The Testimonies of Denver Snuffer and Louis Steiner Naegle


The A Little Peace in Paradise blog published the correspondence between Louis Steiner Naegle and his stake president regarding his recent (May 13, 2016) excommunication for apostasy, and Naegle included both Denver Snuffer’s testimony, as well as his own, in his letters.  I thank Naegle that he has allowed them to be openly and freely viewed.  The whole story can be found here: Excommunication of Louis Steiner Naegle.

I am publishing these two testimonies on this blog because I feel they are instructive.  As I had never read them before, I couldn’t make any assessment one way or another, but now that I have read them, I can.

My purpose in posting these is not to “spread the word,” but to give an open forum to people to discuss their merits.  They were previously published in books—which people bought, took home, and read alone, coming to their own conclusions about them alone, without discussing them with other saints—and now they can be viewed and read here, in this post, and openly discussed by those who believe that they are true, and also by those who believe that they are false.

My intention is not to create an atmosphere of contention, in which people divide into two sides and a shouting match ensues, but of discussion, in which saints who think they know the scriptures will use them to show why these testimonies are true, or why they are false.  It may be that this exercise will bring greater clarity to those who are still undecided about the testimonies of the men in question, and perhaps also persuade those whose opinions are currently fixed to change their minds, one way or another.

I feel this might be an important exercise (if people actually participate in it) because the prophecies speak of false preachers, teachers, prophets and Christs that will appear in the latter days, so unless the saints can figure this stuff out, they will be as susceptible to deception as the rest of the world.  The saints will judge all things, the scriptures say, so a group of latter-day saints, with these testimonies laid before them, and with access to the scriptures, ought to be able to arrive at the correct conclusion concerning them.  (And I’m hoping that people will keep the discussion scriptural, showing by the scriptures their reasons for belief or disbelief, and not resort to merely saying, “I’ve got a feeling,” or “the Holy Ghost told me such-and-such about this.”)

I myself will not engage in any discussion on this post.  I think that what I have written about these topics in previous posts is sufficient for anyone to already know my opinion on these matters.  So, I will not try to sway anyone one way or another.  The post, then, is for others to do the talking and convincing, not me.

So, without further adieu, I ask the following questions of this blog’s readership:

What, if anything, is wrong with these accounts;

and what, if anything, is right?

Do you notice anything “off” about them;

or are they in conformity with the revealed word of God?

Okay, so to start, here’s Denver Snuffer’s testimony, as published in Chapter 12 of his book, Come, Let Us Adore Him:

Gethsemene

I knew a man in Christ about four years ago [ca. 2008; see 2 Cor. 12:2-3; D&C 137:1 brackets mine], who, being overshadowed by the Spirit, had the Lord appear to him. And the Lord spoke to him face to face, in plain humility, as one man speaks to another, calling him by name. As they spoke the Lord put forth His hand and touched the eyes of the man and said, “Look!”

The man had opened before him a view of the Lord kneeling in prayer. It was in a dark place. The air was heavy and overcast with sorrow. The man beheld the Lord praying in Gethsemene on the night of His betrayal and before His crucifixion.

All the Lord had previously done in His mortal ministry by healing the sick, rasing the dead, giving sight to the blind, restoring hearing to the deaf, curing the leper and ministering relief to others as He taught was but a prelude to what the Lord was now to do on this dark, oppressive night.

As the Lord knelt in prayer, His vicarious suffering began. He was overcome by pain and anguish. He felt within Him, not just the pains of sin, but also the illnesses men suffer as a result of the Fall, and their foolish and evil choices. The suffering was long and the challenge difficult.

The Lord suffered the afflictions. He was healed from the sickness. He overcame the pains, and patiently bore the infirmities until, finally, He returned to peace of mind, and strength of body. It took an act of will and hope for Him to overcome the affliction which had been poured upon Him. He overcame the separation caused by these afflictions and reconciled with His Father. He was at peace with all mankind.

He thought His sufferings were over, but to His astonishment another wave overcame Him. This one was much greater than the first. The Lord, who had been kneeling, fell forward onto His hands at the impact of the pain that was part of a greater, second wave.

This second wave was so much greater than the first that it seemed to entirely overcome the Lord. The Lord was now stricken with physical injuries, as well as spiritual affliction. As He suffered anew, His flesh was torn which He healed using the power of the charity within Him. The Lord had such life within Him, such power and virtue within Him, that although He suffered in His flesh, these injuries healed and His flesh restored. His suffering was both body and spirit, and there was anguish of thought, feeling and soul.

