Note: The following thougths are CRAZY! Don’t take them as inspiration or revelation. The Holy Ghost didn’t reveal this stuff to me. These are just random and rampant, speculative thoughts that have popped into my head recently. Be amused by their insanity or use them if you find any wisdom in any of them, as you wish.
Crazy thought #1: The Mormon church as the official state religion (not Gaia worship)!
A couple of days ago I found myself reading a blog post written by Denver Snuffer called, Constantine and Correlation, in which LDS church correlation was compared to the historical “correlation” provided by Constantine to the primitive church. I commented on that post but it either wasn’t approved (yet?) or didn’t go through. At any rate, I was able to see the role that correlation might play when the church becomes broken up into churches (see An Alternate View of the Keys) and the majority of members start persecuting, torturing and then killing the minority future remnant. As history repeats itself, just as Constantine’s “correlation” ultimately led to the persecution, torture and killing of those who believed otherwise (in order to save their souls), so the current correlation seed planted by Harold B. Lee and now sprouted into the correlation program we see every day in church might have the same end: the killing of “heretical saints.”
However, although I could see the natural evolution of correlation leading to torturing and murdering saints, which would fulfill the prophecies, creating a modern-day Spanish (Mormon) Inquisition, I still did not have a clear picture of how the Mormon church would become the state religion. In other words, if history repeats itself, then the same thing that happened with the primitive church would happen to the restored church. Just as they got correlation, we go correlation. Just as Constantine made Christianity the state religion, so our religion would become the religion of the state. Now, going on this premise, that the history would be the same, I couldn’t clearly see how this would happen and thought to inquire of the Lord whether it would happen and how.
The next day (yesterday), a friend of mine came over for a surprise visit and we began discussing multiple topics. I mentioned to him about the Constantine and Correlation blog post and as we talked a new thought popped into my head, which was this: when the Mormon church gets broken up by the earthquake, the assets of the church, which are huge (lots of prime real estate, etc.), become a problem, a legal problem. Everyone fights over the assets and can’t come to an agreement as to what property goes to whom. The government, then, steps in to resolve the issue and takes over the property, deciding who gets what, giving to this former stake president these buildings, etc. The government does not relinquish the central buildings that still stand after the earthquake, specifically, the Salt Lake Temple, being the icon of the former church, as everyone wants it and makes a claim on it. The government takes over other general church properties, etc., leaving the meetinghouses, and some of the temples, in the hands of the now broken up individual Mormon churches. But the Salt Lake Temple and perhaps other temples, remain state owned, just as the parable of the redemption of Zion indicated that the enemy will take over the tower (temple.) See D&C 101: 43-62.
Now, this thought sounded crazy to me, as we Americans currently believe in the separation of church and state, but I know that conditions among men are going to change, so I asked my friend what he thought. His answer was that it didn’t sound all that far fetched.
Later in the day, after he left, a few more thoughts along the same line popped into my head, namely, that the priests over the broken up Mormon churches would be agents of the state, having been selected (appointed) by the state (who took over the property of the church) as well as by the people of their respective congregations. As a large amount of real estate would be “up for grabs”, the state would see this (taking over the Mormon church) as something desirable to do. In fact, even the Christians of this nation would see this as something good for the government to do. How much better to destroy Mormonism if its main temple(s) and other properties are in the hands of the government which the people control? We would see a repeat of King Noah and his people, namely, that just as Noah put down the former priests and consecrated new ones, ones that were supported by the taxes of the people, so the new Mormon priests would be agents of the state, selected by the state, working for the state, even, perhaps, being paid by the state (from taxes). Essentially, a total repeat of the history of the Noah, state-sponsored religion.
The descent of the churches into all manner of wickedness, converting the churches into a means to obtain money and power, would benefit the state, therefore, no stops would remain in place to prevent the iniquity from happening.
The saints being in bondage (see D&C 103: 15-18)—who would need to be liberated just as Moses liberated the Israelites from the Egytians and Pharaoh—refers to the time when the state will have taken over the church(es). This bondage means bondage to the state, which, in fact, does have the power to enslave through force of weapons. As there is much property tied up in the Mormon church, the state would not want to let these people and congregations (and their property) depart or separate from the state controlled religion. Just as Pharaoh represented a government, even the Egyptian government, so the saints would need to be freed from the bondage and dictates imposed by the state.
In rapid fire manner, yet another thought occurred to me: that as agents of the state, when the Spanish Inquisition-type of murders begins happening, that they would not be considered murder by the leaders, as they would be state authorized. Just as a soldier does not commit murder when told to go into a town and kill everyone, because he or she is engaging in state-authorized killing, so these priests, being agents of the state, and their tribunals, and the resulting executions, would be authorized, even legalized killings, and not murder. (Of course, in the eyes of God, that’s another story).
Yet another thought: that the blood of these slain saints would be not only on the hands of the wicked Mormon churches and their wicked leaders, but also upon the hands of the state. This would lead to the Lord sending the Lamanites upon both the Mormon churches, wiping them out, and also upon the American government in general, destroying it entirely.
Lastly, a final thought: there are many current members of the church who have very strong ties to the American government. When the earthquake hits, these members will use their influence to bring the government in, so as to arbitrate among the bickering parties, encouraging it to take over the properties. Although there may be good intentions in these actions, this will also be done to enrich themselves.
New topic: Anarchists (and Mormons) are all talk and no action
I have found that anarchists, in general, like to discuss principles of anarchy and ponder anarchical theories, but when it comes to doing something that will actually change society, they choose either to do nothing or simply to educate. (Neither of these options change, or will change, society.) When two anarchists get together, if they are not of the same flavor, they will just argue back and forth over which school of anarchic thought is superior. Of course, there are thugs who perform violent acts, destroying personal property, etc., who act “in the name of anarchy,” but I don’t consider these reactionary acts to actually further the work of changing society into anarchies. If anything, they lend power to the state’s propaganda machine. Defending oneself with force is one thing, provoking a state to clamp down on you is another.
Peaceful change from a state to an anarchy is possible and practical, at least in this country. One way to do it is to write up initiatives, in those states that allow initiatives, in which a simple NONE OF THE ABOVE is added to every elected office of the ballet. In this way, if the people want to peacefully shut down their government, or any part of it, they can choose to do so. I cannot foresee my countrymen opposing such an initiative measure, as it is based upon a fundamental right, even the right that this nation was built on. Working in this practical way, appealing to the American sense of natural born rights, anarchists can peacefully offer to the population at large an option to enter into anarchy, if they want to. The slogan “the lesser of two evils” can be replaced with “choose no evil, select none of the above.” Or any other type of campaign to influence people to voluntarily and peacefully shut their governments down. Once the option to shut the state down is on the table, don’t you think the rest will follow its course? Of course, it will. People aren’t stupid. We had untramelled agency in the heavens. Once presented with the prospect of expanded agency, people will voluntarily choose to limit or even eliminate the state, and thus expand their agency even further. And you can bet that the first thing they’ll probably shut down are all the tax officers!
As far as the LDS are concerned, they also use their precious time to discuss principles of the gospel (and sometimes won’t even do that!) but will not implement them unless they are commanded by their leaders. My focus in the gospel has always been on Zion, because the gospel’s whole purpose is to establish Zion here on earth, so any gospel discussion I have with LDS inevitably leads to a discussion of that perfect society. However, whereas I always forge ahead into the ways to establish Zion, the other interlocutors either stick to just a discussion of the principles of Zion, or try to altogether change the subject into a discussion of how to apply the gospel principles while still remaining firmly attached to Bablyon. They have no interest in discussing or implementing ways to establish Zion. This is because the LDS desire to be commanded in all things, especially where Zion is concerned, and have no innate desire to see it established now. This lack of initiative and dislike of Zion, along with the inequalities of wealth among the membership, etc., has caused the Lord to in large measure remove His gifts from the church. Instead of everyone having the gifts, hardly anyone has them. We LDS are now unequal in every sense of the word, both materially and spiritually.
Before I started this blog, I had pretty much given up on all anarchists, as well as all Mormons. Anarchists would continue to argue their principles and do nothing. Mormons would continue to align themselves with Babylon and neglect Zion. I thought that I was alone in my thoughts of practical anarchy and practical theology (establishing Zion). I didn’t see the need nor the theological basis of having to wait for the leadership to command the people in this (or any other area). The Lord is capable of directly inspiring His people, He need not go through His priesthood leadership. I knew this, but I didn’t see it happening anywhere.
In fact, I was pretty much the only one I knew of having direct revelations, or that had seen angels, or that had seen evil spirits, or that had seen a vision, or that had had inspired dreams, or that had healed the sick, or that had been miraculously healed, or that had heard the voice of the Spirit audibly, or that had prophesied, and on and on and on. If other members were having revelations, seeing visions, angels and the like, they were not talking about it. People around me would refer to other people as manifesting gifts or receiving inspiration and/or revelation, but would not give a personal example. I never liked to rely on someone else’s testimony, always choosing to tell an experience I had personal knowledge of, so I would always refer to my own revelations, gifts and manifestations. But doing so alienated me from everyone, both member and non-member alike. It got to the point where it seemed like the LDS no longer even desired to possess the gifts of the Spirit. (A couple of LDS even commented to me once that they felt the gift of tongues was a useless gift and were glad it was no longer operative in the way it was anciently!)
To compound the strangeness of it all, one of the two gifts I’ve been given is the discerning of spirits. If I apply myself to exercise it, I can feel the people in my presence and discern their spirits, or whether they are operating under a foreign (evil) spirit. I’ve also been able to discern unembodied spirits in the vicinity. I don’t always remember to apply the gift, but when I do, it has never failed to manifest the true nature of the individual in question. Well, of late, my discernment “probes” haven’t been giving me pleasant information. There shouldn’t be a single LDS operating under evil spirits, or engaging in hypocrisy, yet I keep discovering them. There are other disturbing trends I’m noticing, too, which leads me to believe that the LDS are not simply keeping the manifestations to themselves, but that the manifestations have all but ceased among the long time members. (The new member or investigator is an exception, as they are still receptive to the spiritual promptings.) When a congregation stops receiving the Spirit’s manifestations, the evil spirit can more easily start to guide the people.
Anyway, that was my opinion before I started the blog. However, since starting it, and especially of late, I am now of the opinion that the Lord has people among the congregations who still receive revelations, prophecies, etc. You might call these people agents. (See here and here and here.) It may be that these people are keeping quiet for fear of repercussions by the presiding authorities or merely because they have been taught to keep these experiences to themselves, as if they are too “sacred” to share with others. It may be that these people are ready, able and willing to act, but they need something new to inspire them.
So, based upon this recent belief, that there are Zion-seeking LDS out there in the congregations who have received the Spirit of Christ and possess gifts, I’ve had some new thoughts of a more practical nature in which some theological anarchy can be instilled among this group I’m referring to, the end result, perhaps, being a preparation for the establishment of Zion.
Crazy thought #2: A New School of the Prophets
Another of Denver Snuffer’s posts, Personal Revelation, also got me thinking. This time, my comment actually went through. Quoting myself: “These days are, after all, those in which sons and daughters are supposed to be prophesying, etc. (Joel 2: 28).” I wrote that three days ago. Today the thought popped into my head to do what I could to encourage prophesying, visions, etc.
So, I decided to start an online “school of the prophets.” Apparently, ancient prophets came in schools. (See the Prophets entry of the Encyclopedia Britannica.) So, I’ve decided to create an online school of sorts, an association of prophets, in which prophets can talk to one another and share their prophecies, etc. The Establishment of Zion Think Tank now has a board called A New School of Prophets. The idea is this: if you are a LDS and you have got the gift to prophesy, then register and go there and share your prophecies and talk to other prophets. Now, when I say the gift to prophesy, I don’t mean the spirit of prophecy and revelation, which is the testimony of Jesus, which is the Holy Ghost. Anyone in the church can, and should, have that. I’m referring to the specific gift to prophesy listed as one of the 14 gifts given to the church in D&C 46. But even if you don’t have that gift, you can still enter the board and read the prophecies listed there, and talk to those who claim to possess this gift.
