Seeing Apostasy from Within

“…we know that the people who were in the land of Jerusalem were a righteous people; for they kept the statutes and judgments of the Lord, and all his commandments, according to the law of Moses; wherefore, we know that they are a righteous people…” 1 Nephi 17:22

After nearly a decade of wandering in the desert, Lehi and his family arrived on the seashore and pitched their tents in the land they called Bountiful. Nephi, according to the word of the Lord, began to fashion tools for the construction of a ship. Laman and Lemuel began, once again, to complain citing the above reference regarding the people of Jerusalem. From their view, their friends back home were on the right path. They bemoaned the fact that they could not enjoy their possessions and be happy.

As we stand here centuries later, we can see the big picture. The house of Israel has fallen into disrepair. The people of God had replaced their love and service of God with the pomp and circumstance derived from wealth and pleasure. Apostasy had set in. But to Laman and Lemuel, their easy lifestyle enjoyed in Jerusalem was the standard by which they measured the ‘rightness’ of their living. No admonition from either Lehi or Nephi could sway their sons and brothers from this viewpoint.

Given the difficulty that Laman had in seeing the real picture, how hard would it be for us in this day to see the threads of apostasy in our normal lives? Have we supplanted what the Lord defined for righteousness with our own comfortable standard?

I believe that this movement away from the truth is apostasy and can occur at two levels, organization and personal. The former dealing with the migration of the goals and objectives  promoted by the leadership and the latter expressed in our individual thoughts and actions. Let’s take a look at these two themes.

Corporate Apostasy

Today, we can easily see that the church established by the apostles in the meridian of time moved away from the true principles established by Christ. Let’s look a little more closely at what outward characteristics emerged from this change.

As we look at the Holy Roman Church, we find an entity that expressed itself in the form of magnificent edifices. St. Peter’s Basilica, first commissioned by Constantine, was rebuilt in the 15th century with no equal. While churches dominated the landscape of most cities of the time, none compared to the structure finally completed in the early 1600’s. A considerable amount of wealth was spent in the construction of beautiful buildings, meant to send a message of the power and prestige of the Catholic church.

The need of the church to express itself in terms of its physical environment extended to the surrounding areas of its headquarters in Vatican City. Speaking of the popes of the 14th and 15th century, here is a quote from The Restoration by Wil Durant (page 14):

“They labored to redeem Rome from the ugliness and squalor into which it had fallen while the popes were in Avignon. They drained marshes (by comfortable proxy), paved streets, restored bridges and roads, improved the water supply, established the Vatican Library and the Capitoline Museum, enlarged the hospitals, distributed charity, built or repaired churches, embellished the city with palaces and gardens, reorganized the University of Rome, supported the humanists in resurrecting pagan literature, philosophy, and art, and gave employment to painters, sculptors, and architects whose works are now a treasured heritage of all mankind…perhaps they thought of it as transforming scattered crumbs of evanescent wealth into a lasting splendor for the people and their God.”

The true reverence of God is not expressed in magnificent buildings, gardens, and lavish art. Could this extravagant effort to honor God with the works of man be an outward sign to the apostasy within?

At its height, the Holy Roman Church exerted political influence well beyond the confines of the Vatican. Princes and kings sought out the elite of the church hierarchy to solidify alliances and to position themselves. Leaders of the church traveled not only to Germany and France but to China and India to gain favor with the rulers of these foreign lands. At home and abroad, politics played an integral role in the lives of the popes. Does the ability to influence politics domestically and worldwide serve as a marker of the wayward path?

The practice of indulgences, the idea of reducing the time of a loved one in Purgatory through the purchase of the excess grace of the saints, represented one of the primary methods for creating ongoing cash flow. The donations to the church, then as now, were viewed as ‘fire insurance.’ To spin off an old refrain, money corrupts, and a lot of money corrupts greatly. Such was the Catholic Church in the middle ages. Property bequeathed to the church held the giver higher in the eyes of God, or does it generate a false hope?

Four years before Martin Luther tacked his 95 Theses on the door of the church at Wittenberg, Machiavelli penned the following in his Discourses, iii:

“ Had the religion of Christianity been preserved according to the ordinances of the Founder, the state and the commonwealth of Christendom would have been far more united and happy than they are. … And whoever examines the principles which that religion is founded, and sees how widely different from those principles its present practice and application are, will judge that her ruin or chastisement is near at hand.”

This statement foreshadowed the reformation; an effort to return to the basic principles that were contained in the founding words of apostles. Have we of the LDS church diverged from the original principles upon which the religion was founded? Has the money and power afforded the LDS church over these last decades succeeded in moving us away from the principles contained in the fulness of the gospel? I have found nothing in the scriptures that suggests this generation is immune from apostasy. Are we so blind, as Laman and Lemuel were, to not see what is happening to the corporate church?

In Third Nephi, chapter 27, Christ outlines the criteria for the church to be His. In addition to being called by His Name and tuned to His gospel, He requires that the church ‘show forth the works of the Father’.’ He also warns us that ( verse 11):

If the church “is built upon the works of men, or upon the works of the devil, verily I say unto you they have joy in their works for a season, and by and by the end cometh, and they are hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence there is no return.”

Assuming what I described above, are we taking joy in the works of men? Is the season coming to a close?

Individual Apostasy

Just as there could be markers of apostasy for the corporate entity, there are also similar markers for us as individuals. Apostasy comes from the Greek meaning ‘to stand away,’ and means today that one departs from one’s religion or principles. Subtle apostasy would have us focus our time, talents, and energy on items at ‘appear’ to be important but are really only invalid substitutes for the real thing.

In Matthew 23, we read:

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

Is it possible that we, today, can do many wonderful works, yet be rejected by Christ? I submit that this substitution of works instead of seeking to be known by Christ represents the type of apostasy that threatens us today. Can we assume that attending the temple, doing our home teaching,  fulfilling our callings and all the other various and sundry activities we are called upon to do in the church today can substitute for having a relationship with Christ sufficient to be ‘known’ by Him?

In the times of the Middle Ages, the tradition of visiting relics and defined sacred sites became very important. Martin Luther, himself, tells of his effort to climb the 200+ steps of a holy site on his knees, reciting a prayer on each step in hopes of currying favor with God. Do we exert such an outward effort in hopes that God will recognize our sacrifice? At the same time, do we ignore the fundamental gospel steps of repentance, faith, baptism by water followed by baptism by fire and the Holy Ghost?

As I sat in fast and testimony meeting last week, I was struck by the ‘testimony’ of an older gentleman who talked of his challenges in keeping his business solvent. He described a discussion with his brother where he was told: “I pay my tithing; I have no reason to worry.” Has tithing become simply a modern day equivalent of the Holy Roman Church’s indulgences? Is there an implied promise that if we pay our money to the church we will receive some level of protection? I am not proposing that anyone who pays tithing is in apostasy. My intent is to raise the concern that substituting tithing for the true meaning of the gospel, to bring us to Christ, will not bring us to our intended goal – His kingdom.

Can the LDS Church fail? Yes, if it allows money, politics and power to supplant the ministry of the gospel. Can we as individuals fail? Yes, if we allow the works of men to replace a relationship with Christ.

These are the questions we must answer for ourselves:

Have I received a remission of my sins? See 2 Nephi 31:17-18,

Have I been sanctified? See 3 Nephi 27:20-21

Have I been cleansed by the power of the Holy Ghost that I may be numbered among the people of the Church of Christ? See Moroni 6:1-4

Once we have prepared our hearts then we turn our effort toward our neighbors. Have we accomplished our personal preparation such that we can assist our brothers and sisters with a pure heart? See Mosiah 4:11-30

Are we, as Laman, defining our own criteria for righteousness?

