Taylor was a strong believer in the “follow the brethren” mindset. Taylor was pressuring my friend and telling him to get with the program and just follow the brethren. My friend then quoted a scripture to him. D&C 64:38,39

38 For it shall come to pass that the inhabitants of Zion shall judge all things pertaining to Zion.
39 And liars and hypocrites shall be proved by them, and they who are not apostles and prophets shall be known.

Taylor had never processed the idea that there could be false apostles or hypocrites among the “brethren”. My friend watched Taylor’s face and could be seen a total deconstruction of a mindset. A very huge paradigm shift. That was the beginning of Taylor Helzer’s flip from active Latter-day Saint to self appointed prophet willing to murder as directed by an entity whom he called “spirit”. An example of his being directed was given when he talked to the police about two people who were not directly involved in committing the crimes. He had not let them know what he and his brother were doing while the two helpers were providing a cover story for them. He told the police, “Spirit said that I should not let them be in here,”

Taylor Helzer’s purpose in the abduction was to get money to fund a plan to “Transform America,” by ushering in “a state of peace and joy” and defeat Satan. Part of the plan was to train Brazilian youth to kill 15 of the top leaders of the LDS church and then place himself as the rightful prophet and then go on to transform America.

This is a cautionary tale in two ways. One for ourselves personally. Watch yourselves. Be careful which spirit you list to obey. Years before the murders Taylor went into drugs and a lot of sexual sin. If anything in what you feel to do would be cruel or heartless to others it can’t be from God. That which doth not edify is not of God. I beg you to stay away from it.

Secondly it cautions us in that it presents a scenario which may very well be played out on a much larger scale in our days. The mindset which allows a person to turn over their agency to another person or group of people the is the perfect mindset for the devil to carry out his plans. All that is needed is to plant the right person as the one they follow.

These type of followers have no personal moral compass. It is so much easier to just do what you are told than to have to weigh it out in your mind and obtain an answer directly from God and to be sure it is from God. Most people will do anything to avoid having to use the muscle of their brain and heart.

As we look out across the millions of members of the LDS church and think of how many buy into the “just do what the brethren say” mindset and then contemplate how they might react when their paradigm shifts as the seers are covered, I believe we may conclude we are sitting on a powder keg.

How many of them might look to Mitt Romney newly elected US president (in that day) as the answer to the burning question in their minds which will be, “Who do I follow now?” But in more accurate terms is, “To whom shall I give my agency to now?”

Some of you may want to talk about the validity or lack thereof in this possible scenario. But more than that I would like to read your comments on what you are experiencing right now in the church. What do you see as you look out in this time ‘round midnight?

Do you see the portent of the absence of the gifts of the spirit in our meetings and lives? Moroni said this, “ And now I speak unto all the ends of the earth—that if the day cometh that the power and gifts of God shall be done away among you, it shall be because of unbelief. And wo be unto the children of men if this be the case; for there shall be none that doeth good among you, no not one….” (Moroni 10:24,25)

Do you see members so caught up in the love of money so that it caused Moroni to say, “ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted”? Do you see what Moroni prophesied of by saying that “leaders of churches and teachers shall rise in the pride of their hearts, even to the envying of them who belong to their churches”?

A member of the church told me he had no concern about the future of the US since the Lord always had the prophets warn the people before their nation was to be destroyed and our prophets are not telling us that, so no worries. If you are thinking that way I suggest you read Ether 2:8-10.

It reminds me this from Isaiah chapter 6

8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
9  And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,
12 And the Lord have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.

When a patient is sick the doctor take his vital signs, temperature, blood pressure and pulse. What are the vital signs of the membership of the church where you are?

My brothers and sister in God. I have faith in God, that He will send one mighty and strong to lead us to gather to Zion. And until then I think I should continue to do all I can to get out of Babylon and establish what I can of Zion in my own life and those who will join with me. I have had a lot of things that could destroy my trust in God. But after talking them over with Him I have always resolved to increase that trust. Not to trust in men of the arm of flesh and not even in my own wisdom. But in the Father and the Son who is my Redeemer and Savior from all the fiery darts of the adversary.

CHI #6


The focus of this post is to examine the policies established by the CHI for the worthiness interview required for baptism.

Section 16.3.3 covers interviews for convert baptisms. Mission presidents are given the keys for administering baptisms of new members of the church over the age of 8 or for 8 year old children whose parents are not members of the church. The full time mission district or zone leaders are delegated authority by the mission president to perform the worthiness interviews for these baptisms.

Various scriptures mention the need to verify a person is truly repentant prior to being baptized into Christ’s church. The Lord does expect those who are seeking baptism to in someway demonstrate their repentant state. And it is a priesthood function to verify this. The process for this has become the baptismal interview.

This basically places the full time missionaries in the function of a judge “in Israel” or at least at the entrance into Israel. We are taught that certain sins are more grievous than others. Murder specifically has some scriptural precautions attached to it and is treated as a sin which the Lord does not easily forgive.