The Lord overcame this second wave of suffering, and again found peace of mind and strength of body; and His heart filled with love despite what He had suffered. Indeed, it was charity or love that allowed Him to overcome. He was at peace with His Father, and with all mankind, but it required another, still greater act of will and charity than the first for Him to do so.

Again, the Lord thought His suffering was over. He stayed on His hands and knees for a moment to collect Himself when another wave of torment burst upon Him. This wave struck Him with such force He fell forward upon His face.

He was afflicted by this greater wave. He was then healed only to then be afflicted again as the waves of torment overflowed. Wave after wave poured out upon Him, with only moments between them. The Lord’s suffering progressed from a lesser to a greater portion of affliction; for as one would be overcome by Him, the next, greater affliction would then be poured out. Each wave of suffering was only preparation for the next, greater wave.

The pains of mortality, disease, injury and infirmity, together with the sufferings of sin, transgressions, guilt of mind, and unease of soul, the horrors of recognition of the evils men had inflicted upon others were all poured out upon Him; with confusion and perplexity multiplied upon Him.

He longed for it to be over, and thought it would end long before it finally ended. With each wave He thought it would be the last but then another came upon Him, and then yet another.

The one beholding this scene was pained by what he saw, and begged for the vision of the Lord’s suffering to end. He could not bear to see his Lord suffering in this manner. The petition was denied and the vision did not end, for the Lord required him to witness it.

The man saw that the Lord pleaded again with the Father that “this cup may pass” from Him. But the Lord was determined to suffer the Father’s will, and not His own. Therefore, a final wave came upon Him with such violence as to cut Him at every pore. It seemed for a moment that He was torn apart, and that blood came out of every pore. The Lord writhed in pain upon the ground as this great final torment was poured upon Him.

All virtue was taken from Him. All the great life force in Him was stricken and afflicted. All the light turned to darkness. He was humbled, drained and left with nothing. It is not possible for a man to bear such pains and live, but with nothing more than will, hope in His Father, and charity toward all men, He emerged from the final wave of torment, knowing He had suffered all this for His Father and His brethren. By His hope and great charity, trusting in the Father, the Lord returned from this dark abyss and found grace again, His heart being filled with love toward the Father and all men.

These great burdens were born by the Lord not only on behalf of mankind, but also as a necessary prelude to His death upon a Roman cross. Had He not been so physically weakened by these sufferings, and drained of power from within, the scourging and crucifixion He suffered at the hands of men could not have taken His life.

It was many hours after this vision closed before the one who witnessed this suffering could compose himself again. He wept because of the vision shown him, and he wondered at the Lord’s great suffering for mankind.

The witness reflected for many days upon this scene of the Lord’s great suffering. He read many times the account of the Lord’s agony given to Joseph Smith, which reads: “Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not. For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.” He pondered and asked: Why were there waves of torment? Why did they increase in difficulty? How were they organized as they seemed to fit a pattern?

After long inquiring into the things which he had seen, the Lord, who is patient and merciful and willing to instruct those who call upon Him, again appeared to the man again. He made known unto him that the waves of torment suffered by the Lord came in pairs which mirrored each other. The first of each wave poured upon the Lord those feelings, regrets, recriminations and pains felt by those who injured their fellow man. Then followed a second wave, which mirrored the first, but imposed the pains suffered by the victims of the acts committed by those in the first wave. Instead of the pains of those who inflict hurt or harm, it was now the anger, bitterness and resentments felt by those who suffered these wrongs.

From each wave of suffering, whether as the one afflicting or as the victim of those wrongs, the Lord would overcome the evil feelings associated with these wrongs, and find His heart again filled with peace. This was why, in the vision of the suffering of the Lord it was in the second waves that there appeared oftentimes to be injuries to His body.

The greater difficulty in these paired waves of torment was always overcoming the suffering of the victim. With these waves, the Lord learned to overcome the victims’ resentments, to forgive, and to heal both body and spirit. This was more difficult than overcoming the struggles arising from the one who committed the evil. This is because the one doing evil knows he has done wrong, and feels a natural regret when he sees himself aright. The victim, however, always feels it is their right to hold resentment, to judge their persecutor, and to withhold peace and love for their fellow men. The Lord was required to overcome both so that He could succor both.

In the pairing of the waves, the first torment was of the mind and spirit, and the second was torment of mind, spirit and body.