What think ye?


  1. My first thought on reading “The true reverence of God is not expressed in magnificent buildings, gardens, and lavish art. Could this extravagant effort to honor God with the works of man be an outward sign to the apostasy within?” was temples, conference center, $2Billion mall.

    “I submit that this substitution of works instead of seekin to be known by Christ represents the type of apostasy that threatens us today.” Perhaps you can elaborate on this more. Wasn’t it Christ himself who commanded us to ‘love our neighbor’ and ‘when ye have done it [good works] unto the least of these they brethren, ye have done it unto me’?

    PS. I really like your definition “…movement away from the truth is apostasy…”

  2. Great post! Especially timely considering that next weeks lesson for us “churchgoers” is titled “Beware the Bitter Fruits of Apostasy”. Very timely, and ironic ehh=)

    “Can the LDS Church fail? Yes, if it allows money, politics and power to supplant the ministry of the gospel”

    I believe that some people would change the question to “has the LDS church failed?” and answer the same for the same reasons. This is not to say that the members have all failed, there are many of good members that want to know the truth but they just need to be taught at the right time with the right spirit.

    Keep up your posts. They are invigorating to me! God bless you LDSAnarchy.


  3. Anon asked: “Wasn’t it Christ himself who commanded us to ‘love our neighbor’ and ‘when ye have done it [good works] unto the least of these they brethren, ye have done it unto me’?

    I don’t dispute that we are to do good works. What I hope to identify is the priority that we should consider. When Christ was asked ‘what is the great commandment in the law?’ he answered:

    “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.” (Matt. 22:37-39)

    I believe there is a significance in the order in which these two commandments were presented. First, is to love God and second is to love our neighbor. I would suggest that we are to give higher priority to the first. I would even go so far as to say that we must love God before we can love our neighbor. How can we love God if we don’t know Him?

    Speaking to Peter, Christ told him: ‘when thou are converted, strengthen thy brethren.’ I believe what He meant was that Peter was first to go through the baptism of fire on the day of Pentecost before he (Peter) would be able to assist his fellow men.

    After the people of Mosiah had received a remission of sins through the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost (Mosiah 4:3), they were then admonished to love, serve and succor one another. This again suggests a sequence. We must first be converted (receive a remission of our sins through the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost) before we can extend the love of God to our brethren.

    Could it be that our service to others is not deemed correctly motivated until we have been converted? Is this why the Lord dismissed those who had done many works and prophesied in His Name by saying ‘I know you not?’

    Hope that helps to understand where I am coming from.

    Thanks for the comments.

  4. Excellent and timely post Spek.

    I just wanted to piggy-back on the thoughts you expressed regarding Laman and Lemuel’s attitude and how they are relevant to modern-day LDS. It seems that one reason Nephi’s bothers considered the Jews of their time to be righteous was because Jerusalem was such a mighty city:

    And thus Laman and Lemuel, being the eldest, did murmur against their father. And they did murmur because they knew not the dealings of that God who had created them.
    Neither did they believe that Jerusalem, that great city, could be destroyed according to the words of the prophets. And they were like unto the Jews who were at Jerusalem, who sought to take away the life of my father (1 Nephi 2:12-13).

    What caught my eye today was a link on the front page of to an article commenting on an HBO series entitled “Big Love”, which depicts the Fundamentalist lifestyle, I presume. The writers of the series plan to air an episode that includes scenes depicting temple rites. In response, the church put out a statement that includes the following:

    “As someone recently said, ‘This isn’t 1830, and there aren’t just six of us anymore.’ In other words, with a global membership of thirteen and a half million there is no need to feel defensive when the Church is moving forward so rapidly….When the comedy writers for South Park produced a gross portrayal of Church history, individual Church members no doubt felt uncomfortable. But once again it inflicted no perceptible or lasting damage to a church that is growing by at least a quarter of a million new members every year….(and with respect to Prop 8) Again, the Church has refused to be goaded into a Mormons versus gays battle and has simply stated its position in tones that are reasonable and respectful. Meanwhile, missionary work and Church members in California remain as robust and vibrant as ever, and support for the Church has come from many unexpected quarters — including some former critics and other churches.”

    So, just to reiterate Spek’s concern, a deeper look at Christ’s words should provoke some questioning:

    If the church “is built upon the works of men, or upon the works of the devil, verily I say unto you they have joy in their works for a season

    Are we so righteous and mighty a people that we will not be overcome? Have we also built up a “great city” that cannot fall? Do we “know not the dealings of that God who had created [us]?”

    Thanks again Spek,

  5. BTW–I have no idea where that smiley face came from in my post above. Sorry.

  6. NEPT,

    Thanks for the insight. I hadn’t considered that aspect of Laman’s perspective on Jerusalem..

    If I recall, the smiley face comes when dash8 is used like this -8.

    How many times in the last few months have I heard that some entity is to big to fail…


  7. “First, is to love God”. To this He said “if you love me feed me sheep” and “if you love me keep my commandments”. So this higher priority to love God seems to be satisfied with one concrete action (good works) and a rather IMO vague phrase (keep commandments). Are either of these ‘higher priority’ than the other?

    I’m not convinced that we must know God before we can help our neighbor. Did the Good Samaritan know God first? Perhaps freely giving of oneself is to know God?

  8. Great article… so… a… is it going to be another 3 months until we hear anything from you?

    I was beginning to wonder if the rapture had taken place and I was left behind with all the other infidels…

  9. Anon,
    It is interesting that the statements you used are both conditional; if you love me (then) keep my commandments. Doesn’t that imply that we must love him first?

    I still come back to Matthew 22. If we have prophesied in His name and have done many works, why would Christ not know us? What can we learn about the expectations that are placed on us by the gospel?

    I liken this to the instruction we receive when we fly on a commercial airline. Remember to put your own mask on first and then put it on those who need assistance.

    Could it be that we are expected to give the ‘glory’ to Him just as He gave the ‘glory’ to His Father? Perhaps.

  10. OWIW,
    Sorry for the lapse. I hope it isn’t another three months. I learn many things from the comments.

    Another thought on Anon’s comments. In His definition of the gospel in third Nephi 27, Christ said:

    “And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross; and after that I had been lifted up upon the cross, that I might draw all men unto me”

    I would suggest that we are here to focus on Christ. If we do that, we are blessed by receiving the following:

    “And no unclean thing can enter into his kingdom; therefore nothing entereth into his rest save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood, because of their faith, and the repentance of all their sins, and their faithfulness unto the end.”

    I believe that no amount of good works can accomplish the sanctification found in the blood of Christ.


  11. I love your comments Spek.

    By the way, I’m Mrs. Watcher, I had to change my WordPress nickname so that I could have a more appropriate name for a health blog I am doing. .

    Regarding your comments, a scripture that helps me with faith and works is Romans 9 and 10

    “But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
    Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
    As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and brock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
    1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
    2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
    3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
    4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
    5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
    6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
    7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
    8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
    9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.”

    From these scriptures we learn that Israel was trying to earn their salvation by doing one deed after another. The correct way to receive salvation is to have Faith in the atonement of Christ;

  12. The definition of apostasy as given “movement away from truth” I don’t think is sufficient. Otherwise, any person to become inactive would be an apostate because they know the truth of attending church each Sunday, and don’t do it.