In my mind there are some real questions about whether the way we are taught about this is the way God views it. In the book of Alma the people of Lamoni were completely forgiven of murderous acts. You might accept that group because perhaps what they did  was done under a “legal” cloak.  I believe it is a very dangerous thing to think that because a thing is legal under an earthly government it is not murder, enslavement or theft before God. I suggest you read Many are Called But Few Are Chosen by H. Verlan Anderson to understand that. But even if that were true what about those Lamanites who came and began slaughtering thousands of Anti Nephi Lehis who were not even armed nor resisting? They seem to have been truly forgiven that very day.

I will only lightly cover that because it is not the focus of this section of the CHI and I do not feel adequate to treat it thoroughly with all scriptural statements taken into account.

Now to help clarify the CHI requirements for a convert baptismal interview I will break the sins listed into 3 classes. Each class requires a different level of approval before the candidate may be baptized. If this sounds to you a little like the instructions for an income tax form then you should ponder the significance of that.  The format here is not from the CHI but the procedures and events listed are.

Class 1 sins are all sins not covered in classes 2 or 3.

Class 1 candidates are approved by the interview of the missionary District or Zone leader.

Class 2 sins are if the candidate :

1. Has submitted to, performed, arranged for, paid for, consented to, or encouraged an abortion.

2. Has been convicted of a serious crime.

3. Has committed a homosexual transgression.

Class 2 events require the mission president to interview or he may on a case by case basis authorize one of his counselors to interview and then the mission president’s approval must be given before the baptism is allowed.

Class 3 requires the mission president himself to conduct the interview and receive approval of the First Presidency before the baptism can take place.

Class 3 sins are if the candidate:

Has committed murder

Has been involved in the practice of plural marriage

Has undergone an elective transsexual operation

Is currently on legal probation or parole

Under murder further instructions are given exempting cases of a police or military killings done in the line of duty. I wonder if that includes CIA employees who torture people or kill them as part of their job. Well surely torture is not murder just a serious crime or no not even a crime since they were obeying the 12th commandment, I mean article of faith because it was done under the laws of the land (What land? Don’t confuse me with details!).

Regarding involvement in plural marriage two more subsections are cited. The first subsection relates to adults who have been involved. The other relates to children whose parents are practicing or did practice plural marriage.

As an adult you have in the eyes of the CHI committed a class 3 sin if you have previously taught, encouraged or practiced plural marriage. Remember this is as a nonmember we are talking about. The mission president must submit a request for approval to the First Presidency and it should include information about the person’s past involvement and his subsequent repentance.

So let me get this straight. A person who learns of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ must repent of having taught what Joseph Smith and every apostle up until 1890 taught and prove repentance for having taught it before he can be baptized? And of course the same applies to having encouraged or practiced it also.

Wow I am sure glad this high standard doesn’t apply to retaining church membership since as someone who has been sealed to two women (both living as if that makes a difference) I am obviously teaching by example and in fact practicing plural marriage. But we will see why I am exempt from any such punishment.

And now let’s look at the class 3 sin of involvement in plural marriage as applied to a child. This occurs when the candidate for baptism is a child of parents who have practiced or are practicing plural marriage contrary to the law. I take that to mean the civil law where the person is living.

The mission president may submit his request for approval to the first presidency when the following requirements are met.

1. The children accept the teachings and doctrines of the church.

Is this not required in the other classes of baptismal approval? (Hey lay off government regulations are notoriously redundant)

2. The children repudiate the teachings upon which their parents based their practice of plural marriage.

So that would be something found in the Bible, Doctrine and Covenants or the journal of discourses? No it could easily be something in Islamic law too! Yeah and as true blue Americans we all know that is all evil especially after 911. Yeah!

3. Minor children are not living in a home where polygamy is being taught or practiced.

Good thing for my children that they were already baptized when I married my second wife in the temple without cancelling the sealing to my first. But obviously that doesn’t matter since it is not against the law of the state. So is that all the CHI is concerned about? You might say no because is says also even if the doctrine is being taught in the home. But in fact this is exactly the language of the Official Declaration 1 which states we aren’t teaching and we aren’t practicing plural marriage.

I think we have to agree that this is all about bowing to the law of man. We can see that the application becomes extreme. Where do the writers of the CHI draw the line regarding teaching the doctrine of plural marriage as an eternal principle? That really doesn’t matter to them because the policy here it is all about bowing to the governments of men.

Now consider this fact. There are only a few nations where sex outside of marriage between adults is a crime. In fact to many people such a law is seen as a “gross human rights violation.” Although I don’t classify Satan as a person (he doesn’t have a body) I am sure he calls laws against extra marital sex as a violation of human rights (see Alma 30:18, 27).

So if a child lives in a home where the parents are not married but simply living together and having sexual relations then there is no restriction on that child being baptized. No letter to the first presidency stating the child repudiates the actions of his parents. And rightfully so. The child’s acceptance of the gospel of Christ is that repudiation.

But I see in this policy an extreme bias against a doctrine which was part of the restoration of all things but which the leadership of the LDS church is now trying to stamp out of existence. And all of this policy is in obedience to governments which outlaw God’s laws and make legal Satan’s laws.

I readily admit there are many things in this policy which could stand some scrutiny and no doubt the comments will explore them. I just picked on a policy which seems to really pick on some innocent little children placing them in the same class with people who have shed innocent blood. And I ask myself and you to what end?