The Lord experienced all the horror and regret wicked men feel for their crimes when they finally see the truth. He experienced the suffering of their victims whose righteous anger and natural resentment and disappointment must also be shed, and forgiveness given, in order for them to find peace. He overcame them all. He descended below them all. He comprehends it all. And He knows how to bring peace to them all. He knows how to love others whether they are the one who has given offense or the one who is a victim of the offense.

In the final wave, the most brutal, most evil, most heinous sins men inflict upon one another were felt by Him as a victim of the worst men can do. He knew how it felt to wrongly suffer death. He knew what it was like to be a mother holding a child in her arms as they are both killed by those who delight in their suffering. He knew how it was for ambitious men to rid themselves of a rival by conspiracy and murder. He knew what it was to have virtue robbed from the innocent. He knew betrayal, treachery, and abuse in all its worst degrading horror. There was no cruelty, no offense, no evil that mankind has suffered or will suffer that was not put upon Him.

He knew what it is like for men to satisfy their ambition by clothing their hypocrisy in religious garb. He also felt what it was like to be the victim of religious oppression by those who pretend to practice virtue while oppressing others. He knew the hearts of those who would kill Him. Before confronting their condemnation of Him in the flesh, He suffered their torment of mind when they recognized He was the Lord, and then found peace for what they would do by rejecting Him. In this extremity there was madness itself as He mirrored the evil which would destroy Him, and learned how to come to peace with the Father after killing the Son of God, and to love all those involved without restraint and without pretense even before they did these terrible deeds. His suffering, therefore, encompassed all that has happened, all that did happen, and all that would happen in the future.

As a result of what the Lord suffered, there is no condition – physical, spiritual or mental – that He does not fully understand. He knows how to teach, comfort, succor and direct any who come to Him seeking forgiveness and peace. This is why the prophet wrote: “by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.” (Isa. 53: 11.) And again: “Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.”  He obtained this knowledge by the things he suffered. He suffered that we might avoid sin by being obedient to His commandments. None of us need harm another, if we will follow Him. He knows fully the consequences of sin. He teaches His followers how to avoid sin.

The prophet Alma taught and understood our Lord’s sufferings as he wrote:

And he shall go forth, suffering pains and afflictions and temptations of every kind; and this that the word might be fulfilled which saith he will take upon him the pains and the sicknesses of his people. And he will take upon him death, that he may loose the bands of death which bind his people; and he will take upon him their infirmities, that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities.” (Alma 7: 11–12.)

He can bring peace to any soul. He can help those who will come to Him love their fellow man. He alone is the Perfect Teacher because He alone has the knowledge each of us lack to return to being whole and at peace with the God and Father of us all after our transgression of His will. He is wise to what is required for each man’s salvation.

As the Lord made these terrible things known to the man he cried out: “Hosanna to the Lamb of God! He has trodden the winepress alone! Glory, honor and mercy be upon the Chosen One forever and ever! I will submit unto anything you see fit to require of me! I will bend my knee in obedience to you! Let thy will, not mine be done! For worthy is the Lamb!” Then, thinking upon how trifling his difficulties and disappointments had been in comparison with the suffering he saw imposed upon his Lord, the man added: “Surely goodness and mercy have been mine all the days of my life!”

And the Lord responded: “And you shall dwell in the house of the Lord forever.”

Then the man wept.

I write these things with permission, and not on my own. For those who receive a knowledge of these things are not always permitted to make them known, nor should they do so. But the Lord requires that some must bear testimony so that others may read or hear, and be edified by them, that faith may increase among mankind. If none of those who receive these things were ever permitted to make them known, then mankind could not come to their Lord and be healed. It is not important to know why the Lord chooses to make these things known to some and then instructs them to testify of them to another. It is only necessary to understand that the Lord is the One to whom all should look in their trials and afflictions for succor. He is mighty and able to save. You do not and will not suffer from any affliction, any dilemma, disappointment or pain which He does not already understand. He has overcome it all. He is worthy to be trusted with your burdens. Come to Him and be healed! Come to Him and be understood! When all others move away, He will come to you! There is nothing wretched that you must confront that He did not first confront and overcome! Take your burdens to Him!