    Also, the early members sacrificed a great deal to make the temple a place fit for a glorious God, after all it is the House of the Lord. I don’t have a problem with edifices that are grand in scope and quality.

    The intent of an institution or individual is the basis for the apostasy.
    Point #1 Laman and Lemuel never trusted and believed in God’s power. They never sought for the witness. Therefore their intent was on hating their father for seeing visions that took them away from luxury to continually camping. Nephi being a prophet too just multiplied their anger.
    Point #2 How many epistles did Paul write trying to get members to all be on the same page? Paul didn’t have 13 million members in hundreds of countries. The church has to be organized and recognized in some form through out the world. The members are fallible, so the church institution is fallible. The argument is what you think of the leaders intent is with the corporate entity church.
    Point #3 Confucius believed that if a man looks inward and changes himself to be more virtuous, then he can serve and help his neighbor. Then the cycle of all men becoming more virtuous starts and spreads outward. The same here with the Lord. He asks us to accept His gift of the atonement. Then, we can repent and move forward continually changing to be better. This is our cycle.

    Only God knows the intents of a man’s heart completely. We have been told, to look at their fruits, and if we do we will know if they are good or evil. That can be tricky sometimes, look at Oprah. It seems like she’s doing good getting people to read and building a school in Africa. But, she teaches people to be selfish. Because of the not knowing the intent, and the ability for the Devil to fool, we need the Spirit desperately. Without the praying, fasting, searching the scriptures and listening to the Spirit, each one of us here could fall into apostasy.

    My biggest peeve at church, is when people rattle off the easy answers. Pray, fast, read your scriptures and go to church. Those four things are said without heart, without believing the hard truth behind them. They treat them as naught, and I hold them in reverence. That is why I too fear for the apostasy from within.

  13. Great article, Spek! I tend to agree-good works are a result of our faith in Christ. They are faith in action. It is Christ and our faith in the atonement that save us.

    JL, I have to agree with the last paragraph. I just gave a lesson on searching diligently and praying always. I feel that it really is the way to increase our faith-the only was to Christ. But often, we (as a people) dont give them much thought.
    However, I disagree that intent is how we know apostasy. Many will be deceived. To me deception means you *think* you are on the right track, but you aren’t. They will be shocked when The Savior says he does not know them. Many who apostatize fully believe they are doing what is right.

    I read this last night. 2 Nephi 28 is a great and terrible chapter. It is speaking of our time and it makes me so sad to see the prophesy being fulfilled.
    2 Nephi 28:13
    They rob the poor because of their fine sancuaries; they rob the poor because of their fine clothing; and they persecute the meek and the poor in heart because in their pride they are puffed up.
    And in verse 21
    And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well-and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them carefully down to hell.

  14. Bounce Back,

    Hey, Mrs. Watcher, I will have to point my wife to your blog. She shares some of the same interests as you display on your wellness page. I also like the quote from Romans and would add to it from the latter part of chapter 11:

    “For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved:”

    The blindness that Paul speaks of here is the same as we could expect from those who call themselves ‘modern Israel.; Blind to the true core of the gospel; unable to see that their equivalent to the 614 laws of the early house of Israel will not bear fruit meet for the kingdom.


  15. JL,
    Regarding your comment on the temple. I would suggest that if they are built solely to honor God, I would agree with you. If they are built to solicit the interest of man, I fear that effort would be in vain. I would suppose that the temple built on the beltway of Washington Dc was built largely to attract the praise of man…

    Why did God use the image of a great and spacious building in the dream of the tree of life? Perhaps because it also represented that which was the work of man.

    While there are a few, I feel, who have the intent to bring down the kingdom of God; I suspect that there are many who simply accept the rules defined by man assuming we can trust those who lead us. I agree with Brigham Young that such an approach is not acceptable..


  16. Truthseeker,
    Thanks for the comments. I was somewhat confused by your statement:

    “Many who apostatize fully believe they are doing what is right.”

    You followed it with the reference in 2 Nephi chapter 28.

    What do you mean when you say apostatize?

    Also, who do you think chapter 28 is talking about?


  17. Hey Spek, sorry, I had two thought trains going and a little one on my lap.

    Many people who apostatize will think they are doing what is right.
    Well, in the early days of the church there were lots of false spirits and false revelation. I think the people were deceived and really (initially) thought it was from God.
    There are people who have left the church who in their hearts believe something different is right.
    There are people in the church who are puffed up with pride and rely on the arm of the flesh and aren’t guided by the Spirit of God.
    Then there are people in the church like me who are questioning some of the things the leaders have said or done.

    Well, any or all of these could be called apostates by someone. I don’t really feel qualified to judge. But I think it is fair to say that anytime we stop talking to God and following his Spirit that we are in jepordy of apostatizing. I think that is falling away.

    As for Nephi 28, I believe it is speaking of the last days. Including our time. I think it is applicable to us. I don’t know many people calling themselves “Zion.” I believe the Lord’s people are being spoken to and warned. It seems to me that many different churches are being talked about, but I know that God’s church is also being talked about.

  18. D&C 28: 11 indicates an event where Hiram Page believed that he was writing the things of God from a stone. In the revelation, Hiram was to be rebuked for it. Accepting the mistake and learning how to not fall prey to Satan’s deception is the lesson. However, had Hiram Page decided the rebuke was wrong, because he knew what he was doing was from God, puts Hiram in an apostate place. His intention is then to continue in the belief that he is right, no matter what.

    Now, the problem is what if the leaders are wrong? That’s a whole different can of worms. Hiram could trust the man rebuking him, can we trust those in authority? Should we trust those in authority? Look up John Koyle and the Relief Mine. Koyle wanted to talk to the church President to explain and give proof that he was called of God, but never got the chance. Other church leaders though had acted on his dreams, so he wasn’t a complete kook. Eventually he was excommunicated. Was he deceived by Satan, or were the church authorities overly anxious about this man?

    There is a thin line here. Satan is crafty which is why members need to be vigilant in their lives. If not, they will not be able to identify the deception. Members need to work on receiving revelation and how the Holy Ghost witnesses to them truth. I give LDSA a heartfelt thank you for describing his bartering coin experience. There are many members that would think he was apostate for believing God sent him on the errand.

  19. Thanks for the post!

    I had some thoughts too, upon reading the other comments. First is the somewhat nebulous term “apostasy”. We see two differing versions of apostasy in front of us. Apostasy from Group think, from the organization, its goals and ideals. Second, apostasy from Christ, from truth, from Zion.

    Often people say to me, tell me an instance where a prophet lead the people astray. Although this can be done rather easily, I think it misses the mark. The record we read in scripture is written by those who identified with the Truth of Christ, not with an organization. Differentiating between the two to them was second nature. When a Prophet or leader began to go astray, or led and taught contrary to the truth, our scriptural writers identified them as False Prophets. Though the people by and large may have called them ‘the prophet’, Mormon did not. Also, as soon as a church began to go contrary to Zions purpose it was identified as a false church. It was the church of the Devil persecuting the church of God. Mormon 8, speaking directly to us, does this explicitly. Pointing out that both groups are taught by the same people and likely worship together, though one is the church of God and one the Church of the devil. I’ve come to believe that the Lord has designed it this way. It is a natural progression in order to exalt the “few” who are humble followers of Christ (2 Nephi 28:14)).

