Where We Are on the Prophetic Timeline: The Times of Types and Shadows


Not too long ago I came across a post from the Upward Thought blog called, The Seals of the Book of Revelation Do Not Represent Each 1000 Years, and, to be honest, I just skimmed through it at the time, but I caught that it put forth the idea that the seals mentioned by John the Revelator were still future events and that D&C 77 wasn’t reliable information.  I discounted the latter idea (about D&C 77) but decided to review the book of Revelation later concerning the seals.  I then forgot all about it.

Then I published the last post (The definition of eternal) and I found myself quoting from section 77 of the Doctrine and Covenants, so I thought maybe I ought not to put off looking at the book of Revelation and D&C 77 and also other prophetic timelines.  The new scriptural search I did took my old beliefs concerning these things and tossed them right out the window.  I now have a new understanding, which I will share right now.

I will use today’s date [Monday, March 21, 2016] and insert it into each of these prophetic timelines to show where we are.

John’s apocalyptic book of Revelation

Past

JST Rev. 4:1After this I looked, and behold, a door was opened into heaven; and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said,

Come up hither, and I will show thee things which must be hereafter.

Present

[Monday, March 21, 2016]

Future

Revelation 4:2 and on.

Explanation:  Everything John saw, whether it was in the extreme future—(for example: JST Rev. 4:6“And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal” and D&C 77:1“Q. What is the sea of glass spoken of by John, 4th chapter, and 6th verse of the Revelation?  A. It is the earth, in its sanctified, immortal, and eternal state.)—or in the extreme past (for example: JST Rev. 12:6“And there was war in heaven;”) were to signify “things which must be hereafter,” meaning after the time of John’s vision.

The Revelation of John is the revelation of the seven seals and the events that take place once these seals are opened:

D&C 77:6Q. What are we to understand by the book which John saw, which was sealed on the back with seven seals?

A. We are to understand that it contains the revealed will, mysteries, and the works of God; the hidden things of his economy concerning this earth during the seven thousand years of its continuance, or its temporal existence.

7Q. What are we to understand by the seven seals with which it was sealed?

A. We are to understand that the first seal contains the things of the first thousand years, and the second also of the second thousand years, and so on until the seventh.

The first seal, then, is a revelation of the “will, mysteries, and the works of God; the hidden things of his economy concerning this earth during the first thousand years of its continuance, or its temporal existence.”  The second seal is a revelation of the “will, mysteries, and the works of God; the hidden things of his economy concerning this earth during the second thousand years of its continuance, or its temporal existence.”  And so on until the seventh.

After each seal is opened, or after each revelation is unfolded in the eyes of the people, John saw events happen on earth.  These events were future to him.

When are the earthly events associated with the opening of these seals supposed to happen?  The Book of Mormon gives us the answer:

Ether 4:13Come unto me, O ye Gentiles, and I will show unto you the greater things, the knowledge which is hid up because of unbelief.

14Come unto me, O ye house of Israel, and it shall be made manifest unto you how great things the Father hath laid up for you, from the foundation of the world; and it hath not come unto you, because of unbelief.

15Behold, when ye shall rend that veil of unbelief which doth cause you to remain in your awful state of wickedness, and hardness of heart, and blindness of mind, then shall the great and marvelous things which have been hid up from the foundation of the world from you—yea, when ye shall call upon the Father in my name, with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, then shall ye know that the Father hath remembered the covenant which he made unto your fathers, O house of Israel.

16And then shall my revelations which I have caused to be written by my servant John be unfolded in the eyes of all the people. Remember, when ye see these things, ye shall know that the time is at hand that they shall be made manifest in very deed.

So, first the Book of Mormon has to come forth (and remember, this hasn’t happened, yet.)  Then, the Lord’s people must rend the veil of unbelief.  Once that happens, the seals will begin to be opened and the revelations of each of the thousand years will be given to the saints, and the accompanying earth events associated with these revelations will go forth.

Again, when do these seals get opened?

D&C 77:10Q. What time are the things spoken of in this [7th] chapter to be accomplished?

A. They are to be accomplished in the sixth thousand years, or the opening of the sixth seal.

12Q. What are we to understand by the sounding of the trumpets, mentioned in the 8th chapter of Revelation?

A. We are to understand that as God made the world in six days, and on the seventh day he finished his work, and sanctified it, and also formed man out of the dust of the earth, even so, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years will the Lord God sanctify the earth, and complete the salvation of man, and judge all things, and shall redeem all things, except that which he hath not put into his power, when he shall have sealed all things, unto the end of all things; and the sounding of the trumpets of the seven angels are the preparing and finishing of his work, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years—the preparing of the way before the time of his coming.

13Q. When are the things to be accomplished, which are written in the 9th chapter of Revelation?

A. They are to be accomplished after the opening of the seventh seal, before the coming of Christ.

So the events associated with the opening of the first six seals take place during the sixth thousand years, while the events associated with the opening of the seventh seal take place “in the beginning of the seventh thousand years.”

Given that none of these things have occurred yet, we can assume that the “meridian of time” in which Jesus came is an uncounted portion of these thousands of years.  As there were 4,000 years before the birth of Christ, this means that the fifth thousand years began in AD 33 and the sixth thousand years began in AD 1033 and will end in 2033.  So, between now [March 21, 2016] and April 6th, 2033, the events associated with the opening of the first six seals must take place, and the events associated with the opening of the seventh seal will take place after April 6th, 2033.

In other words, not a single thing from the book of Revelations has happened, yet.  What we—and all the Christians and others who look at the book of Revelation and then say, “Prophecy is happening before our very eyes!”—are seeing are merely types and shadows.

Now, going back to the Upward Thought blog and actually reading it this time, it seems that the idea for the seals being events future to John actually comes from Joseph Smith himself.  So, I guess I’m in good company on this.  Quoting from that blog post:

It turns out we do have teachings from Joseph Smith on the Book of Revelation outside of D&C 77. This comes from “Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith”:

There is a grand difference and distinction between the visions and figures spoken of by the ancient prophets, and those spoken of in the revelations of John. The things which John saw had no allusion to the scenes of the days of Adam, Enoch, Abraham or Jesus, only so far as is plainly represented by John, and clearly set forth by him. John saw that only which was lying in futurity and which was shortly subject: “The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto Him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and He sent and signified it by His angel unto His servant John: who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of his prophecy and keep those things that are written therein: for the time is at hand.” Also Rev. 4:1. “After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven; and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will show thee things which must be hereafter.”….Now, I make this declaration, that those things which John saw in heaven had no allusion to anything that had been on the earth previous to that time, because they were the representation of “things which must shortly come to pass,” and not of what has already transpired. John saw beasts that had to do with things on the earth, but not in past ages. The beasts which John saw had to devour the inhabitants of the earth in days to come. ….The revelations do not give us to understand anything of the past in relation to the kingdom of God. What John saw and speaks of were things which he saw in heaven; those which Daniel saw were on and pertaining to the earth.