The great Atonement of the Lord allowed Him to know our weaknesses and troubles, and to understand how to bring us back to peace. Christ, as the Atoning One, knows how to bring every troubled soul back to peace. The Lord can tutor us and help us lay down any burden we may be bearing. We are all required to come to peace with our sins and with the offenses we have suffered. To be fully redeemed, we must leave this life having peace through a clear conscience before God and all mankind. This can only be obtained by forgiving others their trespasses. As was recorded about Joseph Smith, before his death: “When Joseph went to Carthage to deliver himself up to the pretended requirements of the law, two or three days previous to his assassination, he said: ‘I am going like a lamb to the slaughter; but I am calm as a summer’s morning; I have a conscience void of offense towards God, and towards all men.’” (D&C 135: 4) He was able to do this because Joseph had forgiven in advance, those who he expected would kill him. It was by these means he was able to have a clear conscience, void of any offense toward all men. Though others would cry revenge for Joseph’s death, Joseph himself obtained the fullness of his reconciliation to God through the act of forgiving those who would kill him.

Christ taught His followers to forgive, that they may in turn merit forgiveness. He said: “For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” (Matt. 6: 14–15.) He taught this because of the atoning power of forgiving others. As a result of the things He suffered, He understood that men must forgive others in order to be able to obtain forgiveness. There are many things men do that they lack the capacity to make amends. The price they must pay for their own transgressions are paid by forgiving all others of their offenses.

Christ was asked by Peter how often men ought to forgive one another. “Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?” (Matt. 18: 21.) In response Christ taught this, saying:

Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took [him] by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses(Matt. 18: 22–35)

He taught this to show how offering forgiveness was in turn obtaining forgiveness. His disciples continued to misunderstand how these two are related. They did not understand that forgiveness is the means by which the Lord enables men to take advantage of His “preparations unto the children of men.” (D&C 19: 19.) To forgive is to atone.

The Lord taught elsewhere: “And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.” (Mark 11: 25–26.) The Father cannot give to men what they ask of Him until they first forgive all offenses among one another.

The voice of the Lord came to Alma, also, and said unto him: “And ye shall also forgive one another your trespasses; for verily I say unto you, he that forgiveth not his neighbor’s trespasses when he says that he repents, the same hath brought himself under condemnation.” (Mosiah 26: 31.) Alma taught this to the people of Mosiah, so they might abide the conditions to obtain forgiveness for their own sins.

When instructing those who assembled in the land of Bountiful, Christ taught: “For, if ye forgive men their trespasses your heavenly Father will also forgive you; But if ye forgive not men their trespasses neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” (3 Ne. 13: 14–15.) He said this so they may understand the means by which men are redeemed. All mankind must redeem themselves by permitting others to escape condemnation for the offenses they have committed against them. In this way men are no longer their brother’s accuser; and the Accuser of Mankind is without means to keep men from redemption. For justice cannot have hold on those who have claim on mercy. Mercy comes to those who give mercy, and men are restored to that which they have become. The merciful are entitled to mercy.

In revelations to Joseph Smith the Lord has commanded: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, my servants, that inasmuch as you have forgiven one another your trespasses, even so I, the Lord, forgive you.” (D&C 82: 1.) And, again: “Wherefore, I say unto you, that ye ought to forgive one another; for he that forgiveth not his brother his trespasses standeth condemned before the Lord; for there remaineth in him the greater sin.” (D&C 64: 9.)

To enter into the kingdom of heaven, all men must lay down their sins. But this they cannot do when they claim the right to restitution for any offense from their brother. All claims must be set aside, the greater and more difficult being the righteous claim against another for their deliberate offense. Yet in asking for justice for yourself, you always require justice be answered in turn for all of your offenses A man will not be given mercy if he is not merciful. Alma taught this plainly to his son, Corianton, so he might be redeemed. Mormon preserved this teaching that all men who read the Book of Mormon may be redeemed and have claim on mercy:

Now, there was a punishment affixed, and a just law given, which brought remorse of conscience unto man. Now, if there was no law given—if a man murdered he should die—would he be afraid he would die if he should murder? And also, if there was no law given against sin men would not be afraid to sin. And if there was no law given, if men sinned what could justice do, or mercy either, for they would have no claim upon the creature? But there is a law given, and a punishment affixed, and a repentance granted; which repentance, mercy claimeth; otherwise, justice claimeth the creature and executeth the law, and the law inflicteth the punishment; if not so, the works of justice would be destroyed, and God would cease to be God. But God ceaseth not to be God, and mercy claimeth the penitent, and mercy cometh because of the atonement; and the atonement bringeth to pass the resurrection of the dead; and the resurrection of the dead bringeth back men into the presence of God; and thus they are restored into his presence, to be judged according to their works, according to the law and justice. For behold, justice exerciseth all his demands, and also mercy claimeth all which is her own; and thus, none but the truly penitent are saved. What, do ye suppose that mercy can rob justice? I say unto you, Nay; not one whit. If so, God would cease to be God. And thus God bringeth about his great and eternal purposes, which were prepared from the foundation of the world. And thus cometh about the salvation and the redemption of men, and also their destruction and misery. Therefore, O my son, whosoever will come may come and partake of the waters of life freely; and whosoever will not come the same is not compelled to come; but in the last day it shall be restored unto him according to his deeds. If he has desired to do evil, and has not repented in his days, behold, evil shall be done unto him, according to the restoration of God.” (Alma 42: 18–28.)

