What does it mean to be inactive?

The word ‘inactive’ can be used to mean dormant. When someone or something is sleeping we say they are inactive because we do not detect much activity on their part. In more scientific terms, ‘inactive’ can mean inert. In these cases it is often used to talk about dead matter with no inherent power of motion. Inactive can also mean lazy or slothful. In LDS jargon, being inactive means that you are not attending church at all or your attendance is very sporadic.

In order to understand inactivity it is useful to analyze its opposite. Opposites are merely special relationships; so special that we can really only come to understand one side by understanding the other.

Church Activity

Active LDS regularly attend a minimum of 1-3 hours of church meetings a week. The vast majority are involved in far more activities beyond the minimal Sunday services.

Active LDS:
1. Attend various meetings throughout the week.
2. Are assigned monthly visitations among the membership.
3. Plan and execute cultural and community activities on an ongoing basis.
4. Perform certain rituals in temples which serve as dedicated space for these ceremonies.

Sounds pretty active, indeed LDS are generally very busy people. Not all are necessarily physically active in the sense of getting plenty of exercise, but they keep themselves busy. So what are the specifics of their activity? What exactly do they do? It may be useful to employ a recent trend in social commentary to dissect this subject.


Active LDS think they show devotion to God by attending a myriad of meetings.

In these meetings one can expect to find pretty much what you would find at any meeting in modern society. That is, lectures, books, notes, reports, a few people talking, a lot of folks listening and some sleeping while many more are daydreaming, thinking about being somewhere other than where they are in that moment.

The active LDS think they are loving their neighbor when they make assigned monthly visits (or phone calls if busy schedules do not permit an in-person visit) to other LDS people in their vicinity.

What actually happens is that two adult men or two adult women will drop by a particular residence to engage in a bit of ‘friendly banter’, after which the visitors read a message dictated from the Saltican City and end with a short prayer. At any point in this visit the assigned Home Teachers or Visiting Teachers, as they are called, will insert a key question. This question may be worded in any number of ways but what is always inferred is “Is there anything you need?” or “Is there anything we can do for you?” The customary response is “Oh no, nothing I can think of right now, but thank you.”

In familiar scenes such as this the action of the active LDS is revealed to be mere acting, in the sense of Hollywood actors. This is the sad truth behind such action because, as Justin has written in The Written Records post

“ethics only teach us how to live as though you were one with your neighbor. You learn the modes of ACTION that imply a compassionate relationship with another person. It offers you incentive to ACT in a certain way – but it cannot generate the genuine feeling of it.”

Active LDS think that they serve people through their constant cultural and community events.

In reality LDS people serve the interests of corporations. Whether it be a cultural activity as small as a Singles Ward dance or a local Christmas Pageant, or a huge community effort like Mormon Helping Hands preparing the giant metropolis of Rio De Janeiro for the Olympics or a Historic Vaccine Rollout in Africa. It all serves to reinforce Babylonian deathstyles masquerading as righteous lifestyles.

Corporation is a word that comes from the Latin word for body. The corporations that are served by the LDS people are only the vehicles through which Satan, or the conglomerate of souls who followed Lucifer and denied themselves the opportunity to inhabit tabernacles of flesh , work to force the ways of the World onto the Earth. Corporations according to today’s laws are granted more rights than humans and this was done so that the angels to a devil who take these legal fictions on as their personas can feel themselves superior to man even though they know that cooperation between spirit and matter will always remain the highest ideal in the universe. Incorporation is the act or process of combining of substances; absorption of light or moisture. This should be noteworthy to believers who seek to better understand how a spirit, can either possess or become one with a temporal body –the former being an action of evil spirits and the latter the glorious work of good spirits. In more recent times ‘incorporation’ has been used to mean: The act of uniting several persons into one fiction called a corporation. In 1885, Ambrose Bierce said:

“A, B and C are a corporation. A robs, B steals and C (it is necessary that there be one gentleman in the concern) cheats. It is a plundering, thieving, swindling corporation. But A, B and C, who have jointly determined and severally executed every crime of the corporation, are blameless.”

In this way the definition of a corporation matches that of a Secret Combination as we read in the Book of Mormon.

Condemning the righteous because of their righteousness; letting the guilty and the wicked go unpunished because of their money; and moreover to be held in office at the head of government, to rule and do according to their wills, that they might get gain and glory of the world, and, moreover, that they might the more easily commit adultery, and steal, and kill, and do according to their own wills—(Hel 7:5)

Active LDS think they are doing the Lord’s Work when they perform rituals in their temples.

These actions in the modern day church have not received the Lord’s seal of approval and are in fact meaningless in many cases. Of course the rituals can be effective on a case by case basis. But alas the Holy Places have become corrupted by the money changers who charge a 10 percent entrance fee in exchange for what they claim are “saving ordinances”. Some churchgoers who gain entrance to the Celestial Room in one of these LDS temples believe that they are then guaranteed entrance into the Celestial Kingdom of God. But even worse than the mind state of those who assume they have obtained some kind of golden ticket, is the awful state of the millions more who believe they have to “keep working at it.”

