For background on this post, see Introducing a new bartering currency—the first coin: 1/2 Troy oz pure silver .999 fine.
I got my first coins yesterday and thought I’d take some pictures. I’ll update this post with pictures of all the various sizes, as they are made. Feel free to download and use the pictures to tell people about the currency.
1/2-oz Troy, .999 Fine Silver
There was a mistake made to the dies. The Collector’s Mint only deals with collector’s items, so when the die-maker at the American National Mint got the order to make the dies and read “Brilliant Uncirculated” (BU) condition on the order sheet, he figured that it must be wrong and made the dies for “Proof” condition, instead. The first strike run was for 500 coins. However, after they struck the first 134 coins, they had to wait a few more days before striking the rest because not all of the needed planchets had arrived, so they shipped out the 134 coins to The Collector’s Mint. When The Collector’s Mint got the coins and saw that they were in “Proof” condition, they ordered the dies fixed so that all subsequent coins would be in “Brilliant Uncirculated” condition. The dies now only produce coins in BU condition. (The difference between Proof and BU condition is that the Proof coins have a mirrored finish and frosted letters, while BU is a non-numismatic bullion coin.) It was never the intention to produce numismatic coins, but apparently there are now 134 of them. The following pictures are of Proof condition coins.
Obverse of a Proof Condition Silver 1/2-oz Bartering Currency Coin - Contrast Increased
Reverse of a Proof Condition Silver 1/2-oz Bartering Currency Coin - Contrast Increased
A Stack of Proof Condition Silver 1/2-oz Bartering Currency Coins
A Pile of Proof Condition Silver 1/2-oz Bartering Currency Coins
Obverse Close-up of a Pile of Proof Condition Silver 1/2-oz Bartering Currency Coins
Reverse Close-up of a Pile of Proof Condition Silver 1/2-oz Bartering Currency Coins
More to come later…
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24 Comments
LDS Anarchy 
As you can see, I’ve added some more pics.
Anarchist-
Just out of curiosity, have you had a good response to the coins? Do you plan on rolling out more sizes soon?
PallasAthena,
So far, 700 coins have been struck. I do not know how many orders are pending at this time. People deal directly with the mint. However, I do show the coins to everyone I come in contact with and routinely give out the contact info to The Collector’s Mint. There is definitely interest, though I do not know yet what level of action is taken on that interest. Concerning new sizes, I’m waiting to see more orders before I purchase more die sizes.
Btw, for people visiting this post who know nothing of the currency, you can get these coins by contacting:
The Collector’s Mint
Tarzana, CA (Los Angeles area)
(818) 609-7666
moneyco1@aol.com
Richard Nelson is the man in charge and Nancy is his secretary.
[November 6, 2010 Update: It is now possible to purchase a roll of 25 coins, instead of having to strike 100 or more coins.]
I’ve updated the pics a bit. I took away the digital camera pics I snapped, as well as the obverse and reverse pics snapped by the pro photographer and replaced them with corrected pro pics (they are now centered) that have their contrast increased to better show the lettering.
Also, the previous comment I wrote had the telephone number wrong. I’ve now corrected that, too.
Next Monday I’ll be getting a supply of Brilliant Uncirculated (BU) condition coins and the professional photographer will be taking pictures of them. I’ll upload those when I have them. Feel free to use what I have in this post, in the meantime.
Anarchist-
After reading all this silver currency project you have undertaken, I expected to see dozens of posts of criticism and skepticism. It was a shock to see almost no posts reflecting my thoughts and questions on the matter. It seems you have really developed quite the unquestionable fanbase here, so I guess I’ll have to ask for myself.
First of all, it always surprises me at how often you talk about how the spirit has revealed to you or directed you in seemingly non-stop fashion. I am not here to question your spirituality or motives, but more so try to understand it. I guess you could say that I’m jealous, because I never seem to recognize the spirit’s promptings and influence in my life until after the fact. It’s more like I just do what I do and then realize later that what happened was the Lord’s hand guiding my path.
You, however, make bold prophecies and predictions constantly based on insight into the scriptures that I can only dream of having. Now whether these predictions and prophecies are true and come to pass is a different matter.