Now I know these things to be true, and the Lord has permitted them to be made known to anyone who will believe so they may repent and forgive one another, and may in turn have claims on mercy for themselves. It is certain Christ is able to heal us of any affliction which this life may visit upon any of us, but only if we will forgive one another and come to Him. He can teach all how to forgive. No matter how terrible the offense, He has the knowledge to lead us to peace.

When men come to the Lord seeking forgiveness, He will prepare the means for each of them to obtain forgiveness. The way will be opened for them to forgive so they in turn may be forgiven. In this way all may come to know their Lord.

Do not depart this life while still harboring resentment against any person. It does not matter how just the claim may be, we must surrender our claims for justice to merit mercy. Find a way to forgive all those who transgress against you before leaving mortality and, by showing mercy to them, you will find mercy for yourself. As Joseph Smith put it:

I charged the Saints not to follow the example of the adversary in accusing the brethren, and said, “If you do not accuse each other, God will not accuse you. If you have no accuser you will enter heaven, and if you will follow the revelations and instructions which God gives you through me, I will take you into heaven as my back load. If you will not accuse me, I will not accuse you. If you will throw a cloak of charity over my sins, I will over yours-for charity covereth a multitude of sins.” (TPJS p. 193.)

This path to knowing God’s goodness has been made known to every people in every generation. It can be felt whenever any man has shown mercy to his fellowman. Christ taught this, but the light of Christ leads all those who seek wisdom to find this truth. God is no respecter of persons. Blessed are the merciful, for they will always obtain mercy. More blessed are those who love, for God is love.

To obtain perfect charity, however, a man must make intercession for those who offend him. Christ taught: “I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven[.]” (Matt. 5: 44–45.) He wants us to go beyond merely forgiving others. He wants us to become like Him, and atone or cover the sins of others. Through intercession on behalf of our enemies, we not only learn to understand Him, we also learn to be like Him. This is what Christ did. This is what Stephen did. All those who have the hope of Christ within them will do likewise. 

And now here is Naegle’s testimony, as published in the book, Preserving the Restoration:

Testimony of Louis Naegle

At the time of this writing I am a member in good standing of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I was born and raised in Salt Lake City, entirely a direct descendant of ‘proud Nauvoo’ and pioneer ancestors. To my knowledge, every one of my direct predecessors were active members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint while Brigham Young was president, and most were members before that time. My forefathers include John Conrad Naegle, Levi Savage, Joseph Leland Heywood, John D Lee, Thomas Ross, Levi Bracken, James McFate, Joseph Cadwallader Davis, George Zimmerman, John Harvey, George Prince, James Jackson, Joseph Woolsey, James Bell, Owen Williams, John Davies, and James Crawford. All of my great-great-grandparents were church members.

As far as bloodline heritage is concerned, I think it would be impossible to be more “Mormon” than am I. I say this not to boast but as part of a solemn testimony and declaration:

I am not a dissenter trying to “destroy the kingdom”. I am instead a descendant of those who built “the kingdom” and I am attempting to make the pathway straight and the record clear. I believe this is in the best tradition of the pioneers who were trying to live a true religion. I reject the notion that I am apostate, I know I will answer to my forefathers and to my Father for the testimony I give, and therefore I want most of all to be true to the faith once held by my fathers.

Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of the current church management and culture will understand what publishing this testimony will mean to me and my family. I anticipate retaliation from the church, and although it saddens me, I am resigned to facing those consequences. I do not claim to be righteous, but I am a witness.

I testify that the Lord has set His hand a second time to restore the truth through His servant before the great and dreadful day that fast approaches. I have known Denver Snuffer since 2007. I have attended every public talk he has given since that time, including all ten lectures of the Forty Years in Mormonism series. I have read what he has written. I am a witness that events he now shares in public concerning his interactions with his stake presidents and church leaders were shared with me by Denver at the time they were happening and while he was in good standing with the church. He valued his church membership greatly and the events he now shares publicly have not been fabricated or reconstructed after the fact to support an agenda of his own design.