I, myself, possess the gift to prophesy (though it is not as developed as discernment), but I don’t know if anyone else in the church does. I’d like to think there are others that possess it, but I’ve never heard anyone prophesy, other than myself, so, hopefully, I’m not the only one. If so, well, then the board will remain empty. But if there are any prophets within the sound of my voice, enter the board and prophesy away. Later, as more and more LDS gain this gift, the board can be used to create local, bona fide schools of prophets.
Crazy thought #3: Spiritual Healing Centers
On 28 February 2008, on Doc’s blog, I wrote the following comment:
It’s funny you should mention this topic. Just yesterday, a close friend of mine, who has no health insurance, went to see a doctor for a condition she thought was pretty bad. She was thinking maybe she had cancer, etc. She paid cash for the visit and got a 10% discount as a result. It cost her $124 and basically the doc told her that it seemed to be a combination of nerves, allergic and maybe indigestion (acid reflux). She recommended a blood test a few other tests. Then my friend went to the laboratory to find out how much the blood test would be. $825 was the price she got. She decided to skip on the blood test and change her eating, drinking and other habits, as that was cheaper. I, personally, didn’t realize that prices were so high, though we’ve all heard the news report on this. Insurance has insulated us from the real cost of health care. If these numbers are typical, these costs truly are skyrocketing.
The solution that I see to this problem is a spiritual one. The LDS have been offered the “best gifts,” listed in D&C 46. Two of those best gifts are the gift to heal and the gift to be healed. For the most part, according to my experience in the church, we haven’t used these gifts, nor any of the other best ones. The gift to heal has been “assigned” to the priesthood by tradition and precedent in the administration of priesthood blessings, which, according to D&C 42: 43, only was to occur where there was no faith to be healed. Thus, most priesthood blessings are not miraculous. Some are, though, but these are rare, indeed. I myself have healed miraculously and also been healed miraculously, so I won’t say that the gifts are non-existent in the church, but they appear to be virtually non-existent.
If the LDS would wake up out of their stupor and set right the temporal inequalities among them, so that they qualify for the abundance of the manifestations of the Spirit, which includes the best gifts, then we would have men and women among us who can heal others miraculously. We’d also have individuals, such as bishops or others, who possess the gift to discern other gifts (see D&C 46: 27) and we would know who possessed which gift. This would solve to a great extent the present health care crisis not only among ourselves but also among the people of the world who believe in Christ.
The poor typically are people of faith. If the LDS started exercising these gifts and powers of the Holy Ghost, as they should be, poor people would seek out the LDS healers to rid them of their illnesses and conditions “without money and without price.” This would free up the health care system of a huge drain on their resources. Those who could afford it, and who wished to be healed slowly, or not at all, could exercise their money and visit the allopathic medical doctors, whereas those who couldn’t afford it and who wished to be miraculously healed, could exercise their faith and visit the LDS who possessed and used the gift to heal. If bishops actually possessed the gift of discernment of gifts, as they are supposed to have, a non-LDS believer in Christ could seek out the local LDS bishop and be directed to a member of that ward who possessed the gift to heal.
Unfortunately, the LDS currently also use allopathic medicine, or other types of health practitioners, and have not received these gifts, except in rare cases, or have received them in their lower administrations (blessing the doctor so that he prescribes correctly or the surgeon so that he has a steady hand) instead of the higher administrations (miraculous healing.) This is in keeping with D&C 46: 15, and is better than nothing, at all, but still not what we should expect of ourselves.
Thus we see that the LDS have the solution to the problem but do not use it. What I wonder is, will our unwillingness to obtain and use a fullness of these gifts to bless the world and alleviate the suffering and pain of illness bring repercussions upon us from the Lord in the day of judgment? Are we considered “part of the problem” because we don’t use the very solution the Lord has set up?
Doc responded:
LDSA,
Whoa, who knew you had such a dim view of medicine. Color me sensitive, but I consider a lot of what I do to be the gift of healing, which after all is much more than just curing. It takes a real, genuine, personal connection, love and faith.I do believe in the gift of the spirit to heal and be healed. You probably have a point about a typical lack of faith these days. It is a product of our culture. I would bet you healing is much more common in the Church outside the US.
But the fact is, it remains a gift, and not everyone will be blessed with it. I don’t think it was intended to supplant medicine. Were it so, Brigham Young wouldn’t have sent all those LDS women off to medical school.
To which I responded:
I didn’t mean to offend you, Doc. But you are right, I do look down upon much of modern allopathic medicine techniques and conclusions. I appreciate the immense knowledge that scientific research has discovered about the body, but due to the inability to factor in the role of plasma in our organisms, modern medicine usually can’t see the forest for the trees. There are a lot of people who, given plenty of facts, still can’t come to correct conclusions, and nowhere is this more prevalent than the medical community. The medical community, unfortunately, has lots of facts of the physical and chemical nature of the body, but does not have an understanding of the electric fields therein, or their role in our systems. They see it, but not being plasma scientists, they don’t know what it does or how it got there, or even why it is important. They look upon it as secondary. Although I have commented on my blog only about plasma cosmology and plasma theology, there is also plasma geology and plasma biology, as well as every other field of study. The role of plasma is universal. When you gain a deep understanding of plasma, all scientific fields suddenly open up, both true causes and true effects. And when it is discounted, the true causes and effects are missed. Nevertheless, it is still possible to arrive at a cure by happenstance, without knowing the true cause and cure.
The medical establishment does much good with what they have, and there are definite gifts of compassion, sacrifice, kindness and knowledge being manifest among these non-miraculous healers. The Lord works according to the conditions among men, so he does what he can with what he has to work with. I do not doubt that you help many people using medical care, and it can be termed a gift of healing, especially as the Lord does still help according to whatever faith is present. But this is not THE gift of healing spoken of in the scriptures, or, perhaps, better said, it is not the higher manifestation of this gift.
I have no idea if spiritual, miraculous healing is more prevalent outside the U.S. Many foreign countries have socialized medicine, which makes it that much easier to rely upon a doctor, so it might be even less than here. But then again, foreigners are often seen to be more “superstitious” than Americans are, so they may seek first a spiritual solution, therefore, you may in fact be right.
Brigham Young was a believer in education, so maybe he had it in mind to get the LDS as educated in all fields as was possible, so that they could take that knowledge and use it to their advantage in their own land. This, in my estimation, would be a wise course to take. Especially if the abundances of the Spirit (the best gifts) were not being manifest due to temporal stinginess and inequality. But if the gifts are manifest, and specifically this one gift to heal, much of medicine becomes unnecessary, except in cases where a healer is not present.
This subject of gifts requires a more in depth exposition. I guess I’d better take it up on my own blog. As yet, I’ve only taken up tongues, but the gifts of healing deserve attention. Thank you for stimulating my mind.
Okay, so, as you can see from the above, I believe the Lord would like us to expand these gifts so that we can become a benefit not only to ourselves (the LDS) but also to all mankind. I do not know if anyone possesses the two gifts of healing (the gift to have faith to heal and the gift to have faith to be healed). I know that I do not possess them. Yes, I have had instances in which the Spirit was upon me and I miraculously healed or I was miraculously healed, but these were temporary manifestations and not permanent gifts. I do not know of anyone in my locality who possesses these gifts. If I did, I would take my entire family to him or her and ask to have us healed every whit. But, to my knowledge, there is no one. However, because the Lord may have such people with these gifts, I propose to create an online Spiritual Healing Center. If you are a LDS who possesses the gift of faith to heal and wish to exercise the gift by healing others, visit the Spiritual Healing Center board, which I have created on the Establishment of Zion Think Tank forum. You can leave contact information on that board or talk to other healers so that people in your area can come to you and have you lay hands on them and be healed. Also, if other healers are local to you, you can interact with them and use the board to establish bona fide Spiritual Healing Centers in your locality, in which people can come and be healed by the “resident healers” as a group.
Personally, I am even more skeptical that there are spiritual healers among us than I am that there are prophets among us, but the Lord hasn’t told me everything and I’m willing to give Him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe, just maybe, one or two individuals will show up on the board…
Crazy thought #4: Use the priesthood for everything and ask for every gift
The next thought is some practical advice for those who are tired of the same old same old. I have heard of someone who uses the priesthood to counteract the devil and his secret combination(s). He thinks of something specific, very specific, that he wants the Lord to do, as well as a specific area in which he wants it done. Then, he circles the area in his car (or if it is a small area, he’ll walk) seven times. Then he puts his arm to the square, states the authority of the priesthood and commands in the name of the Lord the specific thing he wants to happen. In the case of using the priesthood against conspiring men (the secret combination), he may ask God in the authority of the priesthood to remove poisons from the neighborhood water, or disintegrate the vehicles used in chem trails, or put a mark upon federal reserve notes. He may ask that whatever intentional evil is being inflicted by conspiring men may be returned four times upon the heads of those who are conspiring. He may ask for cursings and destructions, and/or blessings and that evil things don’t work. He has routinely used the priesthood to eliminate or reduce the power of evil spirits in the area, etc.
Now, he is just one lone man, an elder possessing the Melchizedek priesthood. Imagine if there were many such priesthood holders who routinely asked for specific things and performed the ordinance and request by the authority of the priesthood and according to their faith, not only to bless themselves and others, but to also stop the evil workings of the devil around us. How many LDS do you know of that are doing this? I know of only one. That number needs to increase. The priesthood, when spoken correctly, has power to do all things and can stop Satan in his tracks. The limits of how one could use priesthood are only the things in which one can exercise faith. This means that as long as the priesthood is being used to expand agency and not abridge it, one can exercise it in faith.
Destructions and other evil works can be stopped by the priesthood. Alma and Amulek had priesthood power to stop evil men:
And it came to pass that they took Alma and Amulek, and carried them forth to the place of martyrdom, that they might witness the destruction of those who were consumed by fire. And when Amulek saw the pains of the women and children who were consuming in the fire, he also was pained; and he said unto Alma: How can we witness this awful scene? Therefore let us stretch forth our hands, and exercise the power of God which is in us, and save them from the flames. But Alma said unto him: The Spirit constraineth me that I must not stretch forth mine hand; for behold the Lord receiveth them up unto himself, in glory; and he doth suffer that they may do this thing, or that the people may do this thing unto them, according to the hardness of their hearts, that the judgments which he shall exercise upon them in his wrath may be just; and the blood of the innocent shall stand as a witness against them, yea, and cry mightily against them at the last day. (Alma 14: 9-11)
The only reason they didn’t stop them was because the Spirit told Alma not to. But if the Spirit isn’t telling you, “No,” you are free to use the priesthood to stop wicked men from performing their wicked acts. The reason why this is permitted is because the priesthood can be used defensively to protect agency from those who would attempt to remove it. It isn’t used to take away the agency of a wicked person, which would be bad and the work of the devil, but to protect the agency of the person whose agency is being threatened by the wicked individual(s). This is why putting at defiance the armies of men is a perfectly acceptable use for the priesthood. This is why the sons of Mosiah could not be killed.
In like manner, you can use the priesthood in imaginative ways to protect your family, the saints and other innocents from the harm that would be inflicted by wicked men. Your use of the priesthood is limited only by your imagination, by whether the thing you are asking for can be asked in faith and whether your faith is firm in the belief that you will get what you are asking for.
There are many gifts. You can ask for any one of them, or all of them together. Here is a list:
A List of the Gifts of the Spirit
The gift of salvation.