The first category is comprised of the blind who will end up being leaders within the ranks of the Church and World. The second category is made up of the blind followers who are led by the blind. Both are necessary components of Satan’s gory work. Jesus tells us that both will end up in the ditch. While willfully ignorant Mormons perform vicarious work for the dead they never once suppose that they are the dead. Their awful situation is reflected by Malcolm, the main character in M. Night Shyamalan’s The Sixth Sense. In their pride these individuals fail to see that they are performing dead works in a whited sepulcher. The active member is told that he/she has obtained the highest honor by simply being in the temple. And thus the Devil cheateth their souls. In this way the temples which have now been streamlined and dot the land, function as factories for the continuance of Secret Combinations. Their secretive dispensing of esoteric handshakes and whatnot lay the foundations for the murdering kind of bands that later form using the self same set of symbols. We know this to be the case because this scenario has already played out in every dispensation and is repeating once again. Man-made or should we say Mason-made temples are only stone structures after all. There is a stone that the builders always seem to refuse. As highfaluting symbols of the body, these temples are equally, nay, more susceptible to becoming training grounds for apprenticeship under the Fallen.

Hugh Nibley pointed out the ancient meaning of temples as universities and universities as temples. As a university professor he was thus a temple worker. He also pointed out to active LDS the dangerous route they were actively pursuing. Working hand in hand to bring about the awful state of affairs spoken of by Moroni, The Nazis and The Niceys, The future fools alongside the Gadianton Robbers of tomorrow don cap and gown and graduate. Neither group is fully aware of the fact that they collectively form that combination which is most secret of all, even hidden from its own members.

Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints who remain active as such, do so at a terrible risk. But then again so do Americans, Mexicans, Canadians and basically all people across the planet who consider themselves actively engaged in modern society. Inactivity, meaning infrequent or terminated church attendance, may very well be a part of the solution for you and your family right now, as it will most certainly be an eventual step for all humble followers of Christ in the eternal perspective, but it obviously is not THE answer. We are eternal spirit children of eternal Heavenly Parents, so ‘inactivity’ is never an option for eternal beings. It is rather a question of how and where our eternal flame of activity is directed. As we can see, activity in the church is not what it seems. Activity according to Saltican City is inactivity, slothfulness, trapped potential and misdirected energy according to the Spirit of Truth. What was once a lively body of saints is essentially being rapidly reduced to a Combination of pride and busy-work. The apostasy/atrophy is spreading and the Spirit is quickly vacating. We stand witness along with Moroni of old, to the death and decay. Know this. The LDS church will not recover. Know This, That Every Soul Is Free. Take the good, leave the bad and Press Forward Saints!


Jesus said plainly, “The Kingdom of Heaven is within you.” But that leaves us with a very good question. How in the Hell can we let the Heaven out? Well, questions and answers are opposites. As stated previously, opposites are special relationships; two things so close that they are intimately linked. And ironically we find that the best and truly the only way to learn about one half is to learn from or through the other. So let’s look at two principles which we will term ACTIVE & PASSIVE. There is a much more comprehensive list touching on both of these principles in LDSA’s Split Brain Model of the Gospel post. These correspond to your Left and Right brain so I would strongly suggest reading that entire post. Here I will only list a few key operations.

PASSIVE                        ACTIVE
Reading                          Writing
Listening                        Speaking
Exhaling                          Inhaling
Feeling                            Thinking
Mudra                             Mantra
Love                                Will

It may become increasingly difficult to mentally separate these two states, the more deeply one examines their relationship to each other. This is as it should be, all in one. But God does not want us to be confused so we must learn to combine and utilize both in unison. Our confusion comes only in comprehending these two as separate states. And our insistence that ‘never the twain shall meet’ cuts us off from God. Justin has written a post called “The Tree of This and That,” which is a must read for anyone who is serious in their devotion to God and wishes to overcome this division. If and whenever we find ourselves feeling far from our Heavenly Parents we have to locate some kind of starting point to go from cut off to connected. So we start by making that compartmentalized view which we hold into a positive teaching tool to reverse the effects of having eaten the forbidden fruit. If, as we say in Mormonism, we are to find our way home to God and return with honor, we must stop seeing the passive and active, internal and external aspects of ourselves as existing APART from each other and instead see them as A PART of each other. This looking at the mark is the only way for us to set ourselves apart from the waning world and make ourselves a part of God’s Eternal Work and Glory.

So to gain our bearing once having admitted and let go of our misguided ways, we should begin to see our turning away from the institutionalized church not as inactivity, but a glorious opportunity for inner activity. This would be a good saying to keep in mind and use when people come to try and question or pressure us into returning to the ways of the church-world. Tell them, “My inactivity is inner activity. Dispute not because you see not.” Proper understanding of the passive side of life, will come through breathing exercises, scripture study, meditation and prayer. And this understanding will bring personal revelation. No one can tell you exactly what to do. But when the Holy Spirit brings suggestions and solutions to your heart and mind, you must then apply them actively in your life. For that reason it was given. The inspiration will come as it is sought. IF PERSONAL REVELATION IS NOT SOUGHT OR NOT PUT INTO ACTION WHEN RECEIVED THEN DAMNATION AND DEATH WILL FOLLOW.