I know God the Father and Jesus Christ live. I have seen them. I know Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. I have been in his presence also. I believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God. I have had my eyes opened and my life changed through its message. I also know from my own sense of reason, from the testimony of the Holy Ghost, and from God declaring it to me by His own Voice that Denver C. Snuffer, Jr. is an honest messenger, sent by Him, and telling the truth.

Please do not ignore what is written in this book. Please do not take this warning lightly. I implore all who read this testimony to repent and return to Jesus Christ, the God of Israel and savior of the world. Receive the words of a true prophet, but follow no man! Do not allow any man or group to come between you and your Savior. To the extent you do so, you are laboring in idolatry and you will damn yourself and any who follow you in doing likewise. (D&C 76:100).

Jesus Christ alone is the Holy One. He employs no servant at that gate through which we all must pass. The fullness of the gentiles is now fulfilled except for our impending destruction. Who cannot see that all is not well in so-called “Zion.” Only a few repentant gentiles will be gathered. Only the penitent of the House of Israel will establish the New Jerusalem. Will you be among them?

Save what was given through the Prophet and Seer Joseph Smith, what is offered in this book contains the most light and truth that has been presented in writing in almost 2,000 years.

Denver has openly testified that Jesus Christ has ministered to him. I testify this is true, and that he has been called as a servant to declare the heavens are open again for all to freely partake of the Heavenly Gift.

If you will consider the message of this book from a servant sent to deliver it, with a sincere heart and real intent, you will also know that what is presented is true and faithful. If you will not consider it, but instead harden your heart, you will be damned. God is working to save us, and this book is part of God’s kindness in forewarning us about our present state. Even if you find it hard to believe, it is important for us to see and understand our circumstances.

I leave this testimony with you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost;

Amen.

-Louis Naegle
August 29, 2015”

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9 Comments

  1. Fascinating times we live in. Always appreciate your writting.

  2. Most human creatures seem wired to follow. A rare few claim responsibility for their existence and forge outside of the herd. None, however, that stick out their necks, do so without getting bruised and bloodied. Alas, almost all are content to follow the lead of someone who claims to know where all the landmines are buried.

    These two men, Snuffer and Naegle, are among the rare few. (metaphorically) Their blood is spilled by those who once embraced them as beloved.

    I did not recognize His hand in key events of my life until looking back over the past 25 years of joys and sorrows, now recognizing He was pulling me out of Babylon with every failed attempt on my part to stay immersed in it. After 50 years of laziness, I began asking the Lord “are You in this [CJCLDS], is this of You?” He answered, “remember that attorney, one of those who helped the man that robbed you of your life’s savings? I have called him as my servant and his heart is mine and by him I will call out the pure in heart from this church, read on” … and I did.

    I follow no one but the Lord (ala 2 Nephi 4: 34-35). His servants teach 100% truth, and like King Benjamin, offer to walk shoulder-to-shoulder with anyone that chooses to walk with them. I have chosen to walk with Denver C. Snuffer, Jr. and Louis Steiner Neagle; let the consequences follow.

    Roy Moore
    Monroe, Utah

  3. I am fairly new to this blog. I lean more towards accepting Denver Snuffer as a true messenger, but have had some doctrinal concerns in the past. Can you place links to your most pertinent posts which explain your reasons why you believe he is a false prophet? I would like to read and consider them.

  4. Also, in your post Shutting the Mouths of False Teachers you claim that all of those trying to apply the Abinadi type to Denver are wrong because Abinadi was on the inside of the “church”. However, when Denver came out to warn them as Abinadi, he too was coming from on the inside.

  5. First of all, I want to thank the Anarchist for bringing about this discussion. I hope many people will share their opinions on this very important subject.

    My opinion is that no one on earth is parting the heavens, currently.

    I do not think Denver Snuffer is a liar, nor do I think that anyone who claims to have seen Christ is lying either…

    Jesus said that in the last days, false prophets and false Christs would arise. I believe that anyone who claims to have seen Jesus has sadly seen a false Christ instead. I believe that no one has received sanctification/a baptism of fire since 1836 (at the very latest.) You have to receive sanctification in order to to see Jesus Christ, and no one can receive sanctification right now because no one is following the commandments of God.

    I don’t mean to be insensitive to other people’s personal spiritual experiences, but according to the scriptures it is impossible to receive the second comforter at this point in time and in this dispensation.

    I cover this on my blog in great detail https://theworkofthefather.wordpress.com/ — nonetheless I will cover some major points here.

    *

    In 1831, Joseph Smith received Section 42, which is the law of the gospel.