Nephi’s apocalyptic vision

Past

1 Ne. 13:1And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, saying:

Look!

And I looked and beheld many nations and kingdoms.  2And the angel said unto me:

What beholdest thou?

And I said:

I behold many nations and kingdoms.

3And he said unto me:

These are the nations and kingdoms of the Gentiles.

Present

[Monday, March 21, 2016]

Future

4And it came to pass that I saw among the nations of the Gentiles the formation of a great church.  5And the angel said unto me:

Behold the formation of a church which is most abominable above all other churches, which slayeth the saints of God, yea, and tortureth them and bindeth them down, and yoketh them with a yoke of iron, and bringeth them down into captivity.

There certainly are, and have been, many nations and kingdoms of the Gentiles, but there has been no formation of the great and abominable church among the nations of the Gentiles, as yet.  This church’s formation is the first sign of the apocalypse and last days events.  Notice, though, that there are already saints of God on the scene when this church is formed, for the church begins to torture and kill and imprison them.  The fact that there are latter-day saints on the earth today among the nations and kingdoms of the Gentiles means that all is in prophetic readiness.  We are just awaiting the formation of this quite literal church.

People are free to apply the portion of the vision found in 1 Ne. 13:4 through 1 Ne. 14 to the events of today, but it is my understanding that these are just types and shadows.  Now, let’s fast-forward to:

1 Ne. 14:15And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was poured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the nations and kindreds of the earth.  16And as there began to be wars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying:

Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things—17and when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose founder is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence, in preparing the way for the fulfilling of his covenants, which he hath made to his people who are of the house of Israel.

Then Nephi is shown John, who the angel says will write the rest of the apocalyptic vision. And what is the rest of the vision? The opening of the seals.

Nephi’s end times prophecy

In 2 Ne. 25 Nephi gives an end time prophecy which he finishes in 2 Ne. 30.  “I give unto you a prophecy, according to the spirit which is in me” (2 Ne. 25:4), “I proceed with mine own prophecy, according to my plainness” (2 Ne. 25:7), “And now, my beloved brethren, I make an end of my sayings” (2 Ne. 30:18), and “And now I, Nephi, make an end of my prophesying unto you, my beloved brethren” (2 Ne. 31:1).  Where do we fit into the timeline of this prophecy?  Here:

Past

2 Ne. 26:14But behold, I prophesy unto you concerning the last days; concerning the days when the Lord God shall bring these things forth unto the children of men.  15After my seed and the seed of my brethren shall have dwindled in unbelief,

Present

[Monday, March 21, 2016]

Future

15and shall have been smitten by the Gentiles; yea, after the Lord God shall have camped against them round about, and shall have laid siege against them with a mount, and raised forts against them; and after they shall have been brought down low in the dust, even that they are not, yet the words of the righteous shall be written, and the prayers of the faithful shall be heard, and all those who have dwindled in unbelief shall not be forgotten.

The Gentiles have not yet brought the remnant so low in the dust that they are not. They’ve come close, but it’s not a perfect fulfillment, so what happened previously was yet another shadow fulfillment.  This means that most of chapter 26 and all of chapters 27-30 are still future events.

Daniel’s apocalyptic visions

Daniel’s end time visions, found in Daniel chapters 7 to 12, largely deal with kingdoms and kings.   John’s vision also dealt with kingdoms and kings.  Although our times [Monday, March 21, 2016] have some kingdoms among a bunch of nations, most of these kingdoms are constitutional monarchies, with essentially powerless kings.  The future, as I understand it, will mark a return to the absolute monarchy.  This is why both Daniel and John speak at great length about these things, which are largely absent today.  Daniel, then, saw things that are still future to us.

Some loose ends and final thoughts

Nephi prophesied:

1 Ne. 22:7And it meaneth that the time cometh that after all the house of Israel have been scattered and confounded, that the Lord God will raise up a mighty nation among the Gentiles, yea, even upon the face of this land; and by them shall our seed be scattered.

This mighty nation is typically interpreted by latter-day saints as being The United States of America under the United States Constitution, but that might be just a shadow fulfillment.  It may, instead, be The United States of America under the New Articles of Confederation (NAC).  I prophesied that the Josephite restorer will use his faith to bring us into a new set of perfected articles of confederation, and this event would certainly qualify as fulfilling Nephi’s prophecy that “the Lord God will raise up a mighty nation among the Gentiles.”  In other words, God Himself, using His miraculous power, will create a new nation in a day, through His appointed miracle-working seer.  Such an event shows God directly raising up the nation Himself, explicitly fulfilling the prophecy.  There would be no need to “try and make current events fit” into the prophecy, like is done with the Revolutionary War.  They would simply fit, altogether perfectly.

If, then, the NAC is the document that the Josephite is going to cause to be installed, by his faith, then its installation must precede the scattering and smiting of the remnant.  But what about the great and abominable church?  Does it precede or follow the NAC’s installation?

An interesting thing about the NAC is its strong language against kings and secret combinations.  I think, then, that the formation of the great and abominable church may be a sort of knee-jerk reaction against the Josephite and the new set of articles of confederation that he puts in place.  So I give it as my opinion that first comes the Josephite and the NAC (or something like it) and a slew of miracles from this guy, and then we get the rapid formation of the abominable church, in order for the wicked to try to deal with and stop him.

I say this because not only are saints on the scene when the abominable church is formed, but also miracles also appear to be on the scene:

1 Ne. 26:20And the Gentiles are lifted up in the pride of their eyes, and have stumbled, because of the greatness of their stumbling block, that they have built up many churches; nevertheless, they put down the power and miracles of God, and preach up unto themselves their own wisdom and their own learning, that they may get gain and grind upon the face of the poor.

Now, most latter-day saints would interpret that as meaning that they will simply say that there are no more miracles done any more, but that is not how I read this text.  I read it as that there are miracles occurring among the saints, or at least through this Josephite, and these miracles are causing a whole lot of problems for the various Christian and other churches and denominations out there.  After all, if you’ve got a guy saying that the Mormon church (LDS church) is God’s only true church and fold, and he’s emptying out hospitals of the sick and afflicted, and doing all sorts of other miracles, people are going to start flocking to his church (the LDS church.)  How do you deal with this onslaught of miracles, from a pastor’s perspective?  Well, one way, perhaps, is to unite the various churches into a single church conglomerate, a sort of great church, united against this man and his Mormon church.

So, it seems to me that the Josephite, the NAC and the Josephite’s never-ending mighty miracles, must precede the formation of the great and abominable church.  He, then, is the initial sign that gets everything prophetically moving, but how do we know when he is active on the scene?