I know this is not what we like to hear, but it is true. There are really only two things in the universe. Those two things are things to act and things to be acted upon, energy and matter, father and mother. In this way life has been and will continue for ever more. Eternal life is happening right now. It is granted unto men to choose or reject it according to their wills.

Think about this. For the last 2000 or so years of the Piscean Dispensation humanity has been evolving with the Revelation expressed by the Christ that God is Love…for the next 2000 or so years of the incoming Aquarian Dispensation, humanity’s contribution to the plan will be to realize the next imminent Revelation by the Christ which is the Will aspect of God and this time Jesus will come in power and great glory. The Soul itself is pure electricity arising from the Father Spirit connecting with Mother Matter and all in creation, seen and unseen, exists because of this. We as souls are self conscious electricity and our energy follows thought. In the years approaching the Millennium we will see with more and more clarity that we are not the field of knowledge, nor the knowledge, but the Knower; that we are the Thinker (not the thought). Even Einstien’s great equation is the equation of Spirit in Matter. That is all there is to it. Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother want naturally to be together to cleave to one another. They are eternally sealed. If we will accept this simple fact we too may be sealed for time and all eternity with them as their offspring.

Love and will, can only be understood together. Aligning our will with His will does not mean doing something we don’t particularly want to do just because we think it is what God would like us to do. This is in fact the way of the Devil and should alert us to the truth about so much so called service performed vainly in Jesus’ name. Aligning our wills necessitates knowing. We will only come to know God’s will when we know our own will and this can not happen while following rules set by anyone else. Much of our experience within the church was backwards. So we simply need to flip it around to realize the great purpose of life. Life is to be given and shared in love. Life without love serves no purpose and love without life is nothing.

In Sunday School, Seminary or Gospel Doctrine we have all heard it taught that we have spirit bodies. But only now are some of us awakening to the fact that our eyes, ears, mouths and noses; as the primary song goes, are not without their spiritual counterparts. The five physical senses are only the tip of an iceberg of pre-seeding spiritual faculties. As members of the corporate church we wandered around thinking of ourselves as human beings trying to have ‘spiritual experiences’. But when we stop partaking of the Kool-Aid just long enough to start waking up, we REMEMBER THAT WE ARE SPIRITUAL BEINGS TRYING TO HAVE HUMAN EXPERIENCES. I realize that this is a popular and perhaps cliché phrase these days but think about the word ‘trying’ and how it implies that THIS LIFE IS what our spirits aspire to not some next life. Eternal life starts for you when you say it does. The eternal union, the mystic marriage of flesh and spirit is what it’s all about. There are many paths but they all lead to this. Many of them are much more exciting than Church Activity ever was or could be. This is an exciting time for you and your loved ones as paths that were formally forbidden open up you can feel the Spirit of Christ Triumphant, the tingling of the Holy Spirit. And if at this point you can not be sure whether that sensation is of God or of the Devil well then you have two options before you. Either press forward with faith in God or GO BACKwards TO the CHURCH Wards.


  1. I enjoyed your post and agree with you on many levels. I do however, believe that inactivity is not the answer to the problems the church faces. There is a very good work called “The Apostasy of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” which says much of what you said, however, goes on to give a more practical approach to how we should view the church of today. I am very active in the church and hold no positions nor aspire to them. I go to church in order to teach others what I know and counter the culture of complacency which has overtaken “the Holy Church of God”. This was prophesied by Mormon in Mormon 8:35-41. I hope to be among the few in verse 36, but to do so one must rid himself of pride. It takes courage to continue going to church in the face of so much ignorance and vanity, but the church still holds the keys to the priesthood, the temple still teaches the mysteries of the kingdom, the prophet still is the ONLY man on earth whom God has given all the keys and knowledge necessary for salvation. I do not blindly follow local leaders as some would have us do, and that sometimes causes problems, but Brigham Young once said that what scared him most about the church was that one day members would stop listening to the Holy Spirit and would follow leaders blindly.