    The Persecution heaped on those on the correct side of the great Gulf by those in the Great and Spacious building served to divide the wheat from the tares. Some cowered and became embarrassed, joining the church of the world, others became more firm and resolute in their pressing on. The gulf of course is figurative, as the places theses individuals reside and worship are together here in real time.

    in hebrew 7 we find that strict observance and the Law makes no one perfect. Yet in 1 peter 5:10 we are told that through the grace of Christ Jesus we are made perfect AFTER we have suffered a little while.

    finally, we see this event play out in Heleman 3, And in the *fifty and first year of the reign of the judges there was peace also, save it were the pride which began to enter into the church—not into the church of God, but into the hearts of the people who professed to belong to the church of God—

    (interesting how the prophet/editor here first distinguished that both groups were part of the same ‘church’. Then quickly he sets the true believers apart from the untrue.)

    34 And they were lifted up in pride, even to the persecution of many of their brethren. Now this was a great evil, which did cause the more humble (the few) part of the people to suffer great persecutions, and to wade through much affliction.
    35 Nevertheless they did fast and pray oft, and did wax stronger and stronger in their humility, and firmer and firmer in the faith of Christ, unto the filling their souls with joy and consolation, yea, even to the purifying and the sanctification of their hearts, which sanctification cometh because of their yielding their hearts unto God.

    Sanctification, that wholly grail of Baptism by fire, FINALLY happened to a group of people as a result of being humbled and persecuted by their brethren in the Church. Funny, they were members of the church, yet only after these events did they receive sanctification.

    This post you made hit a chord with me, as I have been pondering “fruit”. What we are essentially talking about is identifying the fruit of people or groups to aid in identifying truth from error. Testing the spirits is full of this also. Things and people can be divided logically, according to the fruits God has told us each groups will bare. And by their fruits, you shall know them.

    I certainly don’t feel that activity in a Church is a viable fruit, given the many examples of entirely inactive prophets (Isaiah for one)

    Thanks again for the post.


  20. Great comment Dan=).

    Would you mind showing me some references that show that Isaiah was not an “active” member?

  21. This would have been quite a sight in the synagogue on the Sabbath!

    2 At the same time spake the Lord by Isaiah the son of Amoz, saying, Go and loose the sackcloth from off thy loins, and put off thy shoe from thy foot. And he did so, walking naked and barefoot.
    3 And the Lord said, Like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia

    That Isaiah guy…he’s not a prophet, he was naked last week in town all day!!! or, That Jesus guy, says he’s the savior, but I saw him at the Bar with the other sinners having dinner last night! He was working on Sunday the next day…Don’t worry, when he did try to come to church we kicked him out, just thought too much of himself. His disciples don’t worship on sunday like their supposed to either! I’m going to ask him about that.. (for the reply see matt 12 and John 5)
    The savior, by himself, for 40 days in the wilderness didn’t go to ‘church’ a single time, said he was ‘fasting’.
    Yet, if I go to the woods for the month of September…..
    John the baptist came from that wilderness, likely an Essene even. Some even say the Savior was also…Apostate extremist fundamentalist group if I’ve ever heard of one.

    What does it mean to be an ‘active’ member? TO us today, we have numbers deciding that if this person comes x times a month to church, they are considered active, might even qualify to go to the temple to do work for more names. Its crazy. Active in what? Busy in works?

    An active person to the Lord is the one actively seeking HIM, his face in the temple, his voice in the wilderness, his work in Zion. Church attendance should be a personal deal, not accountable to anyone, IMO.

  22. Dan,
    Are you saying that a member of the church who faithfully attends his meetings, pays his tithing, and fulfills his callings could be an apostate? That group think, as you call it, represents the most insidious type of recruitment for the church of the devil. What are we to do when the leadership of the church puts more emphasis on tithing than on the acquisition of a remission of our sins through the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost?

    In 2003-4, President Hinckley, several times, addressed the topic of the “Condition of the Church.” Citing the members valiant efforts in the areas of tithing and temple attendance, he also noted the need to protect the Salt Lake temple by the renovation of downtown. In the October 2004 conference, he stated that “Suffice it to say that I believe the Church is in better condition than it has been at any time in its entire history.” Yes, the financial condition of the church is better than ever. What about the spiritual condition of the church? Christ has told us very plainly in 3 Nephi 27 that the church must be based on the works of God, not the works of men. At the end of the chapter, Christ tells us that He demonstrated the works of God and that we are to follow His example. Those works are found summarized in 3 Nephi 26:15 and included things like children speaking marvelous things, healing the sick and giving sight to the blind.

    “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them: they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.” (Mark 16:17-18)

    You referenced the ‘condition of the church’ described in Helaman. I have come to look at that part of the scripture as a clear marker of how fast things can change from good to ‘not so good.’ In Helaman, I feel it is important to note that before pride was detected in year 51, the following was noted in year 49 (Helaman 3:25):

    “And so great was the prosperity of the church, and so many the blessings which were poured out upon the people, that even the high priests and the teachers were themselves astonished beyond measure.”

    Material success does not equate to spiritual success. We must, individually and collectively, repent and return to Christ. We are told in Moroni 6:4 that to truly be a member of the church of Christ, we must be ‘cleansed by the power of the Holy Ghost.’ Any idea how many meet this requirement?

    Thanks for your comments.


  23. Spek said…

    We are told in Moroni 6:4 that to truly be a member of the church of Christ, we must be ‘cleansed by the power of the Holy Ghost.’ Any idea how many meet this requirement?

    I would answer, “Not many, nowadays.” But in ancient times of the church, Alma tells the people of Ammonihah that “…after being sanctified by the Holy Ghost…there were many, exceedingly great many, who were made pure and entered into the rest of the Lord their God.” In other words, when the fulness is present, having one’s calling and election made sure is not so rare.

    However, the good thing is that when the servants of the Lord who come to prune the vineyard one last time IN POWER, when the Lord sets his hand, again, to recover his people, we will have the chance to be baptized with water and with FIRE, then cometh sanctification.

    So…be ready.


  24. I agree, not many. Even less now since we are mostly a mongrel lot of Gentile covenant people. Those gifts, and the distance we must come, to receive that change of creature are further than the those scriptural examples.

    I have come to believe though, that a huge part of the change and path for us is meant to persecution from those who profess to know the name of Christ. That sanctification has a price to pay, and that is suffering for things that the ‘group’ don’t agree with. Not that we should seek persecution, but we shouldn’t shy away either. Speak for truth in humility and let the system take its course.

    I’m beginning to think the Lord has used the greedy and selfish nature of men, power hungry, etc…to produce a factory. The Managers of the factory think they are doing things most efficiently for gain, though at the expense of the workers. The owner knows better though and has provided instructions write in the manual for the workers to do their jobs as individuals-and receive the most monetary benefit possible for themselves. Very few of those workers ever see the instructions, as most are doing as the managers tell them to do. Most don’t even read the workers manual. The managers themselves largely don’t know the instructions are there and what they do they explain or change.

    As a result, those who do read and understand the message the owner was trying to tell them, stick out like a sore thumb. The other workers are annoyed as the differing folks seem to gum up the works, step on toes, are bad for company image. They do things differently. They confound management since they seem to do their jobs better, understand the rules more completely but not do as they are told. Eventually some are “fired” from their jobs. But this too is OK, as the owner has provided a clause that when a worker is fired in this manner, doing his job most efficiently, according to the book, he is compensated monetarily out of the owners pocket FAR more than they would have received slaving away in the factory for their lives. They are then set at the personal employ of the owner, with a direct line cell phone, to do the work in places outside of the walls of the factory.