    Section 41 told us that “he that receiveth my law, and doeth it, the same is my disciple; and he that saith he receiveth it and doeth it not, the same is not my disciple.”

    To be a disciple of Jesus Christ we must live the law of the gospel that God gave us. If we don’t, we are not a disciple of Jesus Christ and are not living his gospel. If we aren’t living his gospel, we can’t receive the Holy Ghost/baptism of fire. If we haven’t received a baptism of fire, we are not clean before the Lord and he does not dwell in unclean places, so therefore he cannot dwell in our presence.

    The Saints were called unto the everlasting gospel, and covenanted with an “everlasting covenant” (Section 101:39), but in Section 104, we read that the covenants had been broken (verse 52). The law of consecration was no longer in place, for instance. Section 42/law of the gospel REQUIRED the law of consecration. The Saints were not living the commandments of God as contained in The Book of Commandments (1833).

    In 1835, they were no longer “Commandments” but “Covenants”. The Saints got the Doctrine and Covenants. The church was placed on probation. This is why the baptismal prayer was changed in the 1835 D&C– they were no longer living the fulness of the gospel as contained in the Book of Mormon, so they did not have the authority of the “everlasting covenant”; they did not have the fulness of the priesthood that accompanies Zion.

    In Nauvoo, they were given the chance to return back to the commandments. This was contingent on building the Nauvoo House, where the fulness of the priesthood would be restored back into the church.

    To receive the fulness of the priesthood, you need to covenant with an everlasting covenant, which includes living all the commandments as contained in Section 42, the law of the gospel, which, again, includes the law of consecration.

    The Nauvoo Temple (Section 97) was said to be built by TITHING (law of consecration) by those ordained to the fulness of the priesthood. In the Nauvoo Temple they would receive their sanctification and be able to part the heavens.

    But they did not build the Nauvoo House to receive the fulness of the priesthood. They went ahead and started building the Nauvoo Temple without the priesthood they needed to do such. The temple was not built because it was not built by Melchizedek priesthood holders.

    Mormons have been indoctrinated to believe they hold the Melchizedek priesthood, but that priesthood was lost to the earth after the church failed to live the commandments of God in Section 42; and as such did not redeem Zion.

    Mormons DO NOT hold the Melchizedek priesthood which IS the fulness of the priesthood.

    Section 84 talks about the oath and covenant of the Melchizedek priesthood, and says that, “without this, no man can see the face of God.”

    Because the priesthood was lost from the earth, no one can currently see the face of God.

    I realize that everything I’ve written opens up a can of worms, and creates more questions and confusion.

    I know that Denver has taught that the Melchizedek priesthood was restored in 1831, on the Morley Farm, as documented in Section 52. This is correct. However, the followers of his movement must decide whether or not this priesthood has remained on the earth.

    Nothing else matters. It doesn’t matter what DS says or does. It doesn’t matter if he makes frogs fall from the sky. Has he been properly ordained to the priesthood after the order of the Son of God…? Because without it, no man can see the face of God. That’s what the D&C says, and I take the word of God very seriously.

    -G.azelem

  6. As far as our historical record goes, Joseph Smith did not have the Fullness of the Priesthood prior to His First Vision. (We know that Denver has intimated that Joseph came to earth with it – but if that was so, why did he need to receive it again in June of 1831?) Neither was there a House of God nor a Temple of God available to him to receive this Highest Priesthood prior to the First Vision. Therefore – he saw God without having those ordinances first.

    Also, there was no dedicated House of God nor Temple of God to receive the Fullness of Priesthood prior to the June 1831 Conference at the Morley Farm where the Father and Son appeared to at least 4 brethren. This was just a farm house which probably wasn’t even dedicated for that purpose before hand. It was AT that farm – not in a Temple or House of God – where the Fullness of the Priesthood was first given.

    Therefore, the idea that Section 84 suggests – that without the ordinances of the Fullness of the Priesthood it is impossible to see the Face of God – would seem to incorrect.

    The point being – that historical precedent would seem to show that yes, Denver (and others) could see the Face of God without the Fullness of the Priesthood being restored yet. Doesn’t this call into question what section 84 says?