I’ve already written that I believe now that that California earthquake I prophesied about, and the Josephite, are prophetically linked.  So, he is going to cause the earthquake.  This means it won’t be naturally occurring, but a miraculous event.  I now also believe that this “earthquake” might not even be a singular earthquake, at all, but a series of earthquakes, unleashed on the same day, in increasing magnitude over time, in a manner that cannot be explained as naturally occurring.  In other words, it seems to me that he is going to make it unmistakably clear that we are witnessing a mighty miracle, so that the entire nation and the whole entire world suddenly turn their attention to him.  This can only cause a full and complete combination of the wicked, to face this new threat to their power, hence the formation of the great and abominable church.

One last thing, and then I’ll end this post:  The angel that John saw having the seal of the living God, appears to me now as being the Josephite:

JST Rev. 7:1And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.  2And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God; and I heard him cry with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3saying,

Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

D&C 77:9Q. What are we to understand by the angel ascending from the east, Revelation 7th chapter and 2nd verse?

A. We are to understand that the angel ascending from the east is he to whom is given the seal of the living God over the twelve tribes of Israel; wherefore, he crieth unto the four angels having the everlasting gospel, saying: Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And, if you will receive it, this is Elias which was to come to gather together the tribes of Israel and restore all things.

So, maybe what I’ve written above (if believed) will allow people to sleep a little more restfully.  The presidential elections will not mark the end of American civilization, nor is it, as yet, the end of the world.  We are not even yet in the end or last times.  It is still very much just the latter days and despite the doom and gloom crowd, we can expect a work of miracles to be forthcoming, before any of the “bad” signs happen, since it is also my understanding that the Josephite is already among us somewhere in this church.

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20 Comments

  1. (Don’t mind me. I just feel like writing another blog-length post, but in this comment.)

    The Jew, the Josephite and the GAC

    It seems to me that both the Jew (John, the apostle of Christ, who is the fruit of the loins of Judah) and the Josephite (Joseph-Nephi, who is the fruit of the loins of Joseph) will appear on the scene around the same time, and this dual ministry will cause both the churches and religions of the world, as well as the political entities, to panic, thus initiating the rapid formation of the Great and Abominable Church (GAC).

    Rev. 10:8-11 has John commissioned to participate in end time events and prophesy before nations again. So, he is expected not only by Mormons, but also perhaps by Christians. As he is a translated entity, he will not be able to be killed. It appears that his ministry will be outside of America, among the foreign Gentiles. So, John will appear, minister, prophesy and convert many foreign Gentiles into saints of God, giving them a book, called the book of the Lamb of God. This book undoubtedly will just serve to confirm the truth of Joseph Smith’s testimony and of Mormonism, therefore, his converts will likely be viewed as heretics by their religious contemporaries. If some of these heretical converts of John are notable people of great influence, this will pose a huge problem to the churches and religions of the world. How do you shut these newly-made saints’ mouths to stop the mass exodus of people from the established religions and churches?

    At the same time, on the American front, the appearance of Joseph-Nephi will create both a political and a religious panic among the governments and churches of the world. His new mighty nation will completely destroy all the progress that has been gained in establishing a world government, the so-called New World Order. Not only will there be a mass exodus from the various churches and religions into the Josephite’s church (the Mormon church), but there will be a mass exodus from the nations of the world, everyone rushing to get to the new land of true freedom.

    This double impact of seers, two witnesses sent by the Lord at the same time (fulfilling the law of witnesses), will halt everything the globalists had been doing, causing them to scrap the New World Order plans altogether, in favor of making, instead, a Great Church. This is why the term “new world order” is not found in scriptural prophecy, but “great and abominable church” is. There is no New World Order in end time prophecy, nor any of the other secret societies and terms bandied about by the globalists today.

    John’s ministry seems to me to take a secondary role to the Josephite’s ministry. John is returning as an angel, whereas the Josephite is living out his life the first time. Joseph-Nephi, then, will be the one in charge. For this reason, it may be that when the Josephite “out of weakness is made strong,” it will be after the same manner as Joseph Smith’s First Vision, with a glorious vision, in which he sees the Godhead and many angels. One of those angels may be the translated John, who will “be sent” tout suite by the Josephite upon his mission to the foreign Gentiles, to preach and prophesy to them, convert them and give them the book of the Lamb of God. And while John is “over there” doing his thing, the Josephite will be here doing his own thing.

    After John finishes his mission of prophesying again before nations, kindreds, tongues and people, the end time prophecies are silent concerning him, so that may be the extent of his end time mission. Back he goes from whence he came. However, the Josephite will be here to stay until the very end.

    The GAC will have no separation of church and state. They will have power not only to kill, but to torture and imprison, just like a state. It, then, will represent a total and rapid consolidation of all power under a single head, to face the dual threat to existing power structures posed by the ministries of John and Joseph-Nephi. The former separation of powers will vanish overnight. The new system cannot be just a political structure, because the Josephite’s miracles and the Jew’s book also need to be stopped, so they will opt for a “divine system,” even a church. A great church that has the blessing of all the churches of the world, as well as all the world’s governments.

    The Jew and the Josephite, then, will be proactive entities, whereas the formation of the GAC will be a reactive measure taken against them and their works.

    Latter-day saints who continually interpret the GAC as a mere symbol are simply wrong, as proved by this verse:

    1 Ne. 14:10And he said unto me:

    Behold there are save two churches [two literal churches or two symbolic churches?] only; the one is the [literal or symbolic?] church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the [literal or symbolic?] church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the [literal or symbolic?] church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great [literal or symbolic?] church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.

    All the uses of the word church or churches in this verse can only be interpreted as either all literal or as all symbolic, not as both literal and symbolic. It is plainly obvious that the use of church is to be taken as literal, whereas the use of “mother of abominations” and “whore of all the earth” are obvious symbols. This vision is written in plainness and anyone who tries to force a different interpretation of what the GAC is in these passages is wresting them.

    Because the GAC, then, is and must be an actual church, and as there is nothing that corresponds to its description, nor has there ever been anything that fits it, the formation of the GAC is yet future to us, which makes the rest of the prophecy yet future to us, as well, since the GAC is the very first thing that happens in this vision, which is written chronologically.

    The motivation of the formation of the GAC, then, is an interesting thought experiment, and in my current opinion, the ministries of the Jew and the Josephite in the manner I have given, seem to me to be sufficient triggers to make the wicked form a global, universal, “great” church, in opposition to the truth put forth by these dual seers.

    The GAC’s motivation for torturing John’s converts becomes clear, if they are trying to get a “confession” from the converts, to have them deny their testimony. Imprisoning those who are too dangerous to kill, who refuse to deny the Christ, also makes sense. And those who are unimportant figures, who refuse to deny their testimonies of Christ, can simply be killed. So, these actions of the GAC make sense, if we assume that John has ministered in power to these new saints and given them this book of the Lamb of God. And we end up getting a repeat scenario of that found at the end of the Nephite civilization, in which Mormon taught the believers:

    Moro. 7:44 If so, his faith and hope is vain, for none is acceptable before God, save the meek and lowly in heart; and if a man be meek and lowly in heart, and confesses by the power of the Holy Ghost that Jesus is the Christ, he must needs have charity; for if he have not charity he is nothing; wherefore he must needs have charity.