    The “church” today is built to exalt the few who stick-out , though the general populace doesn’t see it that way, through study, prayer ans suffering.

    Thanks all for your comments. DAn

  25. Spek, yeah, isn’t that an incredible thought?

    “that a member of the church who faithfully attends his meetings, pays his tithing, and fulfills his callings could be an apostate”

    Perhaps that is exactly the point! Tithing is important as a part of consecration no doubt but pay it to God, not some social organization, however you feel is best to do it. Good stuff.

  26. I will be gone for about a week or so.

    Please have a wonderful week ahead of you!

    I’ll leave you with a favorite song…

    love always,

  27. Though, I do have to say that it is quite interesting your latest blog with all it’s comments would be completely taken down.

    How is it that on a blog dedicated such, you can not handle higher truths, and those that recognize it?

    If it is difficult to digest on a blog, how will you recognize it when the truth of it is fulfilled through the last doctrine?

    It is interesting that in those comments, onewhoiswatching stated his belief in that one day shortly things will be laid out clearly in black and white fashion.

    The time is sooner than you think. In the next 2 years.

    Is the Lord preparing you?

    Just some food for thought over the next week.

    Take care.

    love always,

  28. Do you want to know something funny Birdie? You said…

    How is it that on a blog dedicated such, you can not handle higher truths, and those that recognize it?

    Who were you reprimanding? LDSAnarchy? Because you then say…

    …onewhoiswatching stated his belief in that one day shortly things will be laid out clearly in black and white fashion.

    Well, if you would’ve cleared the air of the haze from all your dope smokin’ you might have been able to read your monitor to notice that the author of the very same article was ONEWHOISWATCHING, not Anarchy.

    It seems he got tired of your incoherent new age banter and took the discussion to a higher plane.

    Peace out.

  29. Apostacy from the truth should be the easiest thing in the world to spot, all one has to do is see how well they (Saints) get along with the world at large. When you see the Saints adopting the fasions, customs, music, attitudes, etc of the world as Brigham Young said then you would know that the priesthood has left the church and it is in an apostate condition! If you can’t see this then you also walk in darkness at noonday. one of the ways the devil misleads the children of men is through the traditions of men and boy do we have alot of wrong traditions. I think though that were I to point them out to you, the cry of blasphme would not cease. There are too many sacred cows namely men in high places.

  30. lol…

    Lets see.

    No drugs in this house.

    Just pure love…

    Ask Heavenly Father. He will tell you all about it. Oh thats right… you don’t trust yourself enough to hear him…

    I suppose that it all came out perfectly now didn’t it.

    The one who posted the reusing of an old, broken method is not caught tearing down the true method…

    See in you in the 3rd coming friend!

    Have an awesome trip…

    but please, at least put your hands in front of before you hit the ground. And when you need help getting back up, I’ll be there.

    love always,

  31. Peachy,

    For the first time I might have to say you are totally right about something…

    I didn’t want to believe it before. Have rejected it so completely as it possibly couldn’t be true…

    however proof is within the action…

    Christians just might be the ones we are looking at, that carry the darkened world.

    All that spews from them is hate, fear, lust for power, greed and all the apostasies that are within the world.

    No wonder it is that in the first 9 versuses of the third and final doctrine, God is literally calling the apostasy within all churches, apostasy.

    And He states few on earth are found with clean hands.

    It is amazing that most have no clue what a clean hand is.

    Thank God some us still remember Christ and where He lives.

    love always

  32. Oh and Brand,

    Bono happens to be one of the most spiritual artists in our times.
    And, he gets through to people. That is what God cares about.

    take care.

  33. Wow..

    “Apostacy from the truth should be the easiest thing in the world to spot, all one has to do is see how well they (Saints) get along with the world at large. When you see the Saints adopting the fasions, customs, music, attitudes, etc of the world as Brigham Young said then you would know that the priesthood has left the church and it is in an apostate condition! If you can’t see this then you also walk in darkness at noonday. one of the ways the devil misleads the children of men is through the traditions of men and boy do we have alot of wrong traditions. I think though that were I to point them out to you, the cry of blasphme would not cease. There are too many sacred cows namely men in high places.”

    I could have written this myself. We Mormons seem to act a lot like the kings subjects in the story of the Emperors new clothes. Even if something with the “emperor” seems to be wrong, we are afraid to say what we really feel, too much risk. Is it really any suprise that in that story it is a child that finally states that the emperor is naked?

    “A child shall lead them”
    “become as a little child…”

    Until Later….


    PS. Birdie:

    Please tell me what clean hands are instead of commenting how so few know. If you know then tell me, then I can try what you say to find out if the truth is with you.

  34. OK, the Bono comment just sealed your fate Birdie=)

  35. Hey Troy,

    If onewhoiswatching will refrain from ripping truth down, I surely will continue if you would like. Other wise, I’ll just continue with what God wants anyways. 2 books for 2 churches, and a 3rd set of tablets in the ground.

    there is but one last comment that has to be made:

    Do you really believe that the Lions tongue is going to be gentle? Especially during such apostasy?

    Do you remember, God does hold enough anger within Him, that He once drown the world in water for the apostasy.

    love always

  36. Nothing of this world seals my Fate Troy, for only God has the power to do so.

    And He has, already. Long before I even came to earth…

    Try being taught for 2 months straight by one of your best LDS priestholders, preparing me the rest of the way for my journey. 2 months with only 2 modern day artists, and all the rest church music. Bono, Bruce Springstein and church music…

    No telephone, no television, on farm land… 2 months…

    It was awesome.
    love always

  37. Birdie,

    Do you have any of my comments that I made on OWIW’s post that he took off? He said that they were all deleted, and I didn’t make copies of them. If you have any, could you send them to my email at

    Just Peachy

  38. If you receive notifications of new comments, perhaps it is in your trash if you deleted it.


  39. Birdie,

    Is there like a special code to understand what you are writing? I asked you to tell me what “Clean Hands” are because you say that you know and so few do and I get two posts that reference…

    Two books
    A Provincial Lifestyle
    A lions tongue
    Set of tablets
    The Great Flood
    A “best” Priesthood Holder
    Bruce Springstein
    The Sealing of Fate

    Yet, you did not tell me what “clean hands” are. No problem, I solved your puzzle, if you take the first letter of all of those subjects, find out the hebrew numerical equivalent and divide it by 3.14 then you get the title of Bruce Springsteins first album, Greetings From Ashbury Park, N.J. which is the numerical equivelent of “Clean hands means they have recently been washed and retain no speck of dirt, grime, disease, or poop”.

    See, even though you had to hide your message I was still able to find it.

    Gosh, this was easy!


  40. Last thought of the night…

    Just as in the similitude of all creation… there is the positive, the negative and the neutral.

    Of Joseph Smith many chose to see the negative, many chose to see the positive; however it was the choice to see what you see that mattered. Positive or negative. And each choice made is a reaffirmation of who you are.

    I learned during those two months, that even in music it is the same. You choose the positive or the negative. And it is in similitude of the last days. You choose the positive or the negative.

    I am prepared for the limited amount of people that will believe in this last day. I have been prepared all the days of my life. None the less, it will not stop my Fathers work. It will only strengthen it.

    A child’s heart never stops believing in the good that is within.

    It is an element of clean hands.

    And only clean hands can say they have seen the kingdom, as I have.

    Have I seen the kingdom? I have. And I will deny it not. And I will speak the truth of it till the ends of the earth for those that are prepared.

    In Christ’s love for all.

  41. Dadgurrnit!

    I guess I was wrong about the clean hands thing.