I have always found this blog and comments as an exceptional read and harmless way for people to gather and discuss ideas that would be taboo in Sunday school. The minute this blog became a way for you to strike a profit on the basis of spiritual things is when things stop jiving for me. I’m as capitalistic and all for making money as the next guy, but there are lines I won’t cross. I just have some questions I’d like to see answered.
Do you believe that the United States will inevitably fail and break into numerous tribes in a similar fashion that Russian professor has boldly declared many times over the past few months?
If so, do you believe that you have been called by God to establish a currency for the post US anarchy tribes? Or are you just simply investing in precious metals and branding them as your own (that you are selling for a profit)?
If the monetary system was to be established for Zion, would God not have had the Prophet make the calling himself? Does God not have a house of order and and system for accomplishing his tasks under the Prophet? Is our current Prophet Thomas S. Monson a true Prophet of God?
I just simply want to understand your beliefs and responses to figure out why and what you are doing.
dfour asked,
My answers:
1. I believe that the United States will be broken up as a government and we will be brought into tribal anarchy. Whether the Russian got it right in his predictions on how the break-up will look remains to be seen.
2. The Lord gave me a mission to create this currency now. The ultimate purpose of it hasn’t been revealed to me.
3. I do not invest in precious metals because I am against it. I look upon silver and gold in coined form as money, not as investment.
4.
Hopefully that answers your question.
5. See the previous answer. The prophet is not the be-all and do-all.
6. I’m not sure whether you are asking me if I believe that President Monson is a true prophet of God, or if you are asking me if I’ve received revelation that he is one. Nor am I sure of the relevance of that question to the discussion on hand. But, I will assume that you are asking if I’ve received revelation that President Monson is a prophet of God. No, I haven’t. I’ve received revelation that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, that Spencer W. Kimball was a prophet and that Ezra Taft Benson was a prophet. Then I stopped asking God each time a new President of the Church was called. So, I have received no revelation that Howard W. Hunter, Gordon B. Hinckley or Thomas S. Monson were prophets of God. Perhaps a scripture will clarify my beliefs for you:
So, I’ve gotten beyond the worship of a prophet and just rely upon what the Spirit tells me.
Thanks for the great answers. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to trip you up or damn you in any way, quite the contrary actually. We have quite a bit in common.
With that out of the way, I have more questions, and I’m sorry if they have nothing to do with this post, but I don’t know where else to discuss it. Also,
Why did you stop praying about the Prophets? Are you an upstanding active member of the church? Do you hold a calling? Do you attend church every week? I guess what I’m asking is, what is your current opinion on the church?
This just all kind of comes back to thoughts that I have about the church. I remember on my mission telling inactive members who were frustrated about something about the church that “the church is perfect, the members are not.” Is the church perfect with only imperfect members? I don’t even know what that statement is supposed to mean…
I find your statement on the worship of a prophet interesting. Obviously the saints tend to rely on the council of the prophet over nurturing their own ability to listen to the spirit. Who’s fault is this? They are taught all their lives to “Follow the Prophet!” What if Thomas S. Monson is not a true prophet of God? Is that even possible? Would God let a false prophet infiltrate the office of President of the Church? I’m curious to your thoughts on this.
dfour asked,
More answers to dfour’s questions: 1. It no longer became important whether the Presidents of the Church were prophets or not. The important thing was that I was a prophet, not that they were prophets. If they have the spirit of prophecy and revelation, but I don’t, that doesn’t help me. The Presidents don’t really prophesy, at least, not that I am aware of. They obviously possess the testimony of Jesus, which is the spirit of prophecy and revelation, but do they possess the gift to prophesy? You’ll have to answer that question yourself. What I do know is that they possess the keys of the kingdom and are high priests. They function more as Presidents of the High Priesthood than as prophets. That is sufficient for me, for now. 2. Yes, I am an upstanding, active member of the church. 3. Yes, I attend church every week. (This is beginning to sound like a temple recommend interview.) 4. My current opinion of the church? Well, the church is currently in the gospel net, which takes in all kinds of fish in all states of spirituality, or lack thereof. Some of the bad fish is thrown out from time to time, but largely, we are in an unsanctified state. But the church will be cleansed and the hypocrites (top to bottom) will be removed from it and it will become sanctified and gathered to lands of inheritance. I’m not sure if that answers your question.