  2. You have not ENjoyed the post or the principles described therein. ENjoyment is an internal change of heart. I am familiar with the work you reference. It does not offer a more practical approach. It offers justification for shrinking back into service of the devil and shirking the chance to truly glorify God.
    So you say you “hope” to be among the true saints or humble followers of Christ, “but” to do so requires one to rid himself of pride? What can Jesus say to that type of unconcious rhetoric except “Good luck with that.” Perceiving apostasy and yet persisting on the continuance of business as usual all while telling ourselves we are “teaching others” is the very definition of PRIDE. If insiders could preach repentance effectively from within then God would not have need of calling outsiders. I am bearing testimony of an important truth. I am not saying that you are guilty of this or that evil. I am saying that until we admit the evil of church activity, we will not know see our spiritual inactivity for what it is. I know that I would have never supposed that there was a level of spiritual activation that was impossible to obtain until kicking the habbit of church attendance. But now I do know. I thought and expressed the exact same ideas that you are voicing now. I believed in my PRIDE that especially due to the knowledge I had recieved, that because of the things which only a minority of us as LDS could see, that as a result of the dangerously high levels of apostasy, it was more crucial than ever (or so I CONvinced myself) that someone as special as I and those others of my brethren who were “in the know” stay “active” so that we might help the rest. This line of reasoning that I was followed before being drastically humbled is complete and utter BULL$#!+ and I say this with only the pure intent of awakening the truth that is within EACH AND EVERY ONE of us. Thomas S. Monson is not the ONLY one. He has not valued that which he was given, even though he told himself he did by playing it safe, and now it will be taken away even that measly portion which he has. This is real. I have no reason to joke around about this. You may label my certainty as pride. All I can say is there is absolutely no way that you can know for yourself unless you will allow God to even engage in that conversation with you. If we vainly attempt to limit God to this form or that. Well, we are merely picking the form of our destroyer without realizing it.
    Why tell ourselves that we are safe because we are willing to admit that all is not well in Zion. But we are fools for not admitting that The Church is NOT Zion…never was and and never was intended to be. It is sheer foolishness that makes us think that the phrase “The Holy Church of God” in the scriptures refers to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I do not say this out of spite. It is only too clear. There are only two churches….I would suggest you read D&C 10 to be shown more clearly that our opinions matter not at all. We are as the early saints still misunderstanding what constitutes the Holy Church of God. There is one that requires baptism and one that does not necessarily. The LDS Church will not, can never succeed in placing God in a box. This is the vanity that we fall prey to as church-goers. We place God in a stone structure, a Church building, a Temple….we tell Thomas S. MOSES to keep God at bay…to keep him up on the mountain top at a safe distance and we REFUSE GOD ENTRANCE INTO OUR HOLY TEMPLES BY DENYING HIM FULL REIGN IN OUR HEARTS. Thats the plain simple truth.
    You have the choice of accepting or rejecting what I have to say. If you find it difficult or impossible to accept, I would advise you dismiss “my” concepts entirely, if you wish… Why do I say this? Because I am not trying to convert you I am not a missionary here. There is zero need…YOU ALREADY KNOW. Whether you choose to be ACTIVE with that knowledge you have or to remain INACTIVE in that God given knowledge by remaining active in and according to the Saltican City is entirely up to you. Only by acting on what is whispered to our hearts will that whisper be amplified and will we be saved. We all agree that there are problems and in as much as we lie to ourselves and “act” as if difinitive action is not required of us. We not only deny the scriptures but we defy God and this routes leads directly to destruction.

  3. Great post. For me, activity = forgiving and loving others and a righteous desire to share the gospel and bring others to Christ. Keep it up.

  4. Okay, I don’t know how to contact anyone on here; that’s why this comment is here (totally off topic).

    Has anyone heard about the petition on bycommonconsent(dot)org? This is NOT the blog. It is a petition to have the church tell at least its members where their donations are going (financial disclosure).

    Most people sign with their full names and places (city, country). Some give less. I wonder if our leaders will pay attention to this petition?

  5. The bycommonconsent(dot)com site seems to think the name of the org site is to siphon away people from them (and I saw no comment section on the post to rebut this), but the name comes from the law of common consent. We cannot give our common consent to how the funds are currently being spent because we are left completely in the dark about it.

  6. Lol — you can’t get the name of your blog [by common consent] from a pre-existing primary resource — and then cry “foul” when someone else [wanting to appeal to the primary resource] uses the same phrase as you.

    Here’s a link to the petition:

    By Common Consent petition

  7. Exactly what I thought, Justin.

    Thanks for posting the link. (I was afraid to after having so many of my comments end up in spam the last few times I commented – besides, your link looks better than one I would have posted.)

  8. I looked at the petition.
    When Jesus healed a man born blind the leaders of the church made it a test case. If you believed that the healing was done by the power of God you were kicked out of the church. In Alma 14 similar event only they burned the believers.
    I wonder if people will be afraid to sign the petition and tell who and where they are and perhaps suffer repercussions?
    But I believe the man born blind and even those burned for believing were much better off for their actions.

  9. Anonymous, I thought the same thing. I was afraid to sign the petition for that reason, but did anyway (but didn’t put my town or state). I think the people who signed only their first name or didn’t put a place may have been afraid to do so.

    It’s a sad and sorry state when we are afraid to ask for the right given to us by God. The petition doesn’t ask that we tell them how to spend the money, just that we know how it is being spent (and I think knowing how much the GAs get paid would be good).

    I do think there will come a time (perhaps sooner than we think) that we will have a test case, a way for the leaders (whoever they may be at the time) to find out who fits what is acceptable and what is unacceptable to them.

  10. My wife’s comment: “I’d be willing to put my name to something if it would change something.”

    That petition could garner thousands of signatures — but it wouldn’t make the LDS leaders do anything. All it’ll do is tell them who to witch-hunt, should they become so inclined.

  11. Yes that petition can change something. In fact it can make a very, very important change. It can make the most important change that can ever be made. In fact it is the only change that means anything at all.
    Making a choice to sign it, full name, and place you live most likely will never move the LDS leadership to action. And it most likely will never cause disclosure of how tithing funds are used. And yes it just might be used in persecution against you. So how can it change anything other than get me in trouble? What is so important and meaningful in that?