    So how do clean hands equate so seeing the good that is within? They don’t seem to be directly related to me. Seems that hands would have something to do with actions.


  42. I gave you a portion above Troy.

    There has to be an agreement that onewhoiswatching will not tear it down.

    He tore down the work of yesterday and today.

    He will not tear down any more.

    love always

    Good Night. Please talk to onewhoiswatching. Ask him to let the truth come to light. Granted, the doctrine won’t be on here. However the elements in my understanding can be.

    And I am sorry if it is difficult to understand. It is so much easier when it is in doctrine format. Because it isn’t my words!


    Plus…You are dealing with a child here!


  43. p.s

    your post was really funny…

    Seriously, it was. It made me laugh.

    But ouch… I think I hurt my nose. Because what you said is so true! lol…

    Doctrine is so much easier write!

    Talk to onewhoiswatching and then I will tell you.

    If I do not have his permission, I won’t. Period. end of story.

    It’s in is hand…

    I like you guys. Most of you who are actually nice, accept the ones accusing me of smoking pot! lol… that was funny too… but it isn’t true.


  44. Birdie,

    It is awfully reassuring that you don’t smoke pot. I apologize for not playing nicely.


  45. Huge smile!

    NEPT, thanks for apologizing! That is awesome!

    And hey. It’s play. In some way it all turns out good.

    Now doesn’t it?

    Sorry about the whole 3rd coming thing, and tripping and falling. Though, the trip part was kinda funny. I was just playing with your idea. lol… Though, it is true that many are going to fall, hard. But, there is a purpose for it that inevitably will turn for the good.

    Peachy, unfortunately I did not save any of the posts that were deleted. I did not think to, as why should there be a reason to think of such a thing, among a site that is reaching for truth?

    In consequence, tomorrow I will begin a different word press site. No posts will ever be deleted as ALL are welcome. Your time and effort in your writings will not be dismissed or dishonored. It will be interesting that moving between the two sites there will develop a playful banter, between them. It will ensure that the thoughts of all, will have their space and freedom.

    Hope onewhoiswatching will find the fun and the goodness that can come from it.

    love always

  46. Let me know what the address is.

  47. Kay…

    First article posted about clean hands.

    Hope you enjoy.


    Soon. It will be about love and the 7 churches.


  48. Birdie, Peaches, JR and anyone else that has denied Christ.
    This sites name is LDS Anarchy. The LDS people believe in the word of God! If you don’t have at least that as common ground these arguments are worthless! If most people on this site wanted to talk about new age s[**]t they would go to a new age site! Not one with LDS in the title. Spectator, OWIW and the Anarchist all write articles about varying points of view with one thing in common… THE WORD OF GOD!! They don’t all agree but there is a common denominator. I can only speak for myself but the spirited interesting debate that I have enjoyed for the last several months on this site has been overrun by you nuts. I can’t speak for OWIW but perhaps he felt he was casting his pearls before swine.

    Watching Anarchy run it’s course on this blog has been very telling. It feels chaotic dark and unfulfilling.

    Thank you for the good times.
    Truthseeking elsewhere

  49. Hi staunch anarchist,

    I think all LDS should consider that “all is not well in Zion”, and that the problems could included the LDS leadership. Here is a writing with my experience:

    Click to access Nsustain.pdf


    Here is a 2BC revelation that is applicable to this subject:

    SECTION 179
    Revelation received February 14, 1993
    At Santaquin, Utah

    I your Savior do say unto you at this time, that in the last days all must be revealed and not hidden, whether it be good or bad.
    2 For when men or women endeavor to hide their sins and cover them, they retain them unto themselves, and My Spirit cannot attend them.
    3 And if their sins be revealed by any other means than repentance, this is not confession which bringeth forgiveness, but is the act of being exposed which bringeth condemnation.
    4 For when Mary did confess all of her sins unto Me her Savior, did I not then forgive her?
    5 It is then that she became a chosen vessel, for if she had not done this she could not have received forgiveness and could not have entered into the kingdom.
    6 For all things must needs be exposed and made bare, either by confession or exposure.
    7 Then if by confession, then forgiveness can be made, but if not by confession, then the sins remain.
    8 This is an eternal principle, and cannot be abrogated or done away with.
    9 These laws cannot be set aside for any reason, for without total repentance there cannot be total forgiveness, and without total forgiveness there cannot be total salvation.
    10 And total repentance cannot take place unless all things are revealed, both through acts or deeds, as well as thoughts.
    11 For nothing can be hidden, but must be laid bare. Behold I say unto you, there is no other way.
    12 For that which is hidden is retained and cannot be forgiven, and at a later date shall it not be shouted upon the housetops that all may hear?
    13 And then is condemnation and not salvation.
    14 What then shall it be?

  50. Truthseeker,

    How dare you judge any! How dare you speak of things you do not know. For it is in the name of Christ that I come. But it is not Christ that we serve, but God through Christ. For ye shall have no Gods before You! And this is Christ’s testimony Himself, in His own words. In His own scripture that belong to God, and for God.

    Today I sat in the beauty shop, quiet, still and happy to be there. And upon little small talk, and upon long still pauses and quiet reprieve, the beautician began to speak. “Girl… God is calling you. You are going to do works for Him that will move this world. Much like and greater than Paula White.” She continued “You step into the room and it changes.” And I asked “For the good or for the bad”. And she said “For the good, girl”.

    Step aside truthseeker, with the things you know nothing of. God moves in this heart, as He did in my Brothers Christ. And Christ, after this work is done, will be the one to reclaim me. And if you can not love your brothers and sisters of all faiths, the adversary has you! And you WILL BE CONFOUNDED!

    And I will be the one to confound thee. Just watch me.

    For You Have brought the unfulfilling in this world, with your desires and your ways of uplifting a select few… When Christ came to deliver all. The apostasy you see is within you!

    For it is said in YOUR own scripture that you take claim to: the scriptures are written in every heart!



  51. I have not sinned in stating truth.

    However, ye have by casting judgement that is not yours to have, in things you have not chosen to seek truthful knowledge of. Tell me. Who is in darkness?

    I came to Christ a long time ago. It is that your church, in likeness of many, many others have come to me, as if in coercion, in their attempts to have me claim their truth is the correct truth. As the highly spiritual recognize and know who I am. And they believe so fully in solely their way, that they wish the giver of truth in the last days, to state their truth is but the only truth. AND IT ISN’T! It is that upon my entrance into your temple for the very first time, your leaders would have me praying before your young who are entering the temple for their first time. It is that your leaders chose new missionaries witnessing their first baptism, to witness mine. And an entire crowd had stood before me, when I hoped for but a handful. It is that your president was selected into office on my birthdate. And yet it is your priesthood who can’t even follow the rules of heaven instead your temples. Offering that boundaries be crossed for the remainder of your temple to be seen, by one who by your laws is in worthy? How is it that the newly one in your ways must guide your leaders, having the strength to abstain from such things by the action of saying “no” to such things as crossing boundaries that are not to be crossed! How is it that your leaders are not strong enough to uphold even the smallest and simplest of temple rules?

    And by your standards, you think such people belong in heaven? Could it potentially be that your church has totally missed the meaning of “Obedience and Freedom”

    Surely! It is time for you to look at reality, instead of this perfect impression you place before the crowd that is filled with lies.

    And yet, you continue to listen to an anarchist who is saying the same things that the church leaders do – only in a different way. Same message. Different words.

    Yet, you don’t take offense to the word “Anarchy”? Is their Anarchy in Gods kingdom?