Concerning the statement “the church is perfect, the member are not,” I recommend that you read the post, What does the phrase “only true and living church” mean?
Lastly, in response to
The Lord works on the principle of agency. He won’t force anyone to be good. In the Savior’s parable, the hand is a brother of the church, and the foot is he that is thy standard, by whom thou walkest, in other words, whoever we are looking to as our example, and the eye is him that is appointed to watch over thee to show thee light, in other words, our church leaders. So, none are infallible in the church and all can transgress and fall and so we all should do as the Savior says and “stand or fall, by himself, and not for another; or not trusting another.”
Anarchist-
Congrats on your upcoming 100,000 hits milestone. It seems like perhaps you should do something to celebrate… like maybe sending each of your viewers a silver bartering coin.
I’ll be watching for it.
D&C107:40 The order of this priesthood was confirmed to be handed down from father to son, and rightly belongs to the literal descendents of the chosen seed, to whom the promises were made. D&C 86:8 Therefore thus saith the Lord unto you, with whom the priesthood hath continued through the lineage of your fathers-9 For ye are lawful heirs, according to the flesh, and have been hid from the world with Christ in God-10 Therefore your life and the prieshood have remained, and must needs remain through you and your lineage until the restoration of all things spoken by the mouths of all the holy prophets since the world began. Alma 40:21——until the time which is appointed of God that the dead shall come forth, and be reunited, both soul and body and be brought to stand before God, and be judged according to their works.22 Yea this bringeth about the restoration of those things of which has been spoken by the mouths of the prophets.Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which was before preached unto you:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the the world began. D&C85:11 And they who are of the High Priesthood, whos names are not found to be written in the book of the law, or that are found to have apostatized, or to have been cut off from the church, as well as the lesser priesthood, or the members, in that day shall not find an inheritence among the saints of the most High; 12 Therefore, it shall be done unto them as unto the children of the priest, as will be found recorded in the second chapter and sixty-first and second verses of Ezra. Ezra 2:61 And of the children of the priests: the children of Habaiah, the children of Koz, the children of Barzillai; which took a wife of the daughters of Barzillai the Gileadite, and was called after their name; 62 These sought their register among those that were reckoned by genealogy, but they were not found: therefore were they, as polluted, put from the priesthood. Zechariah 14:20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses,HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the Lord’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar.21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts. Are you Watching now? sincerely Brand Nu
A brief lesson on our monetary system; true wealth (goods & sevices) comes from the production of human beings.Money is a medium of exchange for true wealth. Money can be anything we believe or have faith in. Monetizing; to keep up with our progressive economy congress petitions the federal reserve (private bank w/ secret stock holders) for x amount of money (paper or specie ) the fed. issues a bond, for x amount of money, congress gurantees it by the American tax payer. Only specie money, or federal reserve notes or designated coins are legal tender. The fed owns the medium of exchange you own the true wealth that you exchange for it, rip a currency in half and you can be prosecuted for destroying gov. property! When the fed authorizes the issuance of more currency or computer entries it is contingent that it be paid back at the face value of the denomination or computer entry! The fed has no risk they put up nothing they create debt out of thin air, gee all I really wanted was a medium of exhange for goods and services. The fed only accepts payment for debt in gold or silver, now you know why it used to be illegal to have more than 2oz. of gold in your possesion, it started with the paying off of the war debt gee I thought we borrowed from our selves to fight the war! I guess the fed really isn’t American after all! It all has to be paid back with interest to the fed, when we give it all back we will have to coutnerfit the interest or borrow more to pay off the interest! And we would literaly be left without a medium of exchange. The united order is looking better all the time, why was it that Heber j. Grant took the Mormons off the united order under the direction of the fed?Our bank roll has finally began to run out! The residual precious metals before the 16th amendment was instituted ( itwasn’t ratified by one single state) has run out, the minning of precious metals is being shut down by the greenies. When purchasing power of gold rises to the point to mine it at a profit it comes out of the ground as solvent money(no debt incurred) it is exchanged at the federal gold exchange for monetary computer entries or cash! Because of certain fiscal changes in the 90s (giving of loans to anyone) there was unprescented growth followed by a bust ( they still wan’t it returned to them) this dries up the supply of money, no money no production! Minning can no longer keep up with the incurred debt! The fed takes the gold and silver buys up armies and navies wages blood and destruction over the face of the earth, gee I guess ole Joe Smith had it right after all. Is any one watching? would you like to know the rest of the story? My friend Paul harvey told me to say that ! Gee thanks Paul!I thought you were dead.