    As I have studied in the past couple of years I have found it vital to free myself of fear of the LDS leadership and in fact fear of all men who tell us, “You have to…” or “You can’t do that it is wrong…” especially those who claim they are speaking in behalf of God. Whether those men be of a religion or a government it is the same. If we listen to them and place them as truth rather than placing the voice in our hearts as truth then we will not hear the voice in our hearts which is the true God speaking to us.
    You can’t change the churches and religious leaders. You can’t change the presidents and kings of the world. You can’t change the secret combinations/illuminatti/masons and their plans. But your world is not the way it is because of their actions. It is the way it is because your choice to give them power over you.

    So what does this have to do with a tiny little petition who probably no one will ever see?

    Exactly because there may be negative repercussions attached to it signing the petition can change YOU.

    The only thing we can change is the only thing which makes any difference and it is the only thing we need to change, OUR MIND and HEART.

    Each brave act we do in the face of that which puts fear in us breaks a link in the chains which bind us. Bind us to what? Chains which bind us to a world where we can not live as God lives. That world in within our minds and hearts. It is there which we must pass the gods and sentinels which prevent of from approaching the throne of God and saying “I desire now to enter your presence.” or saying, “Lord, show thyself unto me.” But we think if we say the words it will not work because we have fear within us. So I suggest any step which can rid us of any fear is the most important change that can ever be made.

    I have never revealed my true name and identity on this blog. But if you want to know just go to the petition page and look at name number 572. That’s me.

  12. Even if no one gets in trouble for signing the petition, and nothing is done about the finances, the people signing it may see that they’re not alone. They may have a paradigm change in their own souls.

    There is change afoot in the church. There is a separation among those members who view the church as the church of Jesus Christ, but are not so sure that the brethren or the church is infallible as we have been taught (while at the same time we have been taught to deny that) – and those members who believe the leaders cannot make mistakes, that the church is exactly where Christ would ideally have it right now.

  13. Your’e comments are not entirely off the topic Toni. In a way they are right on. When will we awaken and realize that we can not be condemned for our actions. If we are truly acting rather than reacting as so many in the world today do. We can however condemn ourselves by our INACTION. We know better (we can see at least in our mind’s eye something of what Zion will look like). If we do not act on that knowledge it will be taken away from us. Thats all there is to it. No more Justifying our inaction.

    Ps. Remember (s)words are for spiritual surgery as well as slaying.

  14. Elder Chantdown, I agree with much of what you say in this post but I must protest. It seems that if a person is active in the church, you assume they cannot be doing the Lord’s will. But the Lord’s plan includes everyone, including the misguided saints who believe “activity” in the church is the one and only way to salvation. Is it inconceivable to believe that the Lord would ask some to remain within the organization to help those there come unto Christ?

    If it is possible to say that you can be saved by NOT participating in the church, then it is possible to say that you CAN be saved by participating in it. It is not the place you are working that matters, but who you are working for. After all, Nephi killed Laban. Certainly, attending an LDS ward cannot be more difficult to justify than that.

  15. Wildrose — I agree with:

    If it is possible to say that you can be saved by NOT participating in the church, then it is possible to say that you CAN be saved by participating in it.

    I’d just modify the latter portion to read: “it is possible that you CAN be saved while still participating in it.”

    The “saved by participating in it,” sounds too much to me like it does the saving. But I agree with most of what you wrote — and similar reasons are behind why my family’s still active LDS.

  16. The premise and theme of the entire post is SPIRITUALY GUIDED ACTIVITY over the alternative. It is just as possible that the spirit may indicate a path for you that incorporates more or less regular attendance of LDS Church meetings. Just as it was possible for the spirit to direct Nephi to slay Laban. But when you say JUSTIFY, this is an indication of what I am calling to our attention here.

    There was NO need for Nephi to justify his slaying of Laban. Only the natural man, who is confused to a greater or lesser degree about his connection to God feels it necessary to justify his actions. We like Nephi all have this natural man with us. We could call it the Left Brain who, most of the time, wrongly sees itself as acting alone and all too often does rebel against the ONE True God to do as it sees best. In truth one can see clearly the reason for slaying Laban. And God does not engender confusion by finding fault with those who obey His voice.

    That going to church frequently enough to maintain status as an ‘active’ member is easily justifiable is no indicator of righteousness. Matter of fact it should if anything be checked by our hearts and minds together by making it a matter of true prayer. If the spirit has told you to go to church and still tells you to go to church and to do so every Sunday, then do it. There is no need for justification. But just like you have pointed out, one action repeated over and over is not necessarily (although generally it may be) the exclusive path to damnation or salvation. It is also the case, that we may be doing something for a COMBINATION of right AND wrong reasons. God beckons, “Come now let us reason together.” He wants to be able to speak to and through our hearts AS WELL as our minds…and for the two to engage in dialogue as equals. Unless this is occurring on a constant basis like a WELL OILED machine, we can not say that our lamps are operating or that they are not needed in such matters because things like going to church are, in our minds a given.