    That, right there, should be your clue…

    Truth is not judgement. It is simply truth.

    WAKE UP!


  52. I could say alot, lot more to fully help you understand…

    However, Heavenly Father literally has told me not to. Not this place. Not at this time.

    He told me to take down the site, for it is not His will. He understands my desire to do His will. However, it has to be His way and not mine. Not in this place. Not at this time.
    Not on the internet. My repentance was said and done upon His request of such of things.

    No place on the internet is where you are going to find the absolute, Godly truth.

    What I can say, as your scriptures have…

    IT IS ALREADY IN YOUR HEART. And, you need no one else to guide you.

    Start living, instead of listening to everything surrounding. Hasn’t the ways of the world proven itself enough? MEN ultimately seek profit for their works. In every single church, in every single time – it has been for the works of men and their profit.

    And this site has even tried to start such a thing.


    Gods works are free.

    love always

  53. If you miss the target by one degree you still missed, The Lords course is one eternal round. The seals are opened you will have no excuse the fulness has been given to man. It is an easy thing to be a foolish virgin. You must do something better than the program you arived here with, any one can do justice to their inherit program it takes a real saint to supersede it . Yea fasting, prayer and supplication, stick your neck out a litttle no one was ever condemned for believeing too much. Don’t be so prudent you have this one great chance to make it happen! If you don’t stick your neck out a little your talents will remain buried. Imagination is more real than than your perceived reality, like Troy said the King has no clothes on! Out of the mouth of babes, babes haven’t learned to be prudent. Pull back the vail of deception, in the day of your peace you esteemed lightly His council soon out of necessity you shall feel after Him. Search the scriptures for in them you think you have eternal ife and as a man thinketh so he is, is it not also written in your law that I said ye are Gods to whom the word of God cometh and the scripture can not be broken! The power is in you wherein you are agents unto your self and in as much as men do good they shall in no wise lose their reward! The Lord has complete confidence in you to speak in his name D&C 1: 20 & 64:37-40 & 68: 3-4 don’t let any man hold you down spiritually this is your time to shine for after this day cometh the day of darkness wherein no labor can be performed. Ask questions your testimony can handle it just because men fall doesn’t mean the Church isn’t true and faithful ,it shall be here when the Lord comes but will you? All things shall be shaken and that which remains shall be eternal, the axe is laid to the roots of the tree shall you retain your root and branch? Bring forth fruit which shall remain, meet for your Father’s Kingdom! The grace of God is Heavenly Knowledge no man can be saved in ignorance , men are saved only as fast as they obtain knowledge. Soon there shall be no place to hide for their covering shall not cover them, their bed shall be to short and their covenant of death shall be disanulled, they shall understand the report! Fear God more than man if they have no answers then where is the pure knowledge or is there just hypocracy? isn’t this the gospel of truth doesn’t the truth shine brightest against a back drop of darkness? Of course it does, they grieve the spirit and the heavens are withdrawn. The weak things of the earth shall come forth and thrash them by the power of the spirit! This is you the humble and meek which shall inheirt the earth. THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD CALLS FROM THE WILDERNESS ARE YOU LISTENING? Amen

  54. IAM that IAM the great IAM princple a self existant being self sustaining through out the eternities. I think therefore IAM , I think eternal princples IAM eternal principles I bring forth eternal princples I bring forth Men yea men of God I bring forth. The great Jehovah Said I gave men the power to become the Sons of God,the only ones I respect are the Sons of God. All others are actors they do not supersede their program that they received from the pre-existence, men of God flex their spiritual dynamics the rest listen to their file leaders, yea magnify your priest hood light magnified seven times is gold. God didn’t give you his power to be a reed blowing in the wind are you his warriors yea His young warriors and His aged warriors. Your God conciousness is your key gird up your loins cease from your loud laughter serve God with all your heart might mind and strength cast away all of your idle thoughts fast and pray often listen to that small still voice it will lead you in all things. Remember the first keys of the priesthood gentleness, kindness, meekness, patience, temperance and love unfeigned. And you shall not be unfruitfull in the knowledge of the Lord. Amen

  55. Good Job Thornton.


    Keep going.

    In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen

  56. The Lord was speaking to two of the great I AM last night.

    Thank you for your words Thornton. They are a confirmation to me that the spirit of the Father was telling us both the same thing.

    This is what He said to me last night:

    “For if a babe were mine, to be had amidst the world of heathens; would it be that I suffer her to condemnation of their kind? Or would it be that I would fortify ever step she took, that her life might be lived according the design we agreed upon before the entrance to earth? If My love was that for the purpose of your life, how would it be that you could deny my existence?

    Thy path is paved with opportunity of the highest most holy places. My doors are open that you would come hither unto me. For such sweetness in a sweetened whole of an eternal being has come to fruition. It is that you are primed for the greatness born in eternity and upon open designation between our willingness. Live that you might live, and I will love thee like no other to the bitter ends. Fly like that amidst heavens wings, a soar of magnitude this world has waited an eternity for, that you might fly. For you are my greatness lived within, with the power of healing upon your fingertips. It is that the world has waited long enough. Let us reveal unto them the trueness of your open heart. That the heavens of love may be seen as born, and no soul can not deny it.”

    ‘How Father? I do not know where to begin. I do not know if my heart is confused. I do not k’

    “You do know of the things which grieve this world. It’s uncertainty. It’s lawful irregularity of whole iniquity.

    Yet I tell you this. In as much as you harken unto the words of my spirit, so shall the world come alive again. Born of the purest spirit yet. Every languishing thing among the whole, will disparage itself no more. Every mighty thing of which the great I AM has prophesied will come to pass. The weak will fall, that the spirit of will remain, born in constatives.

    Go to sleep my dearest love. You are tired.”

    God is in every heart!


    love always

  57. Truthseeker,

    you need to know that I am the one that already confounded the Father of the New Age Church, through the spirit of Christ.

    My purpose here is to wake you up before complete darkness comes.

    The whole purpose of this, is that you may begin to believe in yourself. For Christ lives in you! Yet do it through love, instead of condemnation. As that which you give you receive equally. Especially in darkness… so prepare yourselves to look for the goodness within you!

    I believe the message has been delivered clearly.

    Be well on your journeys. As I prepare for mine to fight the darkness further while complete darkness is here. It is that there will be a fight in the darkness, confounding the darkened spirit. He has already visited me, and he was not very happy when he could not overcome me. He did not like it when I stated to him that I would heal him.

    While in darkness, never lose your hope. Never lose your sense about you no matter how incapable you feel! Keep looking higher.

    Peace be with you. It is time to continue to further prepare myself. Two more years to go. In this, these waters are not my source of uplifting.

    love always

  58. Very Good Article. The point you mention of our replacing our Knowing God with good works & equating that to our being in good favor with God seems to be exactly where we BEGAN going wrong.

    It seems that it has now morphed into things more serious than that to still Include that.

    I’m seeing more & more new age manutia entering the Doctrinal understanding of the Saints. And none of it is based on True Doctrine.

    Somehow many members are “Imagining” what we are all about as opposed to gaining an understanding of that through the Scriptures & Prayer.

    More & more distorted ideas are aopted through outside philisophical sources as replacing what is True and our Doctrine becomes nothing more than Lifeless Oppinion.

    I am the First to admit I search ALL secondary sources of truth, but it’s only in my firm understanding of the Doctrines given to us by the Lord’s Prophets of old & including Joseph Smith, that I am able to weed error from among the truth and use it to my benefit.