The gift of interpretation of visions.
The gift of interpretation of dreams.
The gift of conveyance by the Spirit.
The gift of the convincing word.
The gift of causing the dumb to speak.
The gift of unstopping the ears of the deaf.
The gift of opening the eyes of the blind.
The gift of casting out devils.
The gift of retaining a remission of sins.
The gift of forgiveness.
The gift of protection from administered poison.
The gift of subduing principalities and powers.
The gift of standing in the presence of God.
The gift of breaking every band.
The gift of dividing the earth.
The gift of defying the armies of nations.
The gift of drying up waters.
The gift of dividing the seas.
The gift of breaking mountains.
The gift of delivery from the depths of the earth.
The gift of playing with wild beasts.
The gift of quenching the violence of fire.
The gift of turning the course of rivers.
The gift of tumbling prisons.
The gift of shaking the earth.
The gift of removing mountains.
The gift of taking up poisonous serpents.
The gift of beholding angels and spirits.
The gift of justification.
The gift of sanctification.
The gift of the Holy Ghost.
The gift of dreams.
The gift of visions.
The gift of the word of knowledge.
The gift of the word of wisdom.
The gift of hope.
The gift of charity.
The gift of faith.
The gift of translation (as in a translated being.)
The gift of seership.
The gift of prophecy.
The gift of working miracles.
The gift of interpretation of tongues.
The gifts of healing.
The gift of power to command the waters.
The gift of commandments.
The gift of power to seal both on earth and in heaven, the unbelieving and rebellious.
The gift of sufficient strength.
The gift of the words of God.
The gift of the sword of Laban.
The gift of the Urim and Thummim.
The gift of the miraculous directors (Liahona.)
The gift of the gold plates.
The gift of the breastplate.
The gift of the name of Jesus Christ.
The gift of the revelations of God.
The gift of the scriptures.
The gift of the keys of the mysteries.
The gift of the revelations which are sealed.
The gift of understanding.
The gift of the laws of God.
The gift of power to build up the church among the Lamanites.
The gift of parables.
The gift to go forth to preach the gospel and build up the church.
The gift of the fulness of the scriptures.
Anywhere in the scriptures where it says, “I give unto you” or “it is given unto you,” it is speaking of a gift of God. All of the covenant people of God have access to these gifts if they but ask for them. Women who have no priesthood are not limited in any way, for these gifts are extended to them, as well.
How to make it all work
Try something completely different. Instead of doing things the Babylon way, trying literally doing things by the power of the priesthood or by the power of the gifts and power of the Holy Ghost. Merely asking is not enough, one also needs to be Christ-centered. Let me make a suggestion that, if followed, will sanctify, purify and justify you so that what you ask for you will get.
The key is in Christ. Now, on my mission, my MTC mission president once challenged the missionaries to read 2 Nephi chapter 9 every day for 30 days, promising that their lives would be changed for the better because of it. That was a good challenge and some took it up and followed through with it. As 2 Nephi 9 is all about the atonement, it really did have an effect on those missionaries. (Not on me, though, as I didn’t take up that challenge.) But I will recommend something even better than that, for I think that mission president missed the mark. Instead of reading about Christ, read Christ. The following are my recommendations:
Read Day One of the Lord’s visit to the Nephites one day, then read Day Two the following day, then read Day One the next day and so on and so forth, alternating each day. Skip over the descriptive text and just read the words of Jesus, nothing else. Then, during the day, try to conform your life to those words. Now, I’ve tried this particular experiment with myself and others and I can tell you this, nothing gets Christ into people like the actual words of Christ. Not Jacob’s words, not Nephi’s words, not Joseph Smith’s words. Make the words of Christ the priority and watch how quickly you suddenly have your prayers answered. To give you an example of the power of Jesus’ words, I have seen a demon-possessed person have the demon rooted out and not come back as long as this practice was followed daily. The evil one cannot stand the words of Christ, and if the evil one is gone from your presence, think how easy it is to get the Spirit of the Lord there.
Day One begins in 3 Nephi 11 and finishes in 3 Nephi 18. Day Two begins in 3 Nephi 19 and finishes in 3 Nephi 25. Day One deals mostly with conduct, while Day Two deals with prophecy. Both are important. All you need to do is follow the instructions of Christ as detailed in Day One. Don’t try to rationalize them into different behavior, just take them at face value and attempt to conform your life to, as Jesus says, “the law and commandments of my Father”. Then watch and feel and experience what happens, as the Father begins to show forth his miraculous power and works in your life. When you see it, don’t go back to the old ways of doing things, the Babylonian ways. Do the good works defined by Moroni as “working by the power and gifts of God.” In other words, make the actual attempt to work miracles in your life. If enough people do this, we will almost immediately have the gifts, all of them, back in the church, and people can then once again benefit from them by going to others who possess the gifts we personally don’t have. In this way, all will be edified by all.
Complete List of Articles authored by LDS Anarchist
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LDS Anarchy 
Your right, those were some crazy thoughts, but they were fun to read. 🙂
Great counsel.
I’ve registered at your Think Tank — I hope this can motivate more people.
I’ve joined the think tank healer forum, now go approve me.
pretty please : )
In my branch the missionaries passed around a form saying “How I can help with MIssionary work:” Then had different boxes to check mark, give referral, have FHE with non-members, go on splits with the missionaries etc.
As I read this “crazy” thoughts I had a desire to do something. LDS, Let’s Do Something! I speak to myself. I am not saying , “Hey you guys do something.” I am saying I want to be a doer and not a hearer only.
I read about the gifts and especially the gift of Prophecy, not just the spirit of prophecy. AS I read I thought how at one time I thought I had that gift but don’t think I really did. And I think I need to study more and pray and see exactly what it is and what I can do to obtain it for the blessing of others. Paul gave it a preeminent position among the gift second only to charity (also a gift in my book).
Regarding the faith to heal I must relate that I have been party to blessings where someone one the point of death in a coma etc or was headed toward death, and as I blessed them words came to me that I was timid to speak but spoke them and the person lived. My timidity I do not see as justified. “Require not miracles, except I shall command you,” saith the Lord, but let’s finish the quote, “except casting out devils, healing the sick, and against poisonous serpents, and against deadly poisons;”
Oops! So lets rephrase what the Lord says keeping His meaning.
When someone has a demon or is sick, or poisoned, require a miracle, saith the Lord.
Then as I read using the priesthood for everything section I got real excited. Like looking at the missionary help check list and seeing some real simple and easy even fun things that you can do. You gleefully check the box and look forward to doing it.
LDSA you need to add to your list at least one more who has used his priesthood to command the powers of heaven to be brought to bear against the powers of darkness in this world, specifically and repeatedly. I will now resume these effort and maintain them.
Brothers and sister I am up for this. I can do this.
Now also by way of confirming your faith I relate these truths which I have learned and the experiences I have had.
This is important. When we use the priesthood we speak in the name and in the stead of our God who is Jesus Christ. I feel weak when I say “we bless you with what Heavenly Father wants for you etc”. I might as well not have the priesthood and just be saying a prayer.
No I believe I should and so I have said, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command that you be healed.”
Years ago one of my daughters was taken to the hospital for exploratory surgery for pain and gas in her abdominal cavity. Just as she had got to the room from which she would go to surgery I looked out the window and in the parking lot saw the bishop of our ward getting in to his car. How insanely rare an event that in the middle of the day he should be there. I ran and grabbed him and we blessed my daughter before the surgery. But even on the way up to her room he said something that weakened my faith, He said, “Don’t think that this is from the Lord that He is saying what can I do to bug dyc4557 today. We live in an imperfect world and somethings just happen.” Well that idea is false to me. I believe that to acknowledge God’s hand in all things means yes He is a part of each event in my life. He did allow or even cause it. Surely He could have prevented every sad or “bad” thing from happening to me. And this disease of my daughter He is directly involved in. Well she had the surgery her appendix had ruptured about 3 days earlier. I didn’t know the seriousness of peritonitis then and our doctor didn’t admit it had occurred. We heard it later from a nurse. 11 days later my daughter was weak and failing. Her digestion and GI functions had ceased for days. She was skinny as could be. I could see that if this trend continued she may be dead in less than two days. I sat there and prayed and this thought came to my mind, “The doctors have tried everything they know. They are a day late and a dollar short. They are days behind this disease. They can not heal my daughter. Is it her turn to die? I don’t think so. If so, the Lord will let me know. Otherwise I have the priesthood and I am going to use it. ” There at that time I told my wife I am going to give her another blessing and command she be healed.
I did not use oil (I often do not) I did not wait for another priesthood holder ( I often don’t) but I gave her a blessing in the name of Jesus Christ by the laying on of hands and the priesthood and commanded that her body to begin to recover from that very hour and continue to improve until she regained her full health. All was fulfilled exactly as I spoke it.
I have also had the experience of raising my arm to the square and commanding the elements and seeing them obey the priesthood instantly.
In none of these activities I have described did I or have I ever felt reprimanded of the Lord for being to bold. Only remorse for being too timid.
Brethren and sisters it is my witness that we can do this.
LDSA thank you again. I am on board. I look forward to the reading challenge. Oh yes the words of Jesus are unequaled.
PS where was the crazy part?
Oh yeah LDS official state religion. Don’t know about that. I believe it is sufficient for the prophesy to be fulfilled for the conference center to fall. The US government is in a different branch of the great and abominable. It will be enough if they just let it follow it’s course. But there does have to be murders of the innocent but if these happen by state sponsored means this is a trip wire to a relatively quick destruction nothing like the Spanish inquisition. But rather like 3 Nephi 6 and US civil war which destroyed 1/4 the male population of the US for not having brought anyone to justice for Joseph’s murder.
Wow, dyc4557! What wonderful experiences! I’m so glad to hear of this. Very inspiring, edifying stuff.
I wonder if you are a long term member or a fairly new member? My experience with new or recent members is that they seem more prone to have such manifestations attend them. The best example of which is one recent convert to the church that I met while on my mission. I was transferred into the area and my companion was kind of freaked out by her, as she claimed to be receiving MANY daily revelations and other manifestations. I always looked forward to the times we got to meet with her as the conversation always revolved around Christ. She was totally Christ-centered, through and through, and she was living a life of abundant, daily manifestations, which she happily communicated to all around her. In my conversations with her, I discerned only truth and felt the Spirit manifest continuously as we spoke. I cannot quantify how great a portion of the Spirit she had; I only know it was a greater portion than anyone I’ve ever known, including myself. It has left an indelible impression upon me, even after all these years.
Other new converts and recent members, though in no way approaching her level, have also, in my experience, typically manifested a higher portion of the Spirit than long term members. I believe that the difference between these people is that of actually worshipping God and just going through the motions.
To illustrate what I mean by that, here’s a story, also from my mission. One day, during elders quorum meeting, the branch president was giving a lesson on worship. This was a big, gruff man, an intimidating man, and so, when he opened up the lesson with the question, “Who do we worship?”, none of the elders raised their hands.
Well, it just so happened that I was studying that very topic in the scriptures during the past week, so I gave him my full understanding of that question. I raised my hand and answered him, “We worship God the Father, in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, by the power of the Holy Ghost.” He looked at me in shock and then said, “Amen” and sat down, stating that that was the entire lesson and that class was dismissed.
Through that singular experience, in which he and I saw eye to eye, something that had rarely, if ever, happened to either of us, I gained a special place in his heart and I remember being surprised to see that he was shedding tears when news that I was leaving the area got around. No one had ever seen the big man so emotional, especially over a missionary who had spent so little time in the area. For my own part, he also had impressed the heck out of me, especially during a baptismal service in which, in all his gruffness, he stood at the podium and testified loudly over and over again of the truths of the gospel, scaring half the membership to death, making my companion embarrassed and fearful that we would lose the investigators that we had brought with the scene he was giving, yet, during it all, I was beaming and inwardly shouting for joy, for I could feel the Spirit manifesting and testifying of the truthfulness of his words. It was an amazingly powerful service I will never forget. And, I might add, our investigators were mesmerized by the power they felt and desired to learn more.