    Of course, it would seem that the only way for what this commenter said below to be true – would be to accept that there was no First Vision of Joseph seeing the Father and Son in 1820 because the Fullness of the Priesthood was NOT yet restored (1831). And that his first real spiritual experience would have been when the Angel Moroni visits him (ministering Angels). Indeed, this was the only event discussed by Joseph with some of the earliest converts – as none of their journal entries even mention Joseph’s First Vision – only the visit of Angels to Joseph. There isn’t any contemporary records between 1820-1832 of Joseph mentioning his First Vision experience. And, there is no contemporary report of any story of Joseph saying that he had this experience in anyone from that area about a boy claiming the experience of seeing God and/or Christ – no newspaper reports, no contemporary writings of journals of those in the area.

    This certainly doesn’t mean that it did NOT happen – but it was NOT discussed by Joseph publicly (outside of his family) until the first account was written in 1832 – which account clearly shows that he only saw ONE personage.

    Regardless, if what the commenter says is true, then it would mean that Joseph or anyone couldn’t have even seen God until after June of 1831 and that the Morley Farm would have had to have been dedicated as a House of God prior to the Fullness being given. THEN they could see the Face of God.

    All of this brings into question whether or not a dedicated Temple is even necessary or any of these ordinances because our whole faith shows that you CAN see the Face of God without first having gone to a Temple or House of God as evidenced by Joseph (1820) and Sidney (1832) and at least 4 others (1831) who all saw God without going through a Temple first and without first living the entire law and without receiving all of the ordinances first.

    Am I incorrect?

  7. I’ll answer the easy question first, before starting on the difficult one.

    In 1831, the Saints were not required to build a House of God to receive the fulness of the priesthood, because the church was poor and did not have the funds. Section 124:30 talks about the ordinances, and says that they, “belongeth to my house, and cannot be acceptable to me, ONLY in the days of your poverty, wherein ye are not able to build a house unto me.”

    When the Saints are in poverty, they don’t need a dedicated holy place; they are permitted to receive the ordinances anywhere. Section 52 they were ordained to the Melchizedek priesthood, and then received sanctification as recorded in Sections 84 and 88.

    Section 88 is where they are first commanded to build a House/Temple. From that point on, I assume that no more sanctification would occur, because they were no longer in poverty.

    Now the difficult question:

    How did Joseph Smith see God while not having been ordained to the fulness of the priesthood!? I’ve thought long and hard about this, and have arrived at many different conclusions. I’m still trying to figure it out, but I have a few different theories…. I might start rambling here BTW.

    There is the possibility that Joseph did not have a visitation, but a vision. He does say that he came to consciousness afterwards lying on his back. To me, that sounds like a dream, a revelation through the spirit. We also know that his 1838 account was quite embellished, and was given to the Saints that had rejected the fulness of the gospel. The 1838 Book of Mormon takes out many passages that show Jesus is the Father, so it’s practical that his 1838 first vision account would do the same and highlight there being two personages instead of the one he saw in 1832.

    The very interesting thing about the 1838 account, if you read closely, it that the Father is actually the one talking to Joseph and telling him to join none of the churches. It would make more sense that Christ was speaking, but it’s the Father in the 1838 account. So the person talking in the 1832 account is Christ, and the personage talking in 1838 is the Father. Why is this? Because Jesus is the Father and the Father is Jesus.

    Just as Joseph purposefully added to the confusion of understanding priesthood, his 1838 account ALSO added to the confusion… But there’s just enough hints and clues to tie it all together. I also might mention that the 1838 Book of Mormon removed the passage in 3rd Nephi 16 that the Gentiles would reject the fulness of the gospel. Why is this so? Because the 1838 Book of Mormon was FOR the people that had rejected the fulness of the gospel. This is proof that Joseph was purposefully priming the church for four generations of confusion, and his 1838 account is no doubt a small part of that.

    I have another theory, M, but I think I will email it to you instead of sharing it here.

    -G.azelem

  8. I see that there is a misunderstanding of the verse

    For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: (Matthew 6:14)

    D.Snuffer interprets it to mean

    There are many things men do that they lack the capacity to make amends. The price they must pay for their own transgressions are paid by forgiving all others of their offenses.

    No, the price they must pay is repenting of those specific sins. You cannot be forgiven for stealing, lying or abusing your body by simply forgiving others.

    The context that Jesus had in mind in Mat.6:14 was that a person has received a remission of sins and was made clean before the Lord first. Only then this verse is applicable – that person must immediately forgive any wrongdoing in order to retain his forgiven state.

  9. https://ldsanarchy.wordpress.com/2013/08/25/denver-snuffers-passing-the-heavenly-gift-does-its-publication-constitute-an-act-of-apostasy/#comment-17209

    Still hasn’t repented of passing off Joseph’s prophecy as his. What’s the scripture about everyone man stealing a vision from his neighbor?


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