    It seems that Original Doctrine which is never changing must be too boring & it’s slowly being replaced with these outside sources as the PRIMARY source of truth.

    Some times I here the most unsound Doctrinal remarks come from the mouths of very well educated members. Maybe THAT’S one of the problems. More & more members are geetting SO SMART that God’s Old Doctrines seem a bit antiquated.

    What ever happened to a Good Ol’ Heart felt Testimony that I “KNOW” God lives because I “FEEL IT” in my Heart & He ansewers my Prayers.

    I don’t see much of the “FEELING” God in our Hearts anymore. Our feelings for Him have been reduced to arguments over Doctrine.

    Don’t get me wrong….The Doctrines MUST be correct. But the mear fact that that topic has become such a viseral part of our discussions about God, it has taken so much away fom just FEELING our Love for Him.

    The last time I can remember crying over someones Testimony was because they went 15 minutes past the allotted time because what they had to say was SO IMORTANT……TO “THEM”….

    Hardly ANY of it has to do with the Lord anymore….It’s ME, ME, ME…….

    And I think that attitude is also reflected in the Service we give now days as a corporate group. It’s… “LOOK WHAT WE HAVE DONE”…”HOW GREAT WE ARE FOR DOING SUCH WONDERFUL THINGS”.

    It makes me want to puke sometimes & it can be very embarrassing when others are able to SEE THROUGH it all, knowing that we are Representing the Lord in this manner.

    I once read a piece that mentioned our Worship of the Instiution of the Church itself & it’s “Noble” Leaders. The VEHICLE to our destination BECOMES the destination.

    The subtleness of all these things creeping in slowly over time, makes it hard to detect until you hit these WAYMARKS of drifting that just sort of jump out at you.

    The same trends can be observed in our Politics of this Nation.

    With the passage of this recent Health Care Bill, it has ALL OF A SUDDEN become QUITE SERIOUS to us. Yet there have always been those few Voices who told us these things were coming.

    By the time the average person is ready to wake up & take a stand….IT’S TOO LATE !

    When it comes to the AWAKENING among Church members to the aweful state we have come to, the Rude Awakening will be even MORE pronounced because of the False sense of RELIGIOUS Security we have been lulled into caused by “DOGS WHO DON’T BARK”, and our own UNDESIRE to know God for OURSELVES as individuals.

    The Silent Barks become Music to our ears….

    We become Tone Deaf to hearing God’s Voices Warning us because THOSE SMALL Voices are NOT to be listened to but rather the BIG VOICES who represent us.

    I STILL Trust in those small Brave Voices who are not intimidated by those Large Voices.

    Not only have those Large Voices committed Outright Sins of Commission, they have covered the Whole Gambet of methods by which we CAN Sin by including the Sins of Omission by NOT BARKING out the Alarm. But then again….What Dog would be FOOL enough to Bark at Himself ?

  59. I have commited far more sins that I have had to repent of than most people have. But I have ALWAYS realized they WERE sins & always felt bad over them. If the average GA knew what I had done, even though I repented of these things, I would NOT be found worthy to excell to their level.

    I’ve been made to Feel this way by members of lesser station than they. Yet they BOTH have a common Spiritual disease…..Pride. The ONE DISEASE that there is almost NO CHANCE of curing. Because it is the ONE & ONLY sin that Denies ITSELF. So therefore it can not exist…

    But here’s the Good News…The WORSE this gets….The CLOSER it becomes to being Opperated on by God who does NOT Deniy these things, but has the Power to Correct it once it appears that this Cancer is about to Destroy the Righteous Body.

    And I think that ASSESMENT is not far off, given what we can Openly see happening to our Federal Constitution right now & knowing that these trends move hand & hand In & Out of the Lord’s Church.

    The Brethren are a Little more Descrete in their STOMPING on the Lord’s Constitution of His Church, but rest assured that they are keeping pace with the Feds. So Relief should be on the way Soon.

  60. Oh, By the way…..Our Leaders do NOT represent us as they say they do.

    When the Veil was rent upon the Saviors Death, we no Longer needed anyone to Represent us such as was the ancient purpose of the Priest.

    We became our won Priest.

    So WHY do I often here of our Leaders being refered to as our Representitives ? WE should represent OURSELVES before God….They should just be leading the way…By THAT example.

  61. The Tangled little strands of deciet designed to comoflage the construction of the Web to ensnare us in the Church & in Politics, are about to give way to Exposing the BIG LIE. that Formed from those little strands……A WEB OF DECIET.

    This LIE being exposed will first manafest itself in the Lord’s Church. It will soon be followed by our Government’s Traitors to this Nation Exposing themselves OPENLY, thinking the time has come to come out from hiding like cowards. Yet what will happen, is that once they DO that, GOD will expose them for who they REALLY ARE. and NOT who they “THINK” they are…

    But that exposure of them by God will occur AFTER our Nation is Sacked by an outside Enemy the Lord uses to cause this Nation to Pay for it’s Sin because “We The Poeple” were suposed to be our Government and we chose NOT TO.

    And this same pattern will unfold in the Church.

    Already, you hear people of the Democratic Party using the word Socialism to openly describe their own policies, when just a few months ago, that term was never addmitted to.

    The SILENCE from the Brotheren on that topic speaks VOLUMES in regard to that…Another one of those Barkless Warnings…..

    Remember…..Our Government Officials for the most part, are Corrupt & they KNOW IT, but make every attempt to conceal it.

    But our Church Leaders for the most part, do not even KNOW they have corrupted the Lord’s Church because it is BLINDING PRIDE in THEMSELVES that drives them. It’s concealment from us is far more camoflaged because of that and even more serious.

    The Feds are LESS Guilty of Violating Sacred Laws than our own People are & yet we hold OURSELVES as the Light to the Nations…..Hypocracy abounds….

  62. Good stuff Rob, it is obvious to me you have the Holy Ghost as your constant companion. I thought I would pass on just a few things that I thought would be interesting to some of you. I think that I have gotten a handle on a tool of prophecy, speaking of the solar and lunar eclipses. june 26,2110 a partial lunar eclipse that will be visible in the America’s and the middle east (Israel) this is ment for the Israelites in the America’s and in Israel. A continued seperation of Israelites from Babylon and the continued slide of the wicked gentile systems of monetary, commerce, religion, government etc. July 11th,2010 a total solar eclipse the third in three years on this exact day of the Jewish calendar, Rosh Chodesh. July 22nd 2009 the most recent of these solar eclipses there was a collapse of the electromagnetic field around the earth. This allows the photons (light) of the photon belt to emerse the earth and her inhabitants. July 11th, there will be an additional out pouring of the spirit of God and a severe blow to the gentile nations especially America. This total solar eclipse shall only be visible in the Antartic. Dec. 21st,2010 a total lunar eclipse on winter soltice visible almost exclusively to only No. America, the true Israelites in America shall now rise with healing in their wings to set things in order amongst great conflicts. The exposure of the earth to the celestial events, photons, solar flares, galactic pulsars brings to pass the ascension for the righteous, it shall resonate with the kingdom within you. The priesthood of God shall be empowered from on high. All pretenders to the throne will be detected for they shall have no glory. The Kindom wthin you are those deep spiritual convictions of eternal principles, here is wisdom, seal , expand your testimony to all eternal principles castaway from your selves falsehoods, lies and deceptions. Have the Holy Ghost as your constant companion.

Comments RSS

Leave a Reply

Please log in using one of these methods to post your comment: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s