    Though the majority of our Wards of Wolves would be unanimous in their support, these are no more than someternal laws we have made up unto ourselves despite the testaments of the Book of Life and other Holy Scripture, even spirit-filled primary songs which tell us, “Families Can Be Together Forever” but issue no such promise for Churches. If you try to sing “Churches Can Be Together Forever” will not get the same burning affirmation of the Holy Spirit. Try it and compare the spirit.

    Ok, ok…you have not claimed that the Church is eternal. But in regards to what you have said, I feel that a quote from the other Lion In Zion, Bob Marley is in order — “If you knew your history, then you would know where I’m coming from. Then you wouldn’t have to ask me….”
    “Is it inconceivable to believe that the Lord would ask some to remain within the organization to help those there come unto Christ?”

    To remain?
    “Come follow me and *I* will make you fishers of men.” is the invitation. Would “Sure Jesus, right after I finish my home-teaching assignment and make some phone calls for next weeks temple trip.” be the appropriate response. Where did Jesus take them to make them fishers of men? To synagogue? If Jesus was a corporate slave of the church or had perhaps been reduced to a magical bag of bones laid in tomb enshrined in each ward and stake building which could grant us salvation with total lack of understanding and lack of heart and mind unity on our part then sure, I suppose church attendance would the best way and even mandatory. But when it comes to the modern church and Jesus, to whom we are to bring souls…I think the angel said it best, “HE IS NOT HERE.”

    You said it is all about WHO we work for. And we are admonished to be agents unto ourselves and do much good work. So we should always ask and then study, ponder and pray (which will likely cut into an active mormon’s church service) till we know what God is asking when He, between expressions of disgust and vows to destroy, asks us “Who has required these things at your hand?”

    I most certainly agree with what you have said, that “the Lord’s plan includes everyone, including the misguided saints who believe “activity” in the church is the one and only way to salvation.” And this is why I said what I did at the end of the post.

    You have two options before you. Either press forward with faith in God or GO BACKwards TO the CHURCH Wards. Either way you will get there…because God is all powerful and so there is no ‘there’, where to you must get. He stands at the door and knocks. All we must do is let him enter. There is no substitute for this truest of communion with Him. There is indeed a blessing that falls on all the stiffnecked LDS who tell themselves that they believe that “activity” in the church is the one and only way to salvation. This blessing follows them through out their long dark journey through the labyrinth of church. It is this….EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW AND EVERY TONGUE CONFESS THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST. Thank God for that.

  17. Great Post.
    I often felt bad for not going to church, and you know, some Members “inviting” you to join the sacrament and promising how you will feel the holy ghost and all that fluffy happiness etc. etc.
    I felt sick because I know that the Ward I went too didn’t change, and If I don’t fall into THEIR ways, i’ll be an outcast anyway sooner or later.

    btw, on another note. what happens with your data in the church when you leave them? they will still keep it right?

  18. Elder Chantdown, I agree completely that Christ is the only way to salvation and that the church is increasingly becoming a hinderment rather than a help to individuals seeking Christ. I take incidence only on your insistence that going to church is always the wrong choice. What Jesus commanded His apostles was their individual courses. Everyone will have their individual paths to follow.

    The church is made of individuals. It’s not evil in and of itself. If enough church members turn to God and stay within the church, it will become, generally speaking, a body of Christ’s worshippers. Even now, though the majority of members seem to be deceived concerning the way to salvation, they do still genuinely desire to serve God and are trying their best to do so. There is no reason why you can’t meditate and pray in sacrament meeting instead of your home. On the other hand, there may be someone at church who needs your encouragement to continue seeking God who you would not meet at home.

    I learned to pray and study my scriptures from church. These things led me to obtain a personal relationship with God. God can work with anyone anywhere. It is as foolish to say that we cannot be active church members and serving the Lord as it is to say we must be active members to serve the Lord. The Lord will command us as He will.

  19. I never say never. I understand and believe that a person can be led by the spirit to go to church. As you say it is all about personal paths. This is how Christ works with us. The corporate church played a big part in my path. But you and I both know that there is a line and that it is being crossed. We both know that the institution of the Church is corrupted. This is no need for individual souls to become corrupted and go down with the ship. Perhaps some may hold out false hope for the group because of fond memories. Or there are many who probably think that they are qualified judges of what being “good” means. Maybe Moroni is being too harsh when he is shown the modern LDS in vision and proclaims that “none of them, no not one” does good. The salvation of the REAL CHURCH as you describe, a body of saints, lies in the utter destruction of the FAKE CHURCH ™. So yes my vioce and tone happen to be a bit more aligned with the prophets of old…if only because this is precisely what we do not hear enough of. My (s)words serve God by bringing bravery to the hearts of the thousands who have been spiritually bullied. There will be plenty to bring a more watered down, less aggitating message. I am fire at my essence. It’s the way God made me so I follow it. But it’s all LOVE Wildrose. 🙂

  20. Elder Chantdown, I feel the greatness of your heart and certainly can’t disagree. Thanks for the great discussion.

    I must say, I envision the church remaining intact in the end, but without the majority of the present members. However, I believe that this small group will be joined with others to form Christ’s Church of the Firstborn on earth. I don’t think all the present leaders are confused about God’s plan.