But anyway, back to my point. I will break it down. Who do we worship? If we worship the Father in our own name, or in the name of another, or in the names of others, WE DON’T WORSHIP THE FATHER. And if we worship the Father in the name of Jesus Christ by our own power, or by the power of another, or by the power of others, WE DON’T WORSHIP THE FATHER. This was the lesson that branch president had intended to give. It was the same lesson that lady I met on my mission taught me. She talked of Christ and rejoiced in Christ, etc., living the scripture found in 2 Ne. 25: 26, plus, she worked by the power of the Holy Ghost. In other words, she actually worshipped the Father and the Father manifested His works in her life. It was marvellous to behold.
I totally agree with you. I am firm on the conference center thing, but I think the state religion thing is quite a stretch. I, personally, do not believe the state religion bit.
However, that said, what bothers me is that these thoughts came, seemingly from nowhere, in rapid fire manner, in all the same day, each one building on the last. This is not out of the ordinary. It may just be my mind working, doing some imaginative, behind-the-scenes work. The previous day I had been reading that post that got me thinking along these lines and I thought that I needed to inquire of the Lord for more information, but I never did inquire. I just let the concept drop, as I couldn’t (the day before) see how it could fit. It may have been that while I was engaged in other things my brain was secretly working on an imaginary solution and when the solution was finally made concrete, it popped the thoughts into my conscious mind. There is no evidence of inspiration and it definitely wasn’t revelation, so I’m just going to stick to labelling them crazy thoughts.
However, again I say, however, in my experience, especially of late, I have found myself prophesying too much. By that I mean that sometimes I will give an opinion on the future, for little things, daily things dealing with my own little sphere, and I’ll state it as a possibility. But other times, i’ll give my thoughts on the future and I’ll state it as a certainty, meaning that I am certain (or have faith) that it will happen (or won’t happen). The words just come out that way sometimes, based upon whether I have faith or not in the thing stated. Many times what is stated appears to be just absurd to those around who hear it spoken, for there doesn’t appear to be any way for its fulfillment. Over the years I’ve made a lot of such statements, all the while thinking they were just my thoughts on the future. But lately these statements have started to be fulfilled, precisely as stated, and people around me have begun to take notice.
What I mean by this is that this gift to prophesy appears to be developing at an accelerated rate. Since joining the church, the first gift I recognized having was the discernment of spirits. Over the years this gift has been developed, so that I’m now confident in using it. Also, since before joining the church I had received revelations. At some point during my church membership, upon looking over the body of personal revelations I had received, it dawned on me that some of these revelations were prophecies of the future, some of which had been fulfilled in the most miraculous and impossible of ways. I then began to wonder if I also had the gift to prophesy. Once I recognized the revelations as prophecies, the gift to prophesy started to manifest more readily and I learned that I actually did have this gift. It is still nowhere near as developed as my other gift, but now I’m finding that I sometimes “slip” into a prophetic mode, in which thoughts and words are spoken as prophecies, even without me realizing it, until after they have been spoken or thought. Sometimes I’ll get an immediate confirmation from the Spirit that I had just spoken or thought a prophecy, but other times I need to go to the Lord and ask if the thought or words are true.
So, with the above thoughts, concerning a state church, I have not inquired of the Lord, nor do I intend to. The conference center thing is sufficient for me. Other prophets, should they feel so inclined, can say whether these thoughts are prophetic or merely imagination. But I thought I’d share them anyway, as they make for an interesting read.
dyc4557,
Thanks so much for sharing those experiences.
“Then as I read using the priesthood for everything section I got real excited….LDSA you need to add to your list at least one more who has used his priesthood to command the powers of heaven to be brought to bear against the powers of darkness in this world, specifically and repeatedly. I will now resume these effort and maintain them.
Brothers and sister I am up for this. I can do this.”
I, too, am committed to do these things. The proverbial list can have another name added to it.
I respond first to both the comments by LDSA and Justin , Brothers I rejoice in your reception of my comments. D&C 50 :22 came to my mind 22 “Wherefore, he that preacheth and he that receiveth, understand one another, and both are edified and rejoice together.” and tears of gratitude to our Father in Heaven welled up in my eyes. When I experience things like that I feel it is my duty to get on my knees and thank God for His blessing. Which I did. And surely God is blessing you, LSDA, with happiness that your efforts are blessing others. And I assure you they are.
Now to answer the question you spoke of; my parents joined the church before I was born. I was raised in the church but in a place where being a mormon was rare and we had a closeness between the members because of it. I have seen how some Utah mormons live their religion and can not comprehend it. When I was just 7 years old (possibly 6) I had a thought come into my mind, “To be good means to do what is right even if the prophet said you didn’t have to.” Possibly the thought was “even if the prophet said not to do it. But either way it was a strange thought. But I was less than 8 and know now that Satan could not speak to my mind. I understand obedience is between me and God. Your writings have opened my mind to how this precept may be very key to many in a day to come.
As a youth of about 17 I read the Pearl of Great Price and decided I wanted the same blessings Abraham sought. I wanted exaltation. I sensed that there may be costs (trials etc) to obtain this blessing that I could not then comprehend. I prayed with real intent and I guess you could say I made a covenant with Heavenly Father. I asked if He would bring into my life all the experiences needed to prepare me for exaltation and for my part I would keep trying to do my best regardless of what the experiences might be.
When I read the Lectures on Faith I understood that only through the medium of sacrifice and that of all things can we have faith unto life and salvation ( I take that as exaltation with Him).
Well God has answered my prayer and despite trials and loses I never thought in a million years to have to endure I have endured and remained steadfast in my faith in God. I can’t even explain it because people think, “Wait that’s not possible. God is just. He doesn’t make people lose those things if they stay true to Him.”
Well I am not in his league but check out what Amulek lost.
So I am now grateful to God for my opportunity to experience these events. And with it I now know that I have been obeying Him that the course of my life has His approval.
What more could I want?
But I am going forth to use the priesthood to build a place here where the true faith can be lived. My son and his wife are reading thee things also. We are setting out to live the law of consecration. We are striving to serve in our callings valiantly. We are striving to teach these concepts in our branch and district as we can. And Satan is trying to destroy our efforts. He is trying to raise contentions in our families. But we know where it is coming from. It is a testimony to us that we are on the right path.
I am willing to die for the truth. I am willing to live for the truth. I am willing to be rejected for the truth. I am even willing to skip a siesta and walk in the hot sun to visit a family for the truth.
Miracles can happen. And if we consciously work after the manner of God they will increase in number and depth. I agree with Mormon, “for after this manner doth he work.”
As I was reading thru the Nephite ministry of Jesus Day 1 this evening, I spotted some extra gifts the He gives that could be added to the list you provided in this post:
The power to baptize
To be the salt of the earth
To be the light of this people
Food and clothing [He says, “all these things shall be added unto you.”]
I joined
Well we have been trying it, that is using the priesthood for more things than just administrative and set ordinances. The enemy of God does not want us to pursue this course. All the more reason to press ahead.
I believe there are at least 3 levels of obedience which the Lord will test us on. [this actually applies so bear with me]. The telestial level requires that we not do evil things, that we refrain from doing things that harm others. The terrestrial level in cludes everything in the telestial level and adds that we do somethings that are a benefit to others. This requires a degree of service and sacrifice like paying tithing and doing home teaching. Both of these classes of action bring blessings. If you look at it if we live those levels we can obtain a recommend to enter the temple.
But the next level is that we do good and sacrifice then are rewarded evil for it. But because we have true faith we are undeterred and just increase our trust and faith in God. Abraham is the example of this as well as the prophet Joseph and Joseph of Egypt.
So as we give blessings will more faith and more boldly call for miracles when we are supposed to and in short as we try to live all the doctrines of God He will give us experience that will try our faith.
At times we will pronounce a blessing feeling sure that we have spoken words of faith only to see things turn out differently. The person was not healed only by the priesthood. We ended up going to the doctor and they did surgery, yet the person was healed with their help. What then do we give up and say lets just trust in man and say, “Hey Lord whatever you want since it seems like it dini’t do any good to give a blessing.”?
Do we only exercise faith when we get paid a blessing. A blessing being what we feel should happen, get good for doing good. The test of getting bad for doing good provides us an opportunity to exercise a greater degree of faith. We can not climb a mountain that is not there. Unless God gives us such challenges we can not develop this greater faith and pass into the realm of higher obedience.
My advice is whatever you do just keep exercising your faith in the God of miracles.
I bear witness that what LDSA said about reading the words of Christ is true. The Father is calling upon me daily in to bless multiple lives in many ways. I will keep doing it .
Wonderful! Please keep us informed. I had a friend over last night and several of the things that you mentioned in this comment came up in our discussions. Another strange case of synchronicity…
I wonder if Mitt Romney will not be set up as the next president of the U.S. Mormonism does not have to be a state religion necessarily, but it makes perfect sense that it will become more than socially acceptable even popular. And the scenarios of state involvement are not in the least bit crazy. There are signs that the secret combinations themselves are going to place Romney in that position. It just lines up very interestingly with the prophecies discussed regarding apostasy within the church of God (big P.R. push to align LDS with mainstream Christianity), Ephriamites becoming the most wicked people upon the face of the earth AND it casts the fulfilling of the prophet Joseph’s mission in a whole new light considering the possibility that the “Leader” of the “Free” World might have made the same covenants as Joseph Smith. The whole “Honorable Pres. Elect” thing is seen in a very dramatic light when you think also that it might all sync up with the year 2012. Hmmmm. What do yall think?
Well elderchantdown I saw your post and while doing research for a comment about the secret combinations post found something quite incredible. First for you that are reading this. The Council on Foreign Relations is an organization of members of the secret combinations in our day according to Ezra Taft Benson and numerous others. They hatch plans and then work to implement them through the US government. There are sister organizations in all of the major so called “world democracies”. Many US presidents have been members of the CFR. In fact now it is practically a prerequisite to being nominated by the two leading parties. Anyone who is aware of the SC in our day understands the CFR is a major player getting Satan’s plan implemented. George Bush the first’s infamous New World Order speech was given at the CFR, himself being a member. The ideas they put forth seem to sooner or later happen.
So with that intro I suggest you read this article from the CFR’s own website.
http://www.cfr.org/publication/15311/what_is_it_about_mormonism.html
By the way Mitt Romney is a member of the CFR.
Fantastic article, dyc4557! The second-to-last paragraph, in particular, caught my attention:
Bold emphasis mine. Makes me wonder if the author did not think that Mormonism was destined to follow in Catholicism’s footsteps. It may be that the CFR put that article on its web site not just to inform about Mormonism, but as kind of a hidden heads up on “the future plan” of Mormonism.
Along these same lines, three days ago I had a new thought pop into my head. I was reading The Latest in the Prop 8 Fight over at the Mormon Matters blog, when it dawned on me how same-sex marriage would be introduced into the church. You can read it here. I also made another comment about this here.
Essentially, back before the Prop 8 vote, I got the spiritual impression that the Mormon church was being set up, that Prop 8 and the Church’s call to members to contribute time and money to its passage, was part of a satanic plan to destroy the church. That’s all I got and I was left to wonder how this Proposition could destroy our church. I remember some fearful writings of different people about it causing our church to perform SSM sealings in the temple, but I couldn’t see how that could happen.