    When someone is holding a gun to your head, demanding that you deny the Christ and your testimony, or be killed in the next instant, you had better have gotten to the point in your faith journey where you can look the man in the face and confess by the power of the Holy Ghost that Jesus is the Christ. These converts of John will have reached that point, hence these despicable acts of the GAC against them.

    As usual, though, the Lord only allows the destruction of His saints for a time, before making moves to save them. The Josephite, on the American front, by making a new, mighty nation of freedom, will be setting up a means of escape for these saints, or a place of security, to which they can escape to. And so they will do just that: escape to the safety of America.

    Again, if these are prominent people (at least some of them) who escape, their testimonies might be quite damaging. The need for silencing these escaped people may still be a priority. Hence the nations of the world gathering for battle in America. But again, the Lord has prepared for that, because the Josephite will be a miracle-working seer that will use the power of God to deliver these people from the world’s combined forces.

    There is also the redaction of the book of the Lamb of God, done by the GAC, which also makes sense. If you have a global religion, a great church that holds all the churches and religions of the world in it, both Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus and everything else, and each of these religions have their own set of religious writings or scriptures, there must be a set of “great church” scriptures, for general use by everybody, something that all can agree to. The GAC, then, kills two birds with one stone by taking the book of the Lamb of God and editing it, taking out the plain and precious parts of the gospel and the Lord’s covenants, and leaving a book that essentially makes the GAC look like the one true church. This will both serve to further unite the various churches and religions that make up the GAC, and also to subvert the testimony of the escaped Gentile saint. The GAC can then accuse the saints of “adding to” the divine book.

    Finally, when Nephi sees that the there are only two churches and that the GAC is everywhere, but the church of the Lamb is also everywhere, and then he sees that the power of God descends upon the saints and covenant people, and they are armed with the power of God, this can only mean that these saints now will be manifesting a work of miracles, but unlike the Josephite, who will be residing and working miracles only in America, these saints will be working miracles absolutely everywhere, all over the earth. It will be like having the Josephite everywhere (except that his miracles will be orders of magnitude more powerful). This will pose another huge problem for the GAC. So, their decision to kill all the saints (before the power of God descends upon the scattered saints), everywhere, is completely understandable. The work of miracles must be stopped even before it begins, in their view, for miracles will serve to convince people of the truth and the GAC will lose converts (and money).

    Nephi’s prophecy in 2 Ne. 26:15 to 2 Ne. 30:3

    This prophecy is speaking of the time when the Lord will bring forth new records that will convince everybody that the records of the prophets and apostles are true:

    2 Ne. 26:15After my seed and the seed of my brethren shall have dwindled in unbelief, and shall have been smitten by the Gentiles; yea, after the Lord God shall have camped against them round about, and shall have laid siege against them with a mount, and raised forts against them; and after they shall have been brought down low in the dust, even that they are not, yet the words of the righteous shall be written, and the prayers of the faithful shall be heard, and all those who have dwindled in unbelief shall not be forgotten.

    2 Ne. 30:3And now, I would prophesy somewhat more concerning the Jews and the Gentiles. For after the book of which I have spoken shall come forth, and be written unto the Gentiles, and sealed up again unto the Lord, there shall be many which shall believe the words which are written; and they shall carry them forth unto the remnant of our seed.

    Now, the time of that prophecy is like the 14th item that happens on Nephi’s visionary timeline (found in 1 Ne. 13 to 1 Ne. 14) In other words, it doesn’t happen at the first, but more towards the end. Here’s a quick list of numbered, prophetic points in that vision:

    1) The Jew (John) appears, prophesies and ministers to Gentiles, brings forth the book of the Lamb of God, and converts many Gentiles into saints of God; The Josephite (Joseph-Nephi) appears among American Gentiles, creates a mighty nation of freedom upon the land of promise (America) and performs a work of outrageously powerful miracles

    2) In response to the ministry of the Jew and the Josephite, a great and abominable church (GAC) is formed among the foreign nations of the Gentiles

    3) Gentile converts of John are tortured, killed and imprisoned by the GAC for heresy and also for the praise of the world

    4) A man among the Gentiles is wrought upon by the Spirit of God, travels to America and goes to the remnant

    5) Captive Gentiles are wrought upon by Spirit of the Lord and go forth to the mighty nation in America

    6) Many multitudes of Gentiles found in America

    7) Remnant hardens their hearts and stiffens their necks against Christ; (this is why item 8 happens)

    8) Scattering and smiting of the remnant by Gentiles

    9) Spirit of the Lord is upon Gentiles and they prosper and inherit the land of promise

    10) Former captive (now freed) Gentiles humble themselves before Lord and power of the Lord is with them (miracles)

    11) Mother Gentiles of former captive Gentiles gather on land and sea to battle former captive Gentiles, but the Josephite delivers them out of the hands of all other nations using the miraculous power of God

    12) The GAC edits the book of the Lamb of God, removing many plain and precious parts of the gospel and many covenants of the Lord from it, and sends the edited version to every Gentile nation, including to America

    13) The GAC edited version of the book of the Lamb of God blinds the eyes and hardens the hearts of men, causing an exceedingly great many Gentiles to stumble, giving Satan great power over them

    14) The book of the Lamb of God goes to the remnant; other records also go to the remnant and Gentiles, which convince everyone of Christ and establish the truth of the first records

    So, as can be seen from this timeline, Nephi’s 2 Ne. 26-30 prophecy takes place well after a bunch of things happen. Yet, we latter-day saints routinely quote from these chapters as if all this stuff has already occurred.

    One more thing about the GAC

    The GAC is the main antagonist to the Lord and His church in end time prophecy, and its formation happens right at the very start of these prophecies. It is also important to note that the GAC never goes away for the duration of end time prophecy. It stays intact to the very end, only being destroyed by the brightness of the Lord’s Second Coming. While it exists, it represents a clear and ever-present danger to the Lord’s saints and covenant people and is constantly plotting and working to destroy them spiritually and temporally. If you say that such-and-such an organization was the GAC, but it doesn’t exist anymore, then that wasn’t the GAC.

    The prophecies give specific descriptions of this church and what its actions are, so it will be quite easy to identify it. Heck, the scriptures even give its very name: Mystery Babylon! No one need to be uncertain about its existence. We will all know when it forms. But, another sign is the appearance of the Josephite. Once he shows up fully empowered, expect all heaven (in the form of the holy arm of the Lord) and all hell (in the form of the GAC) to break loose. Until he announces his presence on the scene, though, there won’t be any GAC formed.

  2. Since I mentioned in the post that one of the angels John saw (the one with the seal of the everlasting God) appears to me now to be Joseph-Nephi (whose angelic name I think may be Gazelem), I suppose I will also mention that we know of the names of two other angels John saw: Michael (whose name in mortality was Adam) and Moroni (whose angelic name we don’t know.)