  21. Churches are a tough issue because currently they aren’t communities. They are groups of people trying to produce community. It’s backwards. The church of Christ gathers because of their changed hearts and their connections with each other — it can’t gather to make those things happen.

    The “ekklesia” was supposed to be our vacation [or rest] from the world — while we can’t think of anything better to do after three hours of church on Sunday than to get home and rest from it.

    Personally — I feel no real community/connection with the members of our congregation. Not to be harsh, there are members we generally like, members we care for, members we spend time with outside of church — but conformity of belief is so prized that no one will be themselves [if “themself” is something different from the understood, acceptable mainstream]. And we really only become good friends with members once we spend enough time with them outside the three-hour block that the scripted, church-facade gets dropped — and we begin to see the Real that’s behind it.

    Both non-Mormons and highly disaffected LDS have both asked me why I go to church when that’s the way I feel about it — and my best answer has been that it’s because I received a revelation telling me that the LDS church was true and that I should be baptized — so I did. And the Spirit hasn’t told me anything different since then.

    But as I saw the lack of spiritual gifts manifesting, the lack of the miraculous works of the Father, etc. — I saw only the doctrines, commandments, and works of men — the devotion to outward appearances, the reliance of money — etc.

    My first instinct was that I needed to “fix” the church — but I didn’t want to start that because excommunication usually follows an attempt to “call the church to repentance” or “steady the ark”, as it were.

    I was pretty internally-bothered for some time by going to a church where I saw things not operating according to the word of God [noticing where they weren’t done scriptural, etc.], but knowing that the Spirit told me I was to be there. I didn’t get it.

    Then the Spirit kinda threw me a bone with the understanding of the tribe being a body separate from the church:

    An alternate view of the keys
    Tribal worship services

    where each has jurisdiction over their own. I stopped feeling so bothered or personally offended by what the church leaders were doing because it’s not my fight. They have their own jurisdictions and will be judged by how they govern in their stewardships — and I have no part in that dynamic.

    So — I go to church every week because those are my standing orders from the Spirit — and She hasn’t told me different yet.

    The church is still in its unified state [a single corporate entity] — and I think the time to leave will be when the earthquake breaks the unified LDS church into a plurality of multiple Mormon sects.

    However, the congregation I feel the most alive in is certainly the family, rather than the church.

  22. According to Mormon 8:35-41 you are 100% right about the few. Unfortunately the church has succumbed to most of the warnings Mormon gave us, pride, wealth, fine apparel, fine buildings, etc… The Pure Church of God is defiled by the great majority of its leaders and members with Mitt Romney at the lead. I pray for the leadership of the church not only to be safe in these dark time but to free themselves from the hold mammon has over them, become humble and lead the church away from the world, not towards it.

  23. Kerry, I believe that people get the leaders they deserve, generally speaking. So it’s the members who must change and then righteous leaders will naturally be appointed. It’s impossible to lead people where they don’t want to go.

    Just my opinion.

  24. There is an idea in the comments by Wildrose which is shared by many people and I think it is worth making a point. I have seen it many times and I understand it I used to see things that way also.
    It is clinging to an idea that the leadership of the LDS church is still supported by God. And the idea that we get the leaders we deserve so it is the people’s fault not the prophets.
    Well I think that is false. It is only true in the sense that the present leaders come from the ranks of people so they are much the same as the general membership. But as I have studied the history from documents which are freely available I am convinced that leadership, the 15 men who are supposed to be apostles have not been such for over 100 years. And by this time they are not just good men trying to keep the ship together and trying to help us off-base members to finally repent and come to Christ and that if we as members would repent then the church would turn around.
    No that is not true. Just think of the church which Peter and Paul were apostles in and then fast-forward to 110 years after the death of the last real apostle. So that would be 100 years after John the Revelator went underground not to be heard until sometime in the 1800’s. So then you get a Pope who is as much a government official as he is a “church leader”. Do you really think if a lot of the members back then had turned to God then the leaders would have turned the boat around and repented themselves? How can a person who has claimed to be an apostle repent and say “I am not a true witness of Christ’s life and death but I said I was but now I am going repent and become one.” How does that work? Can man choose to be an apostle and God will say “Oh okay then you are one now.” No he does not.
    The 15 men who claim to be prophets seers and revelators are not so. They have none of the signs which follow even true believers let alone qualifications to be apostles. And as such they are not following God and neither are people whom they lead.. They can not lead you where they are not going themselves.
    As you follow them Satan is gaining more power over you.
    One of them used an example which I will now use. He spoke of the dam which gave way suddenly in Idaho. The waters were rushing toward the town. The people who heard about it from someone by phone up stream went into the streets yelling for people to get to high ground. He said that is the way we should be about preaching the gospel.
    Well I am saying to you. Get out now! The waters are at your neck and you don’t even know it. Get out now! Seek higher ground. You are not safe where you are! Blind guides can not lead you to safety. They are so blind the place they will lead you is a bad place a dangerous place it will prevent you from drawing closer to God. I am yelling this as plain as I can!
    Get out now before you are so deeply asleep you will not see it for what it is.
    God is real. He is our Father. Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He already paid for your sins. Your following of the brethren will not help you gain eternal life. It will not allow you to be redeemed from the fall. It will keep you a slave for as long as you follow it.
    There I said it.