Well, two years have passed and now I’ve got more information, concerning the break-up of the church and the step-in of the State. If the Supreme Court rules in favor of SSM, all that is needed is the “assimilation” (using the above author’s word) of the Mormon church into the State, as the State religion, and you will then see same-sex couples being sealed in our temples.
A couple of other things. Concerning Mitt Romney: I think the fear with Romney is that he’ll do the bidding of the Mormon church hierarchy. I don’t really see Mormon theology as the real reason for suspicion about a Romney presidency. I think most people can get past that. But fanaticism, or having a sitting president following his prophet-leader, is not something that would sit well with the American people. So, it is the church leadership, I believe, that is in the way of a Romney presidency. If, then, of a sudden, that leadership were no longer there, I think it would pave the way for Romney to become president of the United States.
If this is true, and there is a plan to put Romney as the president in 2012, there actually might be incentive for evil and conspiring men to…say…help out a certain earthquake on a certain fault at a certain time of the year, even planting specific weapons below or within a certain building years before to make sure that it was definitely taken out during the time of that earthquake….perhaps, even, that earthquake could be caused somehow…and it would be the “cover” to the real attack on that certain building and those certain men in that building…
dyc4557 once asked me, “For now might it not be completely possible that satan inspired men would bring down the conference center?” This question was actually posed to me a few years ago by a friend of mine, who thought it probable that a bomb would take out the leadership during some future conference. I wasn’t sure when he brought up the topic back then, and I wasn’t sure when d7c4557 asked me recently. But right now, as of today, I think this idea may have some merit.
Pure speculation, I know, but if this is a long term, satanic plan to introduce “all manner of iniquity” into the church (as it has been prophesied), this scenario might fit…
One last thing
I noticed recently that the gifts of the Spirit are put into specific groups in D&C 46. Here are the groups:
Knowing “that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he was cruicified for the sins of the world” is grouped with believing on the words of those who have this knowledge.
Knowing “the differences of administration” is in its own group.
Knowing “the diversities of operations” is in its own group.
The “word of wisdom” and the “word of knowledge” are grouped together.
“Faith to be healed” and “faith to heal” are grouped together.
The “working of miracles”, the gift “to prophesy”, and the “discerning of spirits” are grouped together.
Finally, “speaking with tongues” and the “interpretation of tongues” are grouped together.
I find this interesting because of my own experience with the gifts. I have the discerning of spirits but then I got another gift, the gift to prophesy, and I have often remarked (to myself) that my gift to prophesy seems almost to be an extension or related somehow to my gift to discern spirits. One gift is fairly developed (discerning), while the more recent gift (prophesying) I’m still learning how to handle. So, the new gift has got me back on square one, trying to figure it out. Recently, as I was pondering about this new gift, I thought back on the last 10 years of my life and did a mental accounting of the miracles that had happened to me. My mind then put the words “miracle”, “prophesy” and “discerning” together and D&C 46 came to my recollection. When I looked the section up, I noticed that these three gifts were grouped together. (Also that the other gifts were put into groups.)
This got me thinking that the various groups were because of some close relation and that it might be easier for a person to acquire a new gift from the group that their current gift comes from. This might be the reason why I jumped into prophecy from discerning so easily. It might also mean that I might be able to go from having miracles happen in my life (a routine occurrence) to actually working miracles (the next stage of development of the gift).
It may be that my experience with the gifts is not unique. I’d be curious to learn if anyone else has obtained two or more gifts and if those gifts have been in the same D&C 46 groupings. If there is a pattern to this, there may be a systemic way to obtain all the gifts, by seeking the gifts within the group, or the gift listed closest (above or below) the gift one has, as those gifts may be listed in that order because of closeness of relation, facilitating its acquisition.
LDSA your comment brought something to my mind.
Each time I read 4th Nephi I look at the different churches mentioned as the Nephites began getting real bad. I used to think of them in the same light as we LDS view churches which were present just before the Lord restored His church. But they were not of that type. They were all former churches of Christ. They each could trace their line of authority to Christ. Yes apostate but different in a very significant way from say any protestant church. And this verse in particular has made me pause and ponder.
27 And it came to pass that when *two hundred and ten years had passed away there were many churches in the land; yea, there were many churches which professed to know the Christ, and yet they did deny the more parts of his gospel, insomuch that they did receive all manner of wickedness, and did administer that which was sacred unto him to whom it had been forbidden because of unworthiness.
It never sat well with me to say this was the sacrament of the Lord supper which we do every week in Sacrament meeting. That can happen without even the leadership trying to make it happen. But in LDSA’a comment he mentioned same sex marriage in the temple. BING that fits the bill to this verse. And also the apostate “churches” [read former stakes of the LDS] will follow the same pattern as the churches mentioned here. They are all authority bearing organizations now perverted. And then verses 29 and 30 mention yet another church which exercised authority sufficient to cast the three remaining Nephite apostles into prison. You can’t do that unless your church has been combined with the state.
My (ex) gifts are as follows
Blessing of Health (was in my PB)
To be healed (specifically by my brother who has the gift to do it)
To Discern Spirits (lost it ever since a sequence of certain experiences, thank god)
Visions (not deja vu, I’m pretty certain)
Interpretations (of and on…but basically everything not in a foreign language)
Wisdom (Don’t mistake my ambition for arrogance)
Knowledge (pre-conceived knowledge of symbols and doctrines never yet taught to me)
Prophesy (limited by deja vu like episodes in relation to individuals I am closely acquainted with…and some political stuff…like what Beck’s next move is)
I have been reading the most recent post about the Seeds of Godliness and the information about the Gifts of the Spirit.
But I comment here because i think this is where I listed or answered which spiritual gifts I think I have.
After reading what a gift really is and praying about somethings I believe now that I may not have the spiritual gifts I said I might have.
I have this for sure that I know that God lives and loves me and He is my literal father this was by the power fo the Holy Ghost and was so strong I have never had any doubt of it since. I would say that since the Father and Son are one I know that Jesus lives also. I also have a witness of the Spirit real strong that the Book of Mormon is true.
I also have the gift to believe on the words of others and the Lord mentions in 3 Nephi 12 Blessed are they that have not seen and yet will believe on your words.
I have never seen a spiritual manifestation. I have never seen the Father or the Son. I have never seen an angel. I was sitting next to a person (my missionary companion) when he saw the spirit of one of the former prophets at a temple rededication. I saw nothing other than what my physical eyes see.
I have prayed to see the things Nephi saw and also the brother of Jared. Why does that sound crazy? Jesus says when we have faith as did the brother of Jared He will show us the same things.
So I am a gentile. One who probably will never in the flesh see Jesus. I mourn about that. I don’t know where I lack in my faith. I trust that this manner of treating me by the Lord is for my benefit. Many of His children will never receive the truth or even the ordinances in this life by His decree. But I am sure it does not bar them from eternal life with Him. On the contrary for them it is essential that He treat them this way.
Now I think if I were willing to I could have the gift of Healing. Because there are several times when the person was o the point of death and the fact that they recovered was not but a miracle.
So I will see.
dyc4557,
Thanks for sharing that. Your honesty in regards to your gifts has prompted me to do likewise:
The Holy Spirit was witnessed to me that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he was crucified for the sins of the world. I am not convinced that his sonship is a function of Father providing his Y chromosome or if it is a matter of adoption. I am not convinced that he lived what we would term a “sinless” life because I have received no witness that penal substitution is a true model for the atonement.
I have come to believe things based on the words of others. I have read things here and have discussed things with people I know that rang true to my ears and have tasted true to me. I believe that Joseph saw Jesus and Father, Moroni, and other angels — as he said he did. I believe the things that he taught. I believe in the record he translated.
I have never seen the Father or the Son or angels. I have not communed with spirits. I have recieved messages in the form of dreams that have answered specific questions I had prayed about. However, they do not happen everytime I pray for them. I have pleaded with God to speak with me in person — even just one word — so that I could see Him like others have. My faith is insufficient because all I’ve gotten was silence. My daughter (4 yrs) has reported manifestations of Jesus and of angels to me. I have received a witness that her visions are true and am awed that such things are happening in my home. She is a blessing to us.
I received faith enough to be healed on one occasion. When I contracted salmonella, I obtained a priesthood anointing — and that very night, as I slept, my fever broke and I awoke the next morning with no symptoms. Other than that, I have received three priesthood anointings that did not heal me — I just got better eventually.
I have administered priesthood anointings frequently to my wife and children, but have only found that they just get better eventually.
I have only obtained knowledge or wisdom thru study and expierence, never as a spiritual gift.
I have discerned the spirits of people I was speaking with, however — I do not believe it was by the spirit of God, but rather my own wisdom.
I have never seen the gift of tongues manifested, and therefore never the interpretation of tongues. I have witnessed Pentacostal sects speaking in what they term the gift of tongues, but I received no witness that the event was of God.
You stated, So I am a gentile. One who probably will never in the flesh see Jesus. I have never thought about it in those terms before. It saddened me to think of that for myself as well.
What is all this talk of Gentiles not seeing Jesus in the flesh? There are people who have commented on this blog who have claimed to have seen both the Father and the Son, and yet they are Gentiles. Since when is a Gentile limited in the manifestations of the Spirit? What is available to an Israelite is available to a Gentile. At least, in my experience, the Spirit has never once told me, “No. You cannot have that. That is reserved for Israelites.” Instead, the Spirit has only indicated to me that whatever I desire and seek (ask for) will be given to me. And yet, I’m a Gentile.
I have known people who also believe that Gentiles cannot see Christ in this life time.
The belief seems to come from a misinterpretation of several scriptures in the BofM.
Two of the primary ones are founds in 3 Nephi
3 Ne. 15: 23
23 And they understood me not that I said they shall hear my voice; and they understood me not that the Gentiles should not at any time hear my voice—that I should not manifest myself unto them save it were by the Holy Ghost.
3 Ne. 16: 6-7
6 And blessed are the Gentiles, because of their belief in me, in and of the Holy Ghost, which witnesses unto them of me and of the Father.
7 Behold, because of their belief in me, saith the Father, and because of the unbelief of you, O house of Israel, in the latter day shall the truth come unto the Gentiles, that the fulness of these things shall be made known unto them.
Some people interpret the above passages to imply that Christ only appears to the pure remnants of Israel but will not or cannot appear to a Gentile. The belief is that a Gentile can only know that Jesus is the Christ through the promptings of the spirit.
Of course another way to interpret the passages is that Christ is not going to descend from heaven and physically visit the Gentiles the way he did the Nephites, but rather, through the power of the Holy Ghost, he will reveal himself, both at the faith/belief level and also at the parting of the heavens level, while being transfigured by the Holy Ghost.
Joseph, Sidney and Lyman all considered themselves to be Gentiles and they all saw the Father and the Son.
The Book of Mormon indicates that there will be an appointed time when additional records come forth, when the righteous gentiles, repent and can see Christ.
It reveals that at that time, both the Gentiles and the House of Israel will rend the veil of unbelief and see what the brother of Jared saw.
6 For the Lord said unto me: They shall not go forth unto the Gentiles until the day that they shall repent of their iniquity, and become clean before the Lord.
7 And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are.
13 Come unto me, O ye Gentiles, and I will show unto you the greater things, the knowledge which is hid up because of unbelief.
14 Come unto me, O ye house of Israel, and it shall be made manifest unto you how great things the Father hath laid up for you, from the foundation of the world; and it hath not come unto you, because of unbelief.
15 Behold, when ye shall rend that veil of unbelief which doth cause you to remain in your awful state of wickedness, and hardness of heart, and blindness of mind, then shall the great and marvelous things which have been hid up from the foundation of the world from you—yea, when ye shall call upon the Father in my name, with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, then shall ye know that the Father hath remembered the covenant which he made unto your fathers, O house of Israel.