    Michael is the seventh angel and the one that will stand upon the sea and earth in Revelation chapter 10, and Moroni is the fifth angel and the one mentioned in Revelation 14:6-7. We don’t know which angels Gabriel (Noah) and Raphael are in the vision, nor do we know the names of the other angelic participants.

    I find it funny that we only know a part of the names of these angels, both of their angelic names and their mortal names. It’s all so patchy. I fully expect that we will get the full vision written out before the events unfold before our eyes, with all the angelic and mortal names of the participants, including the words of the thunders that sounded, as recorded in Revelation 10, which John was forbidden to write.

    Also, one other thing: the revelation of the seals, by Jesus loosing them from the book, will be to the saints, according to my understanding. Later on, though, the seven angels will reveal the same seal revelations to the world at large, as written in the book of Doctrine and Covenants. So, the saints get first dibs on the information.

  3. hi
    sorry for so many questions 😉 but would u b so kind and let me know how long the josephite restorers ministry is supposed to last for? is he the one mighty and strong? are there any signs to look for with regards to when his ministry would begin? thanx

  4. My understanding is that the Josephite will be here from now until Christ comes, and of course, beyond that, far into the Millennium. He will be preparing the earth for the Millennium, by restoring all things. (There will be others, of course, that participate in these events, as well.) See the post Thoughts on the One Mighty and Strong for more info on that. The scripture says, “out of weakness he will be made strong.” So, when he is taken out of his weakness and made strong, my understanding is that he will immediately begin to work miracles, each and every day, both miracles of blessing and miracles of cursing (upon his enemies).

    This guy will be different than other miracle workers, according to my understanding. He will be a miracle worker’s miracle worker, even the type of man a miracle worker of perfect faith goes to when they can’t work a miracle. So, there have been miracle workers before on the earth, but they worked miracles from time to time. This man will be working pretty much exclusively by miracles. He won’t be preparing his food like all the rest of us, but simply making it appear, already made. He won’t be drinking wine, but pouring water into a glass and turning it into wine. Everything he does, then, will be impossible to do, but he will do it anyway. This is to be a demonstration of power unheard of since the beginning of time. All prophets, seers, healers and miracle workers that preceded him will look to him as the epidome of all their gifts, yet even that won’t be the extent of it. He will go beyond the epidome (the limit), which is impossible, of course, to do; therefore, because it’s impossible to be more than the epitome, he will surpass even that.

    As a result of this man’s impossibly great and strong faith, and the flood of miracles that proceed from him from the get-go, from the moment the heavens open to him, I expect there to be a media storm surrounding him and these works. We will hear of his deeds almost from the start, on the news outlets, magazines, newspapers, television, radio, Internet and word of mouth. We will hear of both miracles of blessing (healings and so forth), miracles of cursing (calamities coming upon his enemies) and all types of miracles of power. He will also be rapidly changing conditions among men via miracles and there will be nothing anyone will be able to do to stop him. In this information age, word will travel quite fast, so we will hear about government authorities baffled over people who are in some dire straits due to the “power of God” cursing them. This will sound completely bizarre, but the media will be forced to report it as is, because the authorities won’t be able to help these “cursed” people. We’ll hear about healings, not just one or two, but whole hospitals being emptied after some man enters and starts healing. We’ll hear about “incurables” being cured, and the blind having their sight restored and the maimed having their limbs restored, etc. We’ll hear of the dead being brought back to life. We’ll hear about him traveling in a manner that is impossible to do, communicating by miracles, etc. This man won’t be using technology to do things, he’ll be using his fully empowered gifts. We’ll hear of him here, there and all sorts of places and will wonder, “How does this man get around?” as there won’t be any travel record of any kind. He’ll be untraceable, yet he will leave a trail of miracles behind him wherever he goes.

    But none of that is the “sign” of his appearance. The CA earthquake event, I suppose, will be the public sign that he’s now on the scene, but we can also expect a non-miraculous announcement given by him. In other words, once empowered, he’s technically “safe” from harm from his enemies, therefore there will be no more need for hiding. So, I expect he will simply make a public announcement that he is the Josephite restorer, that he’s now on the scene fully empowered and that he will now be performing his ministry. And then will proceed the never-ending stream of mighty miracles from him. As for the CA quake event, I also expect that he will announce that it will occur, before it happens, so that people are left without any excuse in believing that it will be a miraculous event. And so on. The media will be all over this guy. He will be in the news all day long, each and every day, as the reports of his miracles continues endlessly.

    So, my point is this: this will not be a hidden thing that gradually comes out, but a grand and glorious event, in which, once he’s empowered, he will be off and running full speed, and we will very soon learn of it and then we will be quite informed, continually, by the media, as to each and every thing this man does and says. There won’t be any cause to guess or wonder about it. The media will report, “A man calling himself Joseph-Nephi allegedly performed [this and that] miracle and there are dozens of people here who testify to the truth of this.” And so on. Once the CA earthquake event is predicted by Joseph-Nephi, and it comes to pass exactly as he says it will, there will be no more room for doubt, for those who doubted the flood of witnesses to his other miracles.

  5. The gathering and scattering of the remnant

    1 Ne. 12And I looked and beheld a man among the Gentiles, who was separated from the seed of my brethren by the many waters; and I beheld the Spirit of God, that it came down and wrought upon the man; and he went forth upon the many waters, even unto the seed of my brethren, who were in the promised land. 13And it came to pass that I beheld the Spirit of God, that it wrought upon other Gentiles; and they went forth out of captivity, upon the many waters. 14And it came to pass that I beheld many multitudes of the Gentiles upon the land of promise; and I beheld the wrath of God, that it was upon the seed of my brethren; and they were scattered before the Gentiles and were smitten.

    This man that travels to the remnant in the land of promise, and then afterward the remnant is scattered, makes me think that the remnant are actually gathered at that point. I read this and I think, “He didn’t go to each of the many Indian reservations, but to a central location where all the tribes were gathered.” Interestingly enough, the NAC has a provision concerning the Indians being gathered to the former lands. It would not surprise me if after the NAC is passed, the earliest treaty congress can find is one that provides for all the Indian tribes to be rounded up and put in a central location, in, say, Missouri. And it wouldn’t surprise me if, after these tribes are gathered to the central location, and this inspired man comes to them and says to them, “Submit to the Gentiles and the Lord will bless you,” or something like that, and they decide that now that they are gathered and are close to the capital city of America (Liberty, Missouri), that they will rebel against the Americans and take over the capital city, or some such nonsense, which incites the Americans against them, causing them to be scattered and smitten after their gathering.

    More on the GAC

    The Great and Abominable Church is called the Mystery, Babylon the Great, The Mother of Abominations, The Mother of Harlots, The Whore of all the Earth, etc.