  25. I too for a time used to sweat silly stuff like the fact that the corporate church is not doing things according to scripture….but then I realized my hypocrisy …see that is the problem with only having a left brain understanding of the situation….or maybe having also the stirrings in the right brain heart….but NEVER LINKING THE TWO TOGETHER TO WORK IN UNION AT ALL TIMES…Here I was supposedly worried about an obviously and boldly apostate church rebelling against God’s word….but since the left brain can only focus on one thing at any given time….I was conveniently dismissing or setting aside the parts of those very scriptures that told me COME YE OUT OF HER…TOUCH NOT HER UNCLEAN THINGS. …the passages that spoke plainly and told me THE SHEPHERDS ARE WICKED….I THE LORD WILL TAKE THE FLOCK AWAY FROM THEM AND DESTROY THEM… yeah…it didnt make too much sense to me either….when I was stuck in a double minded state….but well, now it makes a lot more sense.

    I mean we sometimes feel at a standstill because we forget that we receive no witness till after the TRIAL of our faith….in other words…we ought not sit behind the trees and watch to see what happens before we act in faith….cause we will never get the evidence or sign we are waiting for. Make sense?

  26. dyc4557, I think you misunderstood what I meant. I don’t believe that the leaders themselves will change, though they could if they wanted to; I believe that the people will change leaders. The best example I can think of is the people of King Noah’s kingdom in the Book of Mormon. They were all following King Noah but then when some of them heard Alma teach, they rejected the king and followed Alma. It worked as a natural law; the jealous king tried to use force so the people had to flee for their lives.

    The scriptures say evil leaders corrupt the people. This is true, but it’s always the people first. They become lazy and stop doing the work it takes to be righteous. They start letting other people make their decisions. They elect (or sustain) people like them to lead them. But then the leaders become even more corrupt because of the power given them. They then lead the people to become more corrupt.

    The leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are foolish, vain, and deceitful. Their lies have flattered and soothed the members into believing they don’t have to do the work for their salvation, though the people had already begun that trend themselves. That leads to even greater sins as the people are left unprotected by the Spirit. It is a downward spiral that will eventually crash and burn, unless the people of the church repent. People always have the chance to repent because of the atonement of Christ. If enough do, the leaders of the church will be replaced with ones who honor their priesthood and serve the Lord.

    The members of the church can reject the current leaders as their personal guides. We can take Jesus as our guide instead and follow His commandments given us through His Spirit. If enough within the church do that, the church will change. If not, those who have turned to the Lord will be gathered out and the main church membership will be destroyed.

    You can never blame a leader for your own wickedness. Each of us must individually find the truth through the Spirit. That is the great test of life–freeing ourselves from tyrants who are trying to implement Lucifer’s plan on earth. There is always a way to do so through the atonement of Jesus Christ.

  27. Wow Wildrose I am glad you clarified. That is a great and I believe true statement. And I believe God is waking people up so that there is a growing body of people who are willing to find the true ways to live and not be dictated by external entities. God is within us. When we follow Him we are following what is inside us by our creation. Following any external source is a wrong path. You can see how this is a complete contradiction of the “follow the Brethren” mentality which has been placed in our minds for so many years.
    Now what we often experience in our lives is when we see that there must be a change and we know this change in our lives and in ourselves is from God we nearly always fail to realize just how deep and thorough that change needs to be. We never see how much must change at first. I think we can all relate to this truth.
    So we should not be surprised that the current 15 men will be gone by the hand of God without a “legal” successors.
    Don’t let such a thing shake your foundation of Faith in Christ.

  28. From the original post…

    “opposites are special relationships; two things so close that they are intimately linked. And ironically we find that the best and truly the only way to learn about one half is to learn from or through the other.”

    The leaders and the led is a perfect example of what this statement is talking about.

  29. This:

    While willfully ignorant Mormons perform vicarious work for the dead they never once supposing that they are the dead. In their pride these individuals fail to see that they are performing dead works in a whited sepulcher.

    reminded me of these scriptures:

    And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

    Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God. (Luke 9:59-60)

    And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

    But Jesus said unto him, Follow me, and let the dead bury their dead. (Matthew 8:21-22)

    Baptism for the living and for the dead are, after all, burials, are they not? Also, this scripture comes to mind:

    Wherefore, although a man should be baptized an hundred times it availeth him nothing, for you cannot enter in at the strait gate by the law of Moses, neither by your dead works. (D&C 22:2)

    How can a spiritually dead person perform a living work?

  30. Yeah…Their awful situation reminds me of Malcolm, the main character in M. Night Shyamalan’s The Sixth Sense….There he is doing all this work but he doesnt even notice till the end that he is dead.

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