Sustaining Judas

To be frank, I’ve always known that my position with how I exist as a member of the church is idiosyncratic.  My opinion about the present order of things is far too critical for most of the mainstream members I attend church with [e.g., I admit there are problems with how Mormonism is governed by a bunch of old men in Salt Lake and I admit there are alternate ways for people to legitimately be “LDS”] — but I’m far too generous for any among the critical crowd I might talk to [e.g., I believe that the LDS church is still literally the true church of Jesus Christ, and I don’t support an “All is lost, corrupt-apostasy, JUMP ship” view of things].

My mind was recently drawn to an interview with Hugh Nibley about this very topic:

Hugh Nibley was once asked, “Are you concerned with the leadership of the Church?”  His answer:

Nope, not a bit. I certainly am not. The leadership of the church is Jesus Christ, and he knows what he is doing. Don’t worry.

The interviewer pressed-on, “I am tempted to ask you if you would sustain Judas?”

Of course I would sustain Judas. He was on of the apostles.

“But he was a devil,” as any person would have replied.

Remember what the Lord said. “I have chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil” (John 6:70).

But he chose him.  The Lord has his purposes in these things.  If we sustained only perfect people, we wouldn’t sustain anybody.  The Lord has his purposes in these things.

I’ve worked with church leaders who really believed and taught some silly [at best] crap.  Some of “the brethren” have said some out-right foolish and incorrect things as a part of their callings as prophets, seers, and revelators.  Now, I don’t think we’re at the point where any of them are “Judas” (we are not in the final stage of the church were the leaders are doing the works of Satan), but — let’s say they were — should I sustain them?  Isn’t it the church of Jesus Christ?  Even if Christ calls someone who is out-right wicked, who am I to oppose it?

The prophecies given to Joseph Smith concerning the Lord’s work in the last days cannot be fulfilled unless the church of Jesus Christ gets out of order.  Any people who believe that pointing out problems with church leadership or general practice somehow indicates that it’s worth abandoning are deceived and do not understand the revelations that founded the restoration of the church of Jesus Christ.

It’s simply too hard for either side [mainstream or anti-] to understand that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints remains the church of Jesus Christ, despite being out of order and condemned.  They either reject the claim that it’s out of order [“all is well in Zion”, you see] or they reject it as the true church of Christ altogether.

It may very well be that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is on the way to playing the role of the Judas in this latter-day restoration of all things — wherein it is the apostle that the Lord has chosen to work His miraculous work before the very eyes of humanity.

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  1. it may be a nice teaching point to compare judas and the present leaders imperfect as they are. but i am reminded of lds a’s topics of faith. we have learned though that judas was chosen at the time because of his faithfulness or the amount of his faith in spite of his mortal imperfection and not because of his role to be the certain traitor. as church manuals have explained or i understand that we are not as pre determined to be consigned to such a state more than i desire to choose to.

  2. I agree with you skyglynn. I think the main point is that it was in the design and will of God that Jesus Christ be betrayed by one of the apostles (so He would be put to death and resurrect) — and so Judas fulfilled that purpose.

    And likewise it is in the design and will of God that the church of Jesus Christ become out of order and condemned (so He can set it back in order and fully restore all things) — and so the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will fulfill that purpose.

  3. The LDS church is not the house of God that needs to be put in order. Did Jesus bring the Jewish church into order? No. That kingdom was overthrown. The kingdom of the latter day Jews will have no authority once the true church of Christ is restored.

    The house of God is his followers in a scattered condition, all in the captivity of their false religions (LDS church included). They will be brought in order. Gathered. Consecrated. Sanctified.

    That said, I enjoyed this post. God truly has called latter day Judas’ to test his people. But remember in the parable of the wheat and tares, it’s the wheat that is gathered out…. The LDS church has been gathering both. The one mighty and strong will gather the wheat from out of it.

    The LDS church will not stand. It cannot be fixed.


  4. Speaking as a man, until a week or two ago, I did not quite comprehend why the Elders said that the LORD is at the helm, until I knew it by my own knocking, searching and praying. I don’t doubt the the First Presidency, or the Twelve Apostles. I only doubt man. Even if they lead me to the brink of hell, I will yet trust in God and the command center of his leadership. Joseph Smith with Zion’s camp lead many a man to their certain deaths, and there cannot be happier men than those who perished infected with Cholera by following his counsel. He even almost goes with them. In the Hawns’s Mill Massacre. The prophet counsel everybody in peril to go to Far West or to the center of gathering. The ones who did not listen, gave heed to the Move who offered them a false sense of security. Not all, but their blood was poured as dust and their bodies were dumped as dung in a hole. I hope they have as great a mansion as those who perished in Zion’s cam. It is a no brainier. It is more probable that I am wrong than 15 seer stones. It is possible that I may be right once, but it is probable that they are right all the time. I like possibilities but Go with the probabilities. I am the kind that at first will say not to the LORD, but who will come to reason and go and work in the vineyard with his Father unlike those who say yes, but never show up.

  5. This is no democracy, but there is an eternal principle that is operant even in complete ignorance in any given society. And it is that it is not common for the majority of the voice of the people to chose that which is not right, but it is common for the minority of the voice of the people to choose that which is not right. It is only when the minority persuades the majority that we face the judgments of God as we have hitherto seen over the land. If we are still standing and enjoying our goodies, then it must be a good sign. This is what was taught to the Nephrite and Mulekite nations when the government of the judges begun. If the Majority of the LDS membership support the Church and it’s leadership as it stands, who am I to contradict them. The exceptions to the rule are very rare like Abinadi, Alma Son, Paul, and Even Samuel the Lamnite. But any one can fall from grace and become an apostate, fall in to perdition and kick against the pricks, persuade the majority to chose unrighteousness and by the death and misery and destruction that will follow, all will know that the law has been broken, that the ordinance has been changed and the everlasting covenant been voided. It matters not how good their intentions, the minority is commonly wrong. Lift your eyes and see how the streets are being taken by minorities. See how minorities are the ones who break away from the church to form their darkened utopias. Is that law and order? The only way the church can be set in order is by obedience to the law and the prophets or by exceeding the righteousness of the pharisees and Sadducees and the Publicans in our midst whoever they are.

  6. Gazelem TL,

    The followers of Jesus Christ in the meridian of time were a minority. Many around them I’m sure would have said they were in a “darkened utopia”—

    Today I think you have correctly classified the outsiders of the Utah-LDS-church as darkened, but that is no matter. Just because the mainline LDS members are smiling and have shiny white teeth, does not mean they have found salvation.

    When true prophets are on the earth, I will obey their words as they come from the mouth of God. Order will come when the fulness of the priesthood returns to the earth. Until then, we stand alone.


  7. I don’t know you, but i think you have been my journals 😉

  8. it is a fact that before the end times the church will face an imminent apostasy and those things come after the rise of the false prophet and the rise of the anti-christ, so no i don’t believe any sort of apostasy has happened, one thing lacking in the scriptures or the bible is the understanding of the power and influence of the restored priesthood that only our church has, anyway this was a great read, also the gospels and their accounts vary and in modern day revelation and in scriptures of old times we read and understand that HEAVENLY FATHER and the LORD require certain things and we are not to question them but to take them with faith and patience.

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