    1 Ne. 13:6And it came to pass that I beheld this great and abominable church; and I saw the devil that he was the founder of it. 7And I also saw gold, and silver, and silks, and scarlets, and fine-twined linen, and all manner of precious clothing; and I saw many harlots. 8And the angel spake unto me, saying:

    Behold the gold, and the silver, and the silks, and the scarlets, and the fine-twined linen, and the precious clothing, and the harlots, are the desires of this great and abominable church.

    This church, then, will be associated with harlots (prostitutes.) In other words, this will be the church of the harlots (prostitutes) and also the church of those who commit abominations. When it is formed, all those who commit abominations (child sacrifice, pedophilia, homosexual behavior, etc.) and all the whores and prostitutes will join it, for they will be welcomed in it. This will truly be the Great Church of Babylon, welcoming all forms of wickedness into it, a true “big tent” church. It’s headquarters will eventually be in the ancient city of Babylon, built up again to glory, hence the city being called like the church, Babylon the Great. Attempts to say that the GAC is this or that in this time fall flat, because there is no church or even organization that is associated with harlots. But when the GAC is formed, all harlots will belong to it. When asked, “Which church do you attend?” the harlots will reply, “Why the Great Church, of course! She is the church mother of harlots and the great whore of all the earth, after all.” These names will be embraced by the church. They will not be terms of derision. This is to be a total perversion of righteousness.

    Again, it must be understood that the GAC will be founded by the devil. Not symbolically, but literally. People today will point to the church of Satan and say, “Well, that’s the church of Satan and it exists today. Is that the GAC?” No, it’s not. First of all, the Church of Satan is a small church, really insignificant, whereas the GAC will be a global church, a Great Church. Secondly, no one knows whether that church of Satan was ever founded by the devil. Maybe, maybe not. It may have been just a man-made church trying to worship Satan. But the GAC will be the real devil’s church, and he will really be its founder. It will not be man-made, but revealed by the devil, just as the church of God was revealed by the word of God. So, it will be a counterfeit body, with revelations of the devil, etc. None of this is symbolism, but literal.

    As a result, the appearance of the GAC will be unmistakable. The great Mystery church will have many names, but they will all be names that exactly conform to the revealed word of God, and this so that we are left without excuse, so that there is no room for error or doubt. If we join that church, we will do it in full cognizance that it is the devil’s church.

  6. Shrine prostitutes

    The GAC is called the whore of all the earth and the mother of harlots and the mother of abominations, not only because the harlots and those who commit abominations will belong to this great church, but also because it will re-introduce the ancient practice of shrine prostitution. Also, shrine child sacrifice, pedophilia, sodomy, bestiality, and all other abominations. When the scriptures say that the kings of the earth have committed “fornication” with the whore of all the earth, this is both symbolic and literal. They literally will commit fornication by their use of the church shrine prostitutes. Thus, this is not just a symbol of kings having allegiances with the GAC. Likewise, the drinking of blood is both symbolic and literal. These nations and kings and kingdoms (and the rest of the church) will consent to the killing of saints and innocents, and thus symbolically “drink of their blood,” but also there will be a restoration of the ancient practice of drinking of the blood of your enemies, like Amalickiah wanted to do of Moroni’s blood. So, the use of words in these prophecies and visions is to give both symbolic and literal meaning. Nothing there is a pure symbol with no literal thing attached.

    Nephi’s use of “church” defined by Nephi

    The use of “churches” lumped together by Nephi cannot be two dissimilar things. They must both be literal churches or both be symbolic churches. No prophet (or anybody else) would lump a pure symbol and a literal thing together. So, after lumping both the GAC and the Church of the Lamb together, calling them “churches,” Nephi proceeds to talk about each one, calling each a “church.” But notice that two sentences later, Nephi defines the Church of the Lamb of God, showing that this church is a literal church, even this definition of church from the 1828 Dictionary:

    3. A particular number of christens, united under one form of ecclesiastical government, in one creed, and using the same ritual and ceremonies; as the English church; the Gallican church; the Presbyterian church; the Romish church; the Greek church.

    So, that is what the GAC is, a body of believers, “united under one form of ecclesiastical government, in one creed, and using the same ritual and ceremonies.” Now, look at what Nephi wrote:

    1 Ne. 14:10And he said unto me:

    Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.

    11And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people. 12And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon all the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.

    The standard interpretation of the latter-day saints, that the GAC is not a literal church but a symbolic one consisting of every organization under the Sun that serves in some manner to oppose the works of God, cannot be the correct interpretation because it uses an arbitrary rule. The lumping of “churches” together by Nephi makes it clear that these two things are of the same type, either two literal churches or two symbolic churches. If a symbol is used for the GAC, then a symbol must also be used for the church of the Lamb of God, making the church of the Lamb every organization under the Sun that serves in some manner to further the works of God (which is quite ridiculous, but this is how the interpretation must be applied.) But given that Nephi defines the church of the Lamb two sentences later, we can clearly see that his use of the word church (or Joseph Smith’s use of the word “church” in his translation) is a plain rendering, giving a plain meaning, and not a symbolic one. So the LDS have no excuse on this point. The text is quite plainly written.

  7. The Christians believe that the root of Jesse is Christ, because of the Book of Revelations, but Joseph Smith gave, by revelation, the following:

    D&C 113:1Who is the Stem of Jesse spoken of in the 1st, 2d, 3d, 4th, and 5th verses of the 11th chapter of Isaiah?

    2Verily thus saith the Lord: It is Christ.

    3What is the rod spoken of in the first verse of the 11th chapter of Isaiah, that should come of the Stem of Jesse?

    4Behold, thus saith the Lord: It is a servant in the hands of Christ, who is partly a descendant of Jesse as well as of Ephraim, or of the house of Joseph, on whom there is laid much power.

    5What is the root of Jesse spoken of in the 10th verse of the 11th chapter?

    6Behold, thus saith the Lord, it is a descendant of Jesse, as well as of Joseph, unto whom rightly belongs the priesthood, and the keys of the kingdom, for an ensign, and for the gathering of my people in the last days.

    So, the Stem of Jesse is Christ and as He had already been on the scene and was known, the Lord simply says, “It is Christ.” There is no attempt to hide who this is. But the Rod and the Root were future to Joseph, and thus these names are not given, for they were not yet on the scene and were unknown to Joseph and others. I believe that the Rod is Joseph-Nephi, because this man will be noted by “much power.” These are the words of Jesus, from Jesus’ perspective, so if this man has “much” power, then it must be, indeed, a lot of power. So, the Rod will have the spirit of power, which is why he is called the Rod, as in the “rod of power.” In other words, this is a designation to describe an aspect of his ministry. The Root, on the other hand, is noted as one that gathers the Lord’s people, raises a banner (flag), holds priesthood by right, etc. I wasn’t sure before whether this Root was the same as the Rod, thinking perhaps these were two men, but also thinking they sound like the same person to me. But now these descriptions seem to me to be of the same man, just of different aspects of his ministry.