Why have you polluted the holy church of God? The laborer in zion shall perish if he laborers for money. You now have the poor among you. D&C78:5 That you may be equal in the bonds of heavenly things, yea and earthly things also, for the obtaining of heavenly things.6 For if yea are not equal in earthly things ye cannot be equal in obtaining heavenly things; What has all your precious stocks and bonds done for you ? All of your riches has made you like the Nephites of old puffed up. In the near future the united order shall be the only viable alternative. The economy of the U.S. is on the verge of total collapse the stimulus package is a very short term solution. Soon the visions of John Taylor will come to pass, he saw gold piled up in the streets of Zion like sand but a black cat will be more valuable than a bushel of gold. why ? because like he said you can eat the cat! I will explain this to you, during the comeing economic collapse theire will be a new and great war at this time the relief mine will finally come in providing jobs, minting and manufactureing Zion will now begin to fulfill her destiny. Every one that will not lift a sword against there neighbor will have to flee to Zion for she will be the only one that will not be at war. The population of Zion will swell so fast that we shall be on the verge of starvation there will be a natural gravitation to the united order the gold will no longer be needed as medium of exchange of goods and services it will be piled up in the streets to pave them with, yea even streets of gold! At this time the whole earth shall be in commotion. The Maji could read the signs in the heavens and so can I, There was a total solar eclipse on the 2nd of Ave on the jewish lunar calendar of last year there will be another n the 1st of Ave this year and another on the 1st of Ave next year. This an extremely rare occurance and signals the beginning of the tribulations for the gentiles. The long period of the consumption decreed on Israel that Daniel prophesied was up in 1844, Joseph sent Orson Hyde to dedicate Palestine for the return of the Jews in 1843, this gentile government killed Joseph the next year signaling that the times of the gentiles were begining to be over and the times of jews or the house of Israel was begining. (Read D&C45) The first shall be last and the last shall be first, first to the gentiles and then to the jews. In 1948 a nation was born in a day (Israel) the times of the gentiles are now officially over. The Mormon Church is soon to changed from a gentile church to be a church where the entire leadership will be of the blood of Joseph, the remanant shall rise to that exalted calling assisted by Ephraim. This will be the setting order. This a very brief oveview of a very large window of events. Sincerely Brand NU
This is old news, may be you have seen it:
New Currencies
Nope, haven’t seen it. (You forgot to include the link…)
Hm, not sure what happened…
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/5126185/Struggling-US-towns-print-their-own-currency.html
http://www.chadstoolbox.com has just decided to give 15% off to anyone who pays for their order with gold or silver
pallasathena, how did you find this out? I don’t see any sign on their page that they accept silver and gold. Did you just ask them about it?
Lds Anarchist,
I have some questions about silver How can I get in contact with you
Sorry for the delayed response. I am on the mailing list for Chad’s Toolbox and received an email that had a tagline on the bottom stating as such and saying “contact us for more information”
According to this article, it looks like we can expect precious metals prices to start climbing, especially silver.
I just got another email, this is a direct quote from the bottom of the email
“Real Money? – Save 15%
You may now use online checkout to save 15% on any order by sending in silver or gold for payment.”
LDS Anarchist,
Thanks for the comment and the link over at Pure Mormonism. I was aware of the barter coins, but for some reason did not know you were the guy behind them.
22 years ago, after moving to Sacramento, we were broke and didn’t have any FRN’s to pay tithing with. I did, however, have a stash of silver coins, so I offered some of them to the bishop in payment. He looked at me as if I was from the moon.