16 And then shall my revelations which I have caused to be written by my servant John be unfolded in the eyes of all the people. Remember, when ye see these things, ye shall know that the time is at hand that they shall be made manifest in very deed.
PS, I am not trying to put words on the mouth of Justin and dyc4557 perhaps they have other reasons for their beliefs, or maybe they were not really saying what it appears they were saying, etc. …
Brethren thank you fro coming to my rescue with more sound doctrine. I doubt that a “reproof” has ever been so welcomed by the object of the correction. To be a little less obtuse; thanks for finding fault with my faulty ideas. I really appreciate the “rebuke”!
Both of you LDSA and OWIW have spoken sound words. Obviously there are those who desire to destroy my faith in the Lord’s love for me and all of us. I must have been listening to that evil one. I guess such an attack makes perfect sense in light of my stated goal to have a channel of revelation between me and God to the same degree that Lehi and Alma the Elder had. So that at the appropriate time I can if needed follow God’s direction to establish or maintain a church body amongst my friends and family.
So to HELL with these faithless thoughts.
I will renew my faith that at the appropriate time I can receive clear revelation from God. I now remember a blessing I received from a missionary on my mission. He was the one who saw the angels and also healed a by of blindness and who had such a strong spirit of prophesy when he laid hands on your head to give you a blessing. He blessed me and told me of things that only I and the Lord knew. He told me I would be receiving a new calling shortly and a change of scenery. Then he blessed me that I would receive revelation from God in full sentences.
Of course other things were in the blessing too all of which have been literally fulfilled. At the time I was in Phoenix, AZ. I had been there in that metro area for over a year. But within three weeks I was called to be a zone leader in the white mountain area of northeast Arizona. A real change of scenery. And then within a couple weeks my whole zone was placed in a new mission. For over 3 weeks we had no contact from the new mission. I began writing instructions for my missionaries. I typed a page of principles that they should live to accomplish the work of the Lord in our area. I was about to present it to them in the next couple days. I received a phone call from the assistants to the presidents of the new mission. they were coming to visit me. Finally some direction and contact.
They came about 3 hours later. They asked how we were and what we were doing. I explained about the letter I had written to teach to my missionaries. The one senior assistant asked to see it. I showed it to him. He read and then called his companion saying, “Elder come look at this.” The other elder read and they both marveled. He looked at me and said, “This is nearly verbatim what the new mission president has sent us to tell you.” They told my companion and I the “marching orders” of the new president and they were right.
So the of course I saw the blessing fulfilled in that aspect.
So if i did it once I can do it again. I am sure of that.
OWIW you are correct those were the scriptures I was thinking of.
And as you recount those scriptures and point out the collective nature of their application, meaning the Lord seems to indicate that the “greater things” will be with held from all until certain things happen. This is corroborated by some powerful information written by Tom here :http://truthmarche.wordpress.com/ under the post Personal and Institutional Rejection of Him. So from the Spirit I get the impression that the lack of direct and full revelation to me is not quite so personal as it is over all of us. Meaning He is not going to reveal an overt course of action for me and mine till the time is right for us to take it. And so I will need to keep seeking diligently to keep waiting on Him and not slumber in the false idea that “the brethren” will tell me if I need to do anything.
Again thank you brothers. I will then continue to seek His face and to seek for the best gifts without fear that I am not “worthy” because I am a gentile. I should have remembered what Nephi told me in 2Nephi 30:2 “For behold, I say unto you that as many of the Gentiles as will repent are the covenant people of the Lord”
Sorry Justin for the false leading. We are not under any “gentile” curse if we are truly repentant.
I stated that I had never thought about a Gentile association leading to not seeing Jesus. I have never, previous to reading dyc4557’s comment, attributed my lack of physical manifestation of the personages of the Godhead with my lineage — only my lack of faith.
It saddened me to hear what dyc4557 said, when I thought of that in reference to myself.
I indeed did think of 3 Nephi 15:23 and 16:6-7 — but, OWIW, I’m glad to read the other scriptures you posted in your comment.
The break-up of the church is being discussed at
http://www.wheatandtares.org/2010/10/18/history-of-fundamentalist-mormons/#comment-1036
if anyone is interested in joining the conversation.
Oops, the image appeared too wide:
You should see displayed the current state of the Church of Christ, in which the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (TM) maintains about 98% of the total members.
This supports the claim that the Church firmly holds the keys of the church.
What will be interesting is what this graph will look like after the earthquake.
It’s interesting the size difference. But I wonder if those huge numbers were gained by diluting and changing the gospel. Also should we consider just general church membership or those who are actually converted to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
But then again not many of the other sects have remained pure either. I still believe that each of the main sects hold a piece of the original Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Only through pruifying ourselves and reuniting with our brethren will we see the fulfillment of Zion.
Brighamites – Quorum of the Twelve(Keys?). Maybe you could include the Council of Fifty and Anointed Quorum, but these have been lost in this chruch.
Community of Christ – Joseph Smith III was ordained multiple times to be Joseph Jr.’s successor.
Strangites – Book of the Law of the Lord was supposedly translated from the brass plates.
Church of Christ(Temple Lot) – the Temple Lot. The building of the City of Zion must begin with the temple constructed on their land.
Fundementalists – According to the meeting with John Taylor a select group of men where given authority to continue Plural Marriages no matter what the main church did.
There is not one sect that containes every part of the restoration.
I was showing the diagram more as a representation of the keys of the church being held firmly by the LDS, while all sects may retain priesthood keys — not so much as a claim that clearly the LDS church (TM) is doing things right.
I agree that the “world-wide” church (TM) came with diluting the brand — much like the difference between small craft brews of beer vs. the national chain, watered-down brands.
As to earthquakes, could the fall of the conference center, were it to happen, occur via an overabundance of rain/waterfall or something similar in the area? For example, if enough rain fell that the “city creek” or creek running downtown became too large, could that then present structural problems for the conference center and other buildings downtown – enough so that the same effect (i.e. earthquake like destruction) occur? Case in point, this is from the most recent SOTTC report:
“Note that [destructive climate change] is indicated to include [ripple-on (cascading) disasters] as [natural events] will [induce/cause disaster] in [human infrastructure]. The detail layers of this set are repetitiously filled with aspect/attribute sets for such links as [excessive rains] and [destroyed dams]. Or [excessive rains (flooding)] and [destroyed water systems (potable/waste)], or [excessive rains (flooding)], and [destroyed roads]. …. As an aside, the [excessive rains] sub set is going to be affecting all kinds of infrastructure globally over the Winter of 2010/2011 and well into Summer 2011 {ed note: the farthest out we can push the values now}. The … elements cited …include [roads/roadways], [canals/harbors/marinas], …, [conference centers], [churches], [cemetaries], [rail yards], [subway systems], [electrical systems], [communication systems], [internet delivery], and [satellite systems] among many others. … the [satellite systems] are going to be … one of the larger emotional pressures as it will also affect [telephony service].”
It only caught my attention as it pertains to this post based on the “conference centers” and “churches” language.
[Those words in [brackets] are written as such as these are the precise language used by the web spiders in culling information, so the terms [conference centers] and [churches] were contained as such without any editing. It takes a little time getting used to reading it that way, but it’s interesting.]
Jesus kicked out of a Lutheran church — wonder how long until the real Savior is expelled from our congregations?
Hmm. I wonder too what would happen if someone dressed like that went to one of our churches. I thought we were not supposed to worry about what people look like on the outside.
Hmm. I wonder too what would happen if someone dressed like that went to one of our churches.
Only one way to find out
Well there are different ways to obtain knowledge. One is by experimentation do it and find out. Another is by piecing together known facts and applying them to the question at hand. I think that is deduction. It makes it possible to discover things when an experiment is impossible.
I watched the video. I don’t know all what would happen if one went to and LDS sacrament meeting dressed that way. But one fact I can be sure of you not be allowed to pass or bless the emblems of the Lord’s supper.
Why? Because you are wearing sandals and you are not wearing a tie. Remember where the Lord said, “Ye shall not suffer anyone among you to knowingly bless the emblems of my body unless they are wearing the symbols of Babylonian culture.”
Neither do I.
A site is claiming to know that Jesus will return on May 21, 2011.
Not really related to this post, but I noticed something funny in the site stats today.
There were two hits to this site from someone searching how to pad his resume with having been an LDS bishop. The search term he used was:
Out of curiosity — I typed that search term into a search engine — and the last entry on the first page of results was this post.
The text associated with the search result said:
Probably not what he was looking for. Who knows — maybe this post converted him?
LDSA: You may be on to something with the grouping of the gifts of the Spirit. I’ve been blessed with the gift of discernment of spirits throughout my life, and have sporadically experienced the gift of prophecy on a few occasions. Most of my experiences with prophecy came as deja vu — except beyond just feeling I remembered the current event, I could “remember” what was going to happen next as well, which infallibly happened.
My latest experience with prophecy, however, was a direct combination of the two gifts. I was walking early one morning about a year and a half ago — a regular morning walk at the time to get to the trolley (train) station that would take me to the University I was attending. This time I saw two men a ways away from me, and I distinctly discerned an evil spirit accompanying these men. At the same time I got the impression that these two men intended to rob me, however for some reason I was unable to alter my course and had the comforting feeling that I was going to get out of it alright.
Needless to say, these two men tackled me and took about $30 that I had in my pockets, along with my passport, drivers’ license, and any other cards I had at the time. For some reason they didn’t search anything beyond my pockets; they even left untouched the backpack I was wearing at the time. Afterwards I felt no malice toward my attackers (perhaps another gift of the Spirit) and have since been impressed at how clear and detailed was my understanding of what was going to happen shortly before the event.
Looking back I can also see the purpose of that event, and my curious inability to change my route and avoid it. The domino effect of many minor results of that robbery have resulted in changes in my life from which I have benefited greatly.
From The Late Corporation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints v. United States:
and
or as stated in the OP…when the Mormon church gets broken up by the earthquake, the assets of the church, which are huge (lots of prime real estate, etc.), become a problem, a legal problem. Everyone fights over the assets and can’t come to an agreement as to what property goes to whom.
The government, then, steps in to resolve the issue and takes over the property, deciding who gets what, giving to this former stake president these buildings, etc. The government does not relinquish the central buildings that still stand after the earthquake, specifically, the Salt Lake Temple, being the icon of the former church, as everyone wants it and makes a claim on it.
The government takes over other general church properties, etc., leaving the meetinghouses, and some of the temples, in the hands of the now broken up individual Mormon churches. But the Salt Lake Temple and perhaps other temples, remain state owned, just as the parable of the redemption of Zion indicated that the enemy will take over the tower (temple.) See D&C 101: 43-62.
Also, it probably applies more to a plural marriage post — but I also read this:
Wow — monogamy represents the enlightened sentiment of mankind — never would have called it that.
It was interesting also to compare the Articles of Incorporation (1851) that Congress dissolved in 1890 with that of the one incorporating the church in 1917 by Heber Grant and amended later by Harold Lee:
versus
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/innercircleradio/2012/09/17/unholy-union-making-the-mormon-wizard-of-oz
Tune in and call in if the Spirit moves you… tonight at 9pm PST
this earthquake will be our own doing
http://www.fracfocusdata.org/fracfocusfind/
http://stateimpact.npr.org/texas/tag/earthquake/
http://www.seis.utah.edu/
i am not sure if this made it into the news or not. about (i think) 6 months ago the tabernacle and temple were retrofitted (again) to be more seismically secure. they ended up disturbing a few native american graves in the process. i will speak to my father to find more specific information on this
http://www.adamsandsmith.com/tabernacle-on-temple-square/
I was reading “A Foot Washing Jesuit” and before I finished it I popped over and re-read On Francis, Posted by Ann Barnhardt – March 14, AD 2013 10:34 AM MST and then a question came into my mind, “Will the Roman Catholic Church undergo a scattering, also?” The thought gave me chills. Then I went back and finished the first post and found that the second to the last paragraph ends with, “Such subversive acts by any church leader would cause him to lose his Chief Seat in short order or else his church would collapse and “great must be the fall thereof.””