    My understanding of the Root in that verse of Isaiah, where his “rest shall be glorious,” is not that it is speaking of only his eternal rest, but also of his earthly rest. In other words, the understanding I now have is that Joseph-Nephi will stand out for more than one reason: even his house is going to be different and remarkable (glorious).

  8. The four angels

    In the Revelation of John, he mentions “four angels standing on the four corners of the earth,” and also “another angel ascending from the east.” In the post above I gave it as my understanding that the angel from the east is the Josephite. Now my mind wonders about the four angels. I find it curious that there are exactly four translated men among the two quorums of twelve the Savior called. There is John the Beloved, who was the only translated apostle of the Jewish twelve, and there are three Nephite disciples who were translated among the quorum of twelve in America. That makes four who were translated, and curiously, all four are referred to in the scriptures as being “like angels.” The Josephite, also, will be a translated man, according to my understanding, so he, too, will be like an angel.

    Anyway, I thought this thought was interesting enough to record somewhere.

    Malachi 3:1 and the messenger who prepares the way

    As I’m here, I might as well record another thought. If you look at the Quotations from the Old Testament in the New Testament, you notice that three passages of scriptures are cited as supposedly quoting Malachi 3:1. The three quotes are:

    For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. (Matt. 11:10)

    As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. (Mark 1:2)

    This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. (Luke 7:27)

    But these are not the same words as is found in Malachi 3:1.

    Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts. (Mal. 3:1)

    I’m wondering if these quotations found in the gospels are referring to some other prophet and not to Malachi and his prophecy. My current understanding is that the Malachi prophecy of the messenger sent to prepare the way had no reference to John the Baptist, but to Joseph-Nephi. So, the difference in wording may reflect an altogether different prophecy, of a prophet whose writings we currently do not have.

  9. hi, would you be willing to consider the following-
    1st- “Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not he that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon”Isaiah 51:9
    Speaking of Archangels JS said-“These men are in heaven, but their children are on the earth. Their bowels yearn over us. God sends down men for this reason. ‘And the Son of Man shall send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that give offense and them that do iniquity.’ [Matthew 13:41.] All these authoritative characters will come down and join hand in hand in bringing about this work…The Kingdom of Heaven is like a grain of mustard seed. The mustard seed is small, but brings forth a large tree, and the fowls lodge in the branches. [mark4:30see also Isaiah 11:1] The fowls are the angels. Thus angels come down, combine together to gather their children, and gather them. We cannot be made perfect without them, nor they without us; when these things are done, the Son of Man will descend, the Ancient of Days sit; we may come to an innumerable company of angels, have communion with and receive instructions from them.”(History of the Church, 3:388–89)

    OMS-ANCIENT OF DAYS-MICHAEL-ROD(-the scepter of Power at AOAas in D&C 85:7,Psalm 110:2)

    2nd-ROOT- JOHN the Beloved-“What is the root of Jesse spoken of in the 10th verse of the 11th chapter?”
    “Behold, thus saith the Lord, it is a descendant of Jesse(Joseph Smith was pure EPHRAIMITE), as well as of Joseph, unto whom rightly belongs the priesthood, and the keys of the kingdom, for an ensign, and for the gathering of my people in the last days.” (Doctrine and Covenants 113:5-6)
    Who was the servant that would ’tarry’ and ‘prophesy again about many peoples, nations, languages and kings’(rev 10:11)-JOHN Revelator. What Keys did he hold as a member of the original 12?Same as Peter(MATT 16:19)

    3rd-Since we have two Archangels covered then there’s 5 left.ALL OF THEM WILL COME DOWN in the flesh. That would also include Phenuel-I will quote J.Pratt-…”The third church, at Pergamos, is told that “To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it” (Rev. 2:17). The white stone is associated with being a seer (seer stone) and Joseph Smith was the one of the seven most identified as a seer (2 Nephi 3:6). The seer and stone could also be associated with Peter and the celestial kingdom (D&C 130:11), but Peter fits the first reward best. Thus, this saying seems like an excellent way to identify the fifth angel, Phanuel (Joseph Smith).” I personally don’t agree how he describes other archangels(or the order he puts them in), i feel that he purposely belittles Michael as we know his Ancestor was way against ADAM-G theory. However, for the purpose of this discussion i feel it suffices to say that JOSEPH SMITH is one of the Archangels and is therefore expected to come down in the flesh in these latter days to join hand in hand together with the others in order to stretch the arm of the LORD one last time in these latter days.

    So…Could it be that through study and personal revelation(which is clearly visible throughout your blog that you must be receiving) you have described Joseph Smith-Archangel-returned as a Joseph-Nephi-Lehi?
    What’s your thoughts?
    ps.I hope you don’t feel i’m hijacking your thread. I am only very interested about your opinion since I have found your blog very interesting and enlightening. Thank you

  10. ps. in addition “All the powers of the priesthood are in the church except the principle and power of translation. That, however, will in due time be restored.” John Taylor (J.D 23:32)…only John hold these Keys- he Has to be the servant called ROOT

  11. Could it be that…you have described Joseph Smith-Archangel-returned as a Joseph-Nephi-Lehi? What’s your thoughts?

    No, that is not my understanding. As you said, Joseph Smith was a pure Ephraimite. Both the Rod and the Root mentioned in Isa. 11, verses 1 and 10, are revealed to be descendants of both Jesse and the house of Joseph (Ephraim.) This excludes both John the Beloved (who was a Jew, meaning of Judah, and not Joseph) and Joseph Smith (who was of Ephraim, and not Jesse) and also Adam or Michael (who was not, at all, of the house of Israel, as the house of Israel didn’t even exist yet during his time.) So, the Rod and Root spoken of by Joseph Smith in D&C 113 are referring to Nephites, because the Nephite heritage was composed of three lineages: Ephraim (through Ishmael), Manasseh (through Lehi) and Jesse (through Mulek, who was a direct descendant of Jesse.) The Rod and the Root, then, can be considered as two Nephites who will appear, or as the same Nephite. It is my understanding that it is the same individual who is spoken of as the Root and the Rod, not two people, and it is this man who will call himself Joseph-Nephi when he is taken out of his weakness and made strong by his faith.

  12. My understanding is that when this man Joseph-Nephi is empowered by his faith, that we can expect him to be ministered to by angels and translated beings just as Joseph Smith was, or any other ancient prophet. Nephi of 3 Nephi was said to have had angels minister to him daily. Joseph-Nephi, being far stronger and greater in faith than Nephi, can be expected to have at least the same happen to him, and I suppose even more than that. (How can you surpass that? Who knows? Perhaps they’ll minister to him hourly. This guy will be miracles incarnate, so the point is that he’s going to blow us all away.) So, if Joseph Smith saw God the Father and Jesus and many angels during his First Vision, we can expect that the First Vision of the fully empowered Josephite will be nothing less than that, and probably more than that. Instead of seeing many angels, perhaps he’ll see them all. Anyway, John and the Three Nephites and also Joseph Smith and possibly others will likely minister to him, giving keys and powers and so forth. So, the Josephite can still be the Root and the one who restores translation (for he will end up a translated being), but like Joseph Smith, his restoration will consist of angels giving to him their keys and powers (including translation) and instructions, etc. There is no need to force the Jewish John into this prophecy of the Root. The Josephite fits just fine.