Bottom line, I got a pass. The bishop, not realizing silver WAS money, declared that since I didn’t have any money at this time, I could just resume paying tithing when I could afford to. He even wrote us up a food order from the Bishop’s Storehouse to sustain us until I could get a few paychecks under my belt.
And that was the first time I didn’t throw away my valuable real money to a corporation that would have just squandered it.
BTW, Anarchist, I’m a frequent visitor to this site. There are so many excellent entries that I simply dip in at random and enjoy many of your amazing and brilliant articles.
Thanks again for weighing in on my blog.
Rock Waterman
PureMormonism.blogspot.com
Rock, thanks for the kind comments and visit. FWIW, I also read and very much enjoy your own blog posts.
You mentioning the bishop’s pass on tithing brings to mind something one of my bishops told me once. He was a lawyer by profession and said that as tithing is to be paid annually, it only deals with the year on hand. So, when asked the question, “Are you a full tithe payer?” the question only concerns the present year, not previous years. It is not, “Were you a full tithe payer?” If, during any year, the end of the year comes and we have not paid a full tithe, we have not complied for that year. When January 1st comes around, our “tithing account” resets back to zero (no debts) and we can start paying a full tithe for the new year we are in.
I forget why he told me this. I think it may be because one of us mentioned that often people who haven’t paid a full tithe by the end of the year feel that they must pay back to the Lord what they owed during that year. They keep an account of their “debt” to the Lord and overburden themselves unnecessarily. This bishop said that he always counseled members to simply repent, and come January 1st, start the new tithing year with a clean slate, assessing the tithing required only from January 1st to December 31st of the year that they are currently in.
Your bishop’s reluctance (and refusal) to accept silver can be bypassed by paying anonymously. I happen to know that when a bishopric receives silver anonymously, it throws a wrench in the church financial works. They can’t deposit the silver in a bank and they can’t send it back to the person because they don’t know who sent it, so what do they do with it? I would imagine that under these circumstances they would be counseled by Salt Lake to take it to a coin shop and sell it to convert it into dollars. But in the meantime, how would they store it? (My understanding is that tithing moneys are deposited into the Church bank account asap, keeping everyone honest. If one of the bishopric stored the silver at his home, that opens the door to temptation. If they keep it at the church building, that might also be problematic.)
In my mind, paying tithing anonymously in silver (or gold) can accomplish a host of good works. For example, if one is concerned about the corporate nature of the Church and doesn’t want the money sent to Salt Lake, but would rather have it stay locally, a simple solution would be to anonymously fill out a tithing slip and check off all the types of contributions you want to give to, but without specifying how much of any of the silver goes where. Operating in this manner, the bishopric cannot know how much is for tithing, how much is for fast offerings, how much is for the temple fund, humanitarian efforts, Book of Mormon fund, etc. So, when the silver is converted into dollars, I would think the money would have to remain in the ward it was sent to, to be used as the bishopric decides, according to the needs of the congregation.
With a sufficient number of LDS giving their contributions anonymously in this way, the Lord’s commandments are still complied with while causing certain Babylonian aspects that have crept into the church to suffer. It would not need very many people from each ward contributing anonymously in silver to start Salt Lake worrying. I, acting alone, have caused bishoprics to pull their hair out in frustration over my anonymous silver payments. Add more people to the mix and we’ll soon be hearing a First Presidency Message being read to us to stop making contributions anonymously in silver.
What How much did it cost to have these minted. I’m developing an alternative currency it is backed by silver and it would be great to have some silver coins as an easy form of backing it up. http://dca.deseretregion.com
The proof coins were the first batch that came off and back then (in 2008/9) the striking fee was $2.00 a coin. Now I think the striking fee has risen to $2.75 a coin, but I’m still waiting to hear back from the mint to know what the current quotes are. I chose this mint for a variety of reasons: 1st, because they have the capability of producing every coin size that I wanted and 2ndly, because I felt impressed to choose them, but they are not the cheapest mint to strike coins. If you want to strike one ounce coins only, it might be best to go with a less expensive mint. If you want to produce very small or very large coins or exceptionally detailed and difficult to strike coins, for collections, then this mint is one of the best private mints around.