I do not know what to make of this thought, except to wonder whether the dark plan is to reform the present systems into a more “perfect” dark order (the GAAC) by first destroying the current orders. In other words, instead of consolidation of the diverse orders and then an attempt at reformation into a single entity, the plan is to first destroy, then consolidate what is left into the single entity, so that people more readily accept the new order and do not hold on to their previous (now extinct) traditions.
i wouldn’t read too much into those blogs. the vast majority of catholics i have talked to are very excited about francis, especially about the possibility of him calling another council and perhaps trying for reunification with the eastern churches again. sure if he keeps it up some very conservative traditional types could end up leaving the church, but most catholics are excited to see the changes.
“Next, he’s a Jesuit. Now, I must disclose that I have a deep personal, seething, visceral hatred of Jesuits, but my hatred of them is a corollary to the fact that they long ago descended into truly evil heresies and apostasy. Jesuits, in addition to being a cult of sodomites who hate God, are also … wait for it … Marxists. Now Francis has in the past put up some token resistance to so-called “Liberation theology”, which is just Communist Totalitarianism in religious drag, but he is huge, huge, huge on “social justice”, which is merely code for Marxism. This guy’s worldview revolves around giving people free stuff because it’s nice, which as we have discussed is contrary to logic and reason, specifically in the subset of mathematics, and thus is contrary to Our Lord who is FIRST the Logos, with the Divine Caritas (charity) proceeding out of the Logos” – this shows how small of a minority this view represents.
however, if you beleive the prophecy of the popes, francis should be the last pope ever.
Oh, I don’t care one way or another about what people believe about this Pope. My interest is in the spirit of prophecy and revelation. Madson’s statement was most certainly made tongue-in-cheek. I’m sure he and many others see no way whatsoever that the Catholic Church would/could collapse. They Catholic believers certainly don’t think so. And those who already believe that the Catholic Church is the GAAC likely only see a further increase in its power and reach. If anyone is seriously considering the end of that church, they believe it will happen at the Second Coming, when the Lord takes control of it (for the believers) or when the Lord destroys it (for the unbelievers).
I don’t put any weight on the prophecy of the popes. I’m more concerned with the new thought that popped into my head. I don’t know if it is prophetic or not. I suppose if I ponder more on the topic I could make that determination, feeling out the Spirit, but I don’t want to take the time to do that now. Maybe later I will. Nevertheless, my initial reaction to it was sufficient to cause me to record it here on this blog. The view I got was totally foreign to what I had been thinking and struck me as possibly prophetic, due to my previous experience with this spirit, which always has to do with a change in conditions before fulfillment.
My reaction was, essentially, the same as what Joseph wrote here:
It wasn’t a normal shiver, but a “holy $#!t !” kind of shiver, because a new view opened up to me, which I had never considered and which would require a change in conditions. But with prophecy nothing is ever known, for prophecy doesn’t work of knowledge of the future, but of faith concerning the future. In other words, the prophet has faith that his spoken or written prophecy will come to pass as it was given, not that he has been given knowledge of these things. It’s simply an assurance given by the power of the Holy Ghost. For my own part, because I didn’t feel out the Spirit when I had the thought, I am not assured that this thought will happen and can’t categorically state that it’s a prophecy, but just my reaction to it is indicative to me that there may be something to it.
For this reason, I wanted to record it here. Perhaps later on I will come back and review it and either toss it out as having eaten too much meat the night before or that the Spirit of the Lord was upon me.
I just had another thought concerning the conference center prophecy and the subsequent descent of the church into wickedness, which was this: the Lord is going to allow the general authorities to be removed from the church because the people will desire it. I suppose I’ll need to unfold this a little to show what I mean.
So, according to this principle, at some point in the future, the church will no longer be sustaining their leaders, as they do now, but will desire that they be removed. The seeds of dissent have already been sown in the church and there are those who sustain the Brethren and those who do not, either openly or in secret. Because the leaders won’t budge, and will continue not to budge on certain issues that the secret (and open) dissenters want changed, the desire for their removal will take root among those who have been infected by the dissent, which, I suppose, will be at some point a majority of members, becoming a tipping point and causing the Lord to respond.
The prayers of the people will be answered by the Lord, but not in the way they thought, and the leadership will be removed and replaced with a leadership that will give the people the changes that they desire.
So, according to this thought (and I will call it just a thought, for now), public opinion among the latter-day saints will begin to shift from sustaining and supporting the Brethren to opposing them, and when it is clearly shown that the Brethren will not budge, it will shift even further to wanting to have them removed and others ordained in their stead, who will cater to the will of the church. And that will be the time when the end of the conference center will be near.
All of this is according to the doctrine of deliverance, which I wrote about in The significance of captain Moroni post, and also according to the doctrine against dissent, which I have not written about. But now that I’ve mentioned it, I guess I’ll have to write about it, huh?
please do
The Restoration of the Nephites
I was reading the scriptures to my sons recently and as I read, the following words, which were spoken by the Lord to Nephi–
made me think that at some point in the future:
In other words, the thought was that there would be a restoration or repeat of 4 Nephi 1:20,35-38 in the land.
After having thought this, I searched the scriptures with this in mind, to see if it had any merit, for I had never heard it said that the Nephites would be restored, for all the talk in the church about the remnant was that the Lamanites would accept the gospel. No one had ever said that they would start calling themselves Nephites. Nevertheless, in my search I discovered that I had overlooked something and also had been misdirected by the chapter headings, for I had missed that 2 Nephi 25 to 2 Nephi 30 was a prophecy that Nephi gave to the people of Nephi (the Nephites):
So, when Nephi says:
he is talking of Nephites and Jacobites and Josephites and Zoramites, not Lamanites. (See also D&C 3:16-17,19.) Yet the chapter heading misdirects by saying:
Now this also ties into another thought that was impressed upon me recently, through the words of Enos, which are:
And that thought was that God intended to bring about a complete restoration of Nephite society, restoring both their records and their traditions, both of which were given by the power of the Holy Ghost. But now was added the thought that there wouldn’t be just Nephite records and traditions among us, but actual Nephites (and Jacobites, Josephites and Zoramites), who would actually call themselves by these designations, as well as those not of that seed, who adopt themselves into these lineages to obtain the blessing promised to Nephi and his seed and people, just as the people of Zarahemla did.
I had never heard such things as these thoughts before, so I thought I ought to record them on this blog somewhere.
One more thought along this same line: when reading the scriptures to my sons this past weekend, I noticed that the Nephite monetary reckoning and pricing was established by Mosiah (see Alma 11:4) and I wondered if that reckoning was given by revelation, which, if it was, would mean that that, too, would be restored.
Yet another thought:
“The Restoration of the Nephites”
A logical possible deduction as one travels down the rabbit hole of this topic far enough is that the restoration involves a literal one, bringing people back from the past, and that the seed of those that return, will be assimilated into their people, and be called the people of Nephi
“And the Father hath commanded me that I should give unto you this land, for your inheritance.
15 And I say unto you, that if the Gentiles do not repent after the blessing which they shall receive, after they have scattered my people—
16 Then shall ye, who are a remnant of the house of Jacob, go forth among them; and ye shall be in the midst of them who shall be many; and ye shall be among them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, and as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he goeth through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.
17 Thy hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off.
18 And I will gather my people together as a man gathereth his sheaves into the floor.”
“21 And it shall come to pass that I will establish my people, O house of Israel.
22 And behold, this people will I establish in this land, unto the fulfilling of the covenant which I made with your father Jacob; and it shall be a New Jerusalem. And the powers of heaven shall be in the midst of this people; yea, even I will be in the midst of you.”
3rd Nephi 20
As I search the scriptures, I’m finding more things that I missed concerning a restoration of Nephites (not Lamanites) in the latter-days. For example:
Before one can have Nephites receive the Jewish and Lost Tribe records in the latter-days, one needs to have Nephites around…
http://mormonthink.com/
I’m not big on this site but there is some pretty huge breaking news. 2 dudes in England are suing Thomas monson, not the church, for fraud. Should be an interesting trial, but considering the 5 billion dollars in tithing made just in 2013 there should be plenty of money to buy enough lawyers to make this disappear.
yeah I’m late to the party but I do have a thing or two to say about gifts of the spirit and I admit I am partly just jotting down thoughts and my own observations. I can’t go into alarming detail about quite everything The Lord doesn’t want me too for whatever reason.
but I am a seer. as a young child I simply knew it as the gift of visions. I always knew it came with other perks. what I have learned is the gift of visions takes considerable time to master. it isn’t an instant knowledge. it is also something I came born with so I apparently earned it in the previous life.
that being said the scriptures apparently tell us the gift of seership is the greatest a man can possess on the earth. I’ve over the years pondered on this. I think one reason is being seer seems to encompass everything else.
I have the gift to be healed and the gift to heal. I have seen angels. I have seen the Hand of God and heard His voice. I have stood above the earth and seen it and it is quite a sight to behold. I have I suppose what is called the gift of discerning spirits truthfully I always just figured it as some ability to tell a persons spirit I hadnt really put a name on it until now. truthfully I didnt always know I was a seer and often just thought it was the gift of visions that comes with perks. I have performed miracles(confounded a persons speech and other things I’m sure) and I have cast out devils. I spoken to people via the spirit to spirit communication and we did understand each other.
over the years The Lord made it quite clear I am a seer. I can prophecy. I can revelate and I can know things in the past that no man knoweth. I havent yet translated or spoken in tongues but I imagine if The Lord saw fit I could do that.
I have a strange ability whatever it might be called to see things to their core. to understand the basic core reasoning that drives a person to cut away through all the BS and get to the root and heart of an issue to I suppose cut to a persons heart. I suppose this is the gift of discernment.
however being a seer is not without it’s pitfalls or it’s problems. I have learned all gifts have their oppossing force. in essence where God gives a gift Satan gives the his version of the same gift.
I have some kind of sixth sense.
Satan has given me visions. I have spoken with the devil. I have seen the devil at least 1000 times face to face. just as I know how to invoke the powers of heaven I know how to invoke the secret combonations and powers of hell. I could truthfully heal in the devils name if I went down that path. all the gifts of heaven I previously listed I could do a Satanic version of.
truthfully I don’t know all my gifts. I know it has taken me years and years even my entire life to come to terms with them and learn them. I am still learning.
I have as a result developed quite a close relationship with God even if it might appear to be strange and unusual. I have learned the workings of God and Satan are truthfully not spoken of correctly and most people have little clue as to how they operate. there was even a time as a teen where I screamed at the heavens in anger accussing God of not answering my prayers…..I told Him TAKE AWAY MY GIFTS YOU DON’T ANSWER MY PRAYERS or something like that…..and God said OK….2 years or so later….I had been so accumstomed to my gifts over the years that during these two years I felt handicapped. I had lost something. I could no longer sense things. I seemed incapable of judging people good or bad and so made sometimes costly judgments. I seemed hamstrung somehow like I was incomplete and not whole….then sometime around 2 years into this I screamed back up at the heavens and said essentially YOU NEVER LISTENED TO MY PRAYERS OR ANSWERED ME AND THAT IS WHEN YOU ANSWERED ME??? TO TAKE AWAY MY ABILITIES OR GIFTS???? WELL THEN I WANT THEM BACK!!!!! and God said OK. I remember this it was like God was waiting 2 years for this conversation to finish…it was like a phone call where I said hold on be right back so He waited for me to return. I did get my gifts back….but I had to start back at ground 0. I cant help but wonder would I spiritually be at a better place had I not insisted on hitting the reset button????
so for 2 years I did experience life as a non-seer. I lacked any spiritual gifts. I relied solely on the arm of flesh. I was lost. many things that were second nature to me I explicably couldn’t do anymore. it was weird being without these gifts it really felt like I had lost something that was a part of my nature. I learned it was even little thing that my gift affected….whether it was somehow knowing the best way to get somewhere….being able to just randomly stumble into something great and useful….whether it was helping someone or giving good advice….whether it was knowledge and understanding….there was not a thing I couldn’t do better without my gifts and without them I did everything noticably worse. I learned that I had become dependent on them without even knowing it.
through all this I have rebelled…I have sinned greatly and I continue to do so yet I find God seems to think I am on the right path. He seems to not care that I am a sinner and He knows I am a sinner and in some way wants me to suffer these sins so that He can teach me things. He wants me to use my gifts despite my sins whatever they maybe.