  13. ok thank you, appreciate you fast response x

  14. sorry just one more thing lol
    Regarding the twelve disciples(including JOHN). All were Galileans except one who was a Jew – Judas. When Peter denied the Lord in Matt 26:73 they knew he was one of them because his speech betrayed that he was a Galilean. Judas’ last name was Iscariot which means a man from Kerioth in the territory of Judah. So you do not know the exact tribes the 12 come from, but you can find out Judas was from Judah, the other 11 were from Israel. Granted most Galileans were of Benjamin but Im just making a point that Calling JOHN jewish(of JUDAH i presume you meant) is not so straight forward. Jesus was Judah but he was born on their territory in Bethlehem. If Zebedee JOHNs father lived around Bethsaida due to his fishermans prospering job. He might have been of any tribe. Salome his wife,again, for what we know might have been a pretty girl from Jerusalem of the tribe of Judah(thru Jesse) that went with a rich fisherman or berhaps simple ephrimite girl from Galilee lol the point Im making here is that is as likely for John to be of mixed lineage as any of us…and having said that, if he was of correct lineage (and as shown itss at leat likely) he would claim seniority over 3 Nephites and any of the future servants. whats your thoughts? x

  15. Lol. Okay, yes, it is possible that John is of mixed lineage. I will concede your point. My understanding, though, is that John is the “fruit of the loins of Judah” spoken of in 2 Ne. 3:12, and also the Jew spoken of by Nephi that brings forth the Book of the Lamb of God, so I refer to him as both a Jew and as of the tribe of Judah, but I don’t, in fact, know if there are other tribes in his lineage. Maybe, maybe not. So, it’s a guess to say he’s the one. But the Josephite lineage I do know, according to my understanding, is of mixed lineage, and of those specific lineages mentioned by Joseph Smith in D&C 113, so all of that points to him. But even if John is of the two lineages spoken of in D&C 113, it is still my understanding that the Rod and the Root are one and the same man: Joseph-Nephi.

    Concerning the seniority of John over the Three Nephites, yes, he’s above them, for sure. But he’s not above the Josephite, because of his (John’s) translated state. In other words, although Joseph-Nephi will become translated at some point, this is still considered to be his mortal ministry, and so he will be the one in charge, not the angels who will be helping him. The angels function solely as helpers, not as the point men on the field. He is the point man. This is why John says in his Book of Revelation that the angel of the east tells the other four angels to not hurt anyone until the people are sealed. They take their orders from him, not vice-versa. John, although an apostle, and the Three Nephites, although disciples, have already lived out their mortal probation and now function as angels, so they can’t assert their authority over him. In fact, even the 12 apostles and First Presidency, as currently organized, are more authorized than John and the 3 Nephites. They hold the keys, thus, the angels must submit to those keys.

    Heck, even Joseph-Nephi must submit to those keys. So, it will be interesting to see what happens between the Josephite and the 1st Prez and 12 apostles, for there will be two sources of authority: church and priesthood authority given to them (derived from angels) and authority given to Joseph-Nephi (directly from angels.) I suppose that we will get a repeat scenario of Moses and the elders of Israel, with signs shown to them, and I suppose that they will then confer all their keys upon him, so that he now has everything he needs to finish the restoration. But even after all that, the 1st Prez and 12 don’t take second stage to him. They will still be in charge of the church, as I understand it. Just because he gets all the keys, doesn’t mean he assumes control of the church. As long as the 1st Prez and 12 are intact, they will still be the ones in charge.

  16. ok, lovely, thanks for another quick clarification. I hope i didnt come across as rude and trying to force my point of view upon you. Its just ROOT/ROD/SERVANT is my favourite Gospel subject if one could say so. You surely do make good points!!! Ill leave you in peace for now,…until you write something new and exciting again lol thanx

  17. Its just ROOT/ROD/SERVANT is my favourite Gospel subject if one could say so.

    It is funny because it seems a lot of people are hooked on this subject once they get started exploring it. I never gave it a moment’s thought until, I think, about the end of January 2014, when I received a bizarre manifestation about the Josephite towards the end of an extended fast (about 30 days.) I still have not released on this blog much of the information I know about this subject, though I have told a couple people in private a great many additional details. (I happen to think the element of surprise is a good thing, so I’m going to keep my mouth shut for rest of the info.)

  18. 30 days?!?! u must be bonkers 😉 and this”I’m going to keep my mouth shut for rest of the info” is simply selfish lol RESPECT nontheless xxx

  19. LDSA, you said in a comment here that the root of Jesse is not Christ but the Josephite

    The Christians believe that the root of Jesse is Christ, because of the Book of Revelations, but Joseph Smith gave, by revelation, the following …

    5 What is the root of Jesse spoken of in the 10th verse of the 11th chapter?
    6 Behold, thus saith the Lord, it is a descendant of Jesse, as well as of Joseph, unto whom rightly belongs the priesthood, and the keys of the kingdom, for an ensign, and for the gathering of my people in the last days.

    OK, but how about Paul quoting this very prophecy of Isaiah and suggesting that the root of Jesse is Christ?

    8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
    9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.
    10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.
    11 And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.
    12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.
    (Romans 15:8–12)

    Can you provide an explanation of how the root of Jesse mentioned by Paul could be anything but Christ?

  20. jackdale76,

    OK, but how about Paul quoting this very prophecy of Isaiah and suggesting that the root of Jesse is Christ?

    Paul wasn’t suggesting that the root of Jesse was Christ. He was emphasizing that the Gentiles were to be included in the gospel preaching.

    Can you provide an explanation of how the root of Jesse mentioned by Paul could be anything but Christ?

    Just using Joseph Smith’s revelation, we see that it cannot be Christ, because the root of Jesse would be partly of Judah and partly of Joseph. But Jesus was not of Joseph. He was only of Judah, so it cannot be Jesus.

    And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

    It also cannot be Jesus because the root will stand as an ensign and to him shall the Gentiles seek. When Jesus stood upon His footstool (planet Earth), He didn’t stand as an ensign to the Gentiles, but went only to the house of Israel. The gospel was sent to the Gentiles by Peter, after the Savior was resurrected and ascended into heaven. It cannot be Jesus at a future date, either, because when Jesus comes back the gospel will have already gone to the Gentiles and then to Israel. So, these events must happen before Jesus comes back, not when He comes back. So, the root of Jesse must be an emissary of Christ, a forerunner, not the Messiah Himself.


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