I am a porn addict. I have 0 clue when it comes to the world of dating and my entire interact with the opposite sex part of my brain seems broken but God doesn’t care. He wants me to overcome that. Despite just downloading a whole load of porn God wants me to learn to use the priesthood. He has allowed me to work miracles despite the fact if I was honest I’d be excommunicated from the church.
despite this God has His own timetable and His own way.
I want to say that yes I am one of the rare seers….I cuss, I swear, I watch rated R movies, I masturbate to porn, I have done drugs, I am a master thief and liar, I have committed crimes and gotten away with them. I am a high school drop out and struggle in college. I have a hearing problem that affects my speech. I am addicted to video games and have wasted far too many days doing absolutely nothing. I spend too much money. I despise my family and parents with a passion despite this God has chosen the one who hates them the most to answer my parents life long prayer of uniting their children with them in the celestial kingdom. when I watched a circumcision video the amount of ways I wanted to and still do want to brutally maim my parents is uncountable.
I have long hair. I often don’t shave and as a result don’t look neat. I am sickly. I am harsh and unforgiving. I havent been to church except 3 times in the past 2 years. I am chronically depressed. I have been suicidal to the point where one time The Lord had to send an angel to talk me out of suicide. I subscribe to many weird theories about the scriptures not the least of which is the Lilith theory and the fact that masturbation is not mentioned in the scriptures anywhere. I absolutely love anime my favorite show being Evangelion which is even better when you blast Avril Lavignes music to it in the background. truth be told I am a giant walking mess in a great deal of areas in my life and as anyone reading this can tell you my grammar ain’t too good either. I am also quite insane and prone to mental breakdowns. I enjoy shows are a good mindF***
the reality is despite all this I am a seer and have had to pay the price of that gift which is Satan will take a very close and personal involvement in the life of a seer.
I want to say that if you run across people with these gifts bear in mind they are people….also the higher the gift like seership the more troubles this person will have.
my latest test? over the past many years and now the past many months….God has been teaching me what He has taught so many before me. I before I moved to Utah for school was on a spirtual high…I had finally gotten my life together and organized. God let me pride get the best of me and over the next 3 years I fell down a path of destruction….I became more depressed than I had ever been in my life….I suffered several mental breakdowns. my porn addiciton hit me like a 2 ton of bricks after I had overcome it. school was stressing me to death and I was at the same time finding out the LDs church was not what I had thought it was all these years….and I was learning yes I do suck badly when it comes to dating and women.
God let me fall to teach me the lesson so many had to learn before me….that is to paraphrase that even when we get a spiritual high and all goes right to still remember to remain humble and trust The Lord and follow Him first even when all is going well. He also wished to teach me the errors of relying on my own wisdom and not His. after He told me this He instructed me to take a break from school….drop out of the last 3 months of my church service mission and to essentially not care what others thought, what the church thought, what my mission leader might think….to simply care what I The Lord think. I didn’t listen. well I half way listened.
about this time I it was a few weeks before I was scheduled to fly home to see the family for 10 days….again The Lord seemed to want me to tell my parents I needed to come stay with them for a little while and take a break….however using my own reasoning and wisdom I figured how can I do this? they’ll make me go back to school.
well God not willing to joke around this time decided fine you won’t do this the easy way well I’ll get you to stay. and stay I did….in the hospital. it is hard to make a flight when you are in the hospital. I got deathly sick. I learned you can in fact throw up and poop out diarehea at the same time and you can do this for 6 hours straight. I also learned you can do this for two more 6 hour marathons. needless to say I was hospitalized.
I also took a lot longer to recover than I should have and I finally this time decided to listen….I took heed to His counsel which was SLEEP….get 8 hours of sleep….I have terrible sleeping habits and I cant sleep at night and The Lord essentially said I don’t care when you sleep just get your 8 hours of sleep. sleep through church if you have too. get your 8 hours of sleep was the punch line. also exercise…pray….read your scriptures….eat healthier…manage your time better. I think journalling may have been mentioned. in essence ground myself a bit.
truthfully I’ve only half succeeded. I have done a bit better in the eating healthier…exercising and getting sleep. I don’t pray as much as I should(you’d think a seer would be a praying fiend and master but the reality is I can sometimes pray for 30 seconds a day for a month straight….yeah I’m bad) and I don’t read the scriptures as much as I should. I have made improvements but then things come up like catching a severe illness this past month….also I tend to get distracted reading such fine blogs like the LDSanarchy one.
also during this time as stated God has been attempting to get me to follow Him no matter what….this has been through a series of tests….the first was concerning exercising….everyday it has seemingly been something trying to get in my way of exercising, whether it be friends getting mad that they can’t see me because of my sleeping habits and when I exercise and they have to work in the morning, family scheduling things during my exercising time, or my general lazy laid back attitude. it has been a test. I think I passed that part of the test.
then The Lord I suppose tried to see if I would foresake a trip to Germany….but I didn’t as a result I spent a month after the trip struggling to get back on schedule.
for a X-mas present I signed a revelation I had to Denver Snuffer’s book Second Comforter….I found out a few days later that apparently a few months previously he had been excommunicated….I could feel the test was “Well you were brazen enough to sign MY Name to his book….well do you stand by it???” seemingly testing if I would follow The Lord even in some weird hypothetical excommunication of myself.
then we had the big one….truthfully I’m scared to know if there is a bigger trial of faith. I stumbled onto circumcision and watched a video of it….I screamed. I cried. I was angry. I still am angry. It caused me to even with a knowledge of certainity that their is in fact a God and He is Christ….to doubt….it caused me to question His existence as I seemed to gain a memory of that happening to me….I cried in horror. I then wrestled with the fact The Lord wants me to forgive my parents….forgive them for such treason….all this I feel is asking the ultimate question….”Will you still follow Me(Christ)???”….I haven’t entirely come to that answer yet because as stated I am a bit scared to see what bigger trial is ahead. I am scared to see what other earth shattering thought He will give me. also I sort of ya know HATE MY PARENTS FOR THIS AND WANT THEM TO BURN IN HELL.
I have learned….to Follow Christ is to know pain. to know hell. as Snuffer puts it second comforter….the pathway to heaven goes through hell.
I recently pondering over D and C 121 and 122….and the story of Job….it does comfort me concerning the circumcision question but it still doesn’t take away the pain….the horror….the agony. it is not just circumcision I have come to learn with alarming detail exactly how vile that operation is….how it Solemnly Mocks God….how it makes holy things(children) to become unholy. How it is traumatic, why it is why I have always hated my parents especially my mother, why my sex life is ruined and a fraction of what it could be, and countless other things. I have learned seen how this truly wrecked havoc on me. furthermore God has shown me in a vision a few years ago….How His hand was there at my birth to preserve my life as I was born still born….How He explained my hearing problem is fulfillment of the scriptures that say that He will make your weakness your strength and I can hear Him better than most yet I have a hearing problem so hasn’t this scripture thus been fulfilled? I am then left knowing His hand was there yet He wanted and allowed me to suffer this agonizing horror only for it fully hit me like a ton of bricks 30 years later.
It has left in a state of shock really….all the while left to answer the question….”Will you still Follow Me(Christ)???”
the obvious answer is yes….but it has forced me to reconcile a lot….when I prayed about it The Lord wanted me to help save my unborn nephew from this Solemn Mockery….it hurts that there is a big effort to save that child and yet I am left with 30 years of brokenness from this….it simply hurts and it makes saying yes a tearful painful agonizing cry of yes. thats all I can give.
so I will say the gifts of the spirit are amazing….the gift of seership is a costly one albeit amazing. if you seek after it and seek to Follow Christ….know it is worth it but it is painful and you might not know like I did not know what He could ask me to do that will cause me to break down in tears but we all have something….my fear is there is still more to come if I say yes. I also get the sense The Lord is letting me think this over before giving another test. so He is not alltogether heartless and demanding a instant answer…He is patient and His idea of free will truly is mind blowing at times.
I will say this is why I was drawn to this article….I truly do long for the days where the gifts of the spirit were manifest everywhere….if for no other reason than to be made whole…..I also have a strong desire now to master the priesthood and my gifts but I still haven’t entirely forced a yes out of me yet.
I hope this was useful to someone somewhere.
pondering on this topic even more and for other reasons The Lord wanted me to read D and C 121 and 122. one thing I noticed when reading this was
Doctrine and Covenants 121:26
26 God shall give unto you knowledge by his Holy Spirit, yea, by the unspeakable gift of the Holy Ghost, that has not been revealed since the world was until now;
we see God is giving Joseph the UNSPEAKABLE gift of The Holy Ghost….this is clearly different from
Doctrine and Covenants 138:33
33 These were taught faith in God, repentance from sin, vicarious baptism for the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands,
Doctrine and Covenants 33:15
15 And whoso having faith you shall confirm in my church, by the laying on of the hands, and I will bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost upon them.
the gift of The Holy Ghost which we receive at shortly after baptism.
I then did a scripture search for Holy Ghost. curiously there is an instance where it is used in a plural tense.
Hebrews 2:4
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
GIFTS. perhaps this is the result of the bible and it’s various mistranlations over the years or perhaps it is a subtle reference to D and C 121 where The Holy Ghost has more than just the gift of The Holy Ghost but also has the unspeakable gift of The Holy Ghost.
D and C 121 is of course Joseph’s cry to God about the seemingly injustice of his situation and God’s reply to him and part of that reply is the unspeakable gift of The Holy Ghost. this of course begs the question what exactly is the unspeakable gift? while all gifts are appendenges to The Holy Ghost because it is by the Spirit of God that we receive all things….but there are apparently certain things that exclusive somehow to just The Holy Ghost so much so they are gifts of The Holy Ghost.
I pointed out a second one that appears to be hidden in plain sight….I wonder perhaps what other things are gifts of The Holy Ghost? to clarify one last time to gift of visions while it entails the power of The Holy Ghost is not considered a gift of The Holy Ghost….I mean things like the unspeakable gift of The Holy Ghost or the gift of The Holy Ghost…..it has to have “of The Holy Ghost” attached to the end of it.
if I had to theorize…..I would say the unspeakable gift is where sometimes you simply know something without having it told to you. perhaps a way of thinking of it would be you so know the mind of God that He doesn’t have to speak things to you as much anymore because you are generally speaking so in tune with Him. an example would be Jesus while on earth He was so in tune with Heavenly Father that Heavenly Father didn’t actually have to speak with Him constantly because Their minds were so in sync. I’d imagine some folks like Moses or Joseph Smith became so in tune with the mind of God that God didn’t have to speak to them about every little thing so thus they got the unspeakable gift aka they were in sync with the mind of God.
that’s my guess on it at this point. I suppose this is also why sometimes I just know something and can’t really say why I just know something.