Slim pickings is not the problem with the single adult program: FAT women are

At least, that was the opinion of a single adult male I polled a few months back.

Last year, an issue of the Ensign (Aug. 2008 ) had several articles addressing how to cope with being a young single adult in the church. On the cover was a lovely lady, who appeared to be fit as a fiddle. When I had the opportunity to talk to a single adult male friend of mine who has been in that program for, I believe, over a decade now, I mentioned these Ensign articles to him. His first response was that the young lady on the front was quite the looker. He had not had the opportunity to read what the articles inside said, so I gave him my synopsis, as I had read them: coping skills for extended singleness.

I then asked him what his assessment of the problems of the single adult program was. I didn’t expect the answers I got. His first response was “un-Christlike men” behaving badly. Apparently, there are a lot of doggish men out there mistreating the women and taking advantage of them. However, his next listed item was FAT WOMEN.

Now, I’ve been out of the single scene for years now, and I never was a part of the single adult program, nor did I do much with the young single adults. I attended only occasional young single adult activities, which, although the women were young and often fit and pretty, I found them mostly immature and the conversations inane and shallow. So, I would sometimes crash the older singles, the single adult activities, just for some interesting conversations. Here I found the women to be much more mature, and also quite fat.

[Side note: I didn’t meet my wife through either of these programs, thank the Lord, in case you were wondering.]

These experiences left an impression upon me, so much so that whenever my friend would tell me of a new date he went on, my first question wasn’t, “What was she like?” but, “How fat was she?” And as he related the thick and thin of it to me, it seemed that every subsequent date was more of a woman (as in poundage) than the previous one.

It had been a long while since we had talked about his dating experiences. I’ve been really occupied with my married life, with my wife and children and he’s been busy doing his things, too. So, his mentioning of the fatness of the single adult women brought all those old impressions back, and all the old images of those single adult women I had met those years ago, images of chubbiness that I’d like to forget, but which came back into my mind to occupy my thoughts like so many puffy marshmallows stuffed in and pushing everything else out.

Luckily, at least, I have forgotten all the code words I used to know, all of which meant various grades of obesity. You know, like if my friend said his date was a “sweet spirit,” it meant she was obese, etc.

So now I wonder and ask you, dear reader, especially the single adult visitor, is my friend correct in his assessment? Do the single adult women of the church predominantly consist of fat women, from chunky, to “pleasantly plump” to grotesquely fat and obese? And are the single adult men of the church mostly perverts just looking to grope any female that will let him, whether a two-ton Tessy or not?

Again, I’m no longer part of the single scene, so my information is limited, but I’m curious to know if we have a fat women/perverted men epidemic among the single adult members of the church. Your thoughts and experiences in this area? Any solutions to these problems (assuming my friend’s assessment is correct)?

Note: this post was written months ago and left unpublished, as I decided it was too offensive.  However, reading it again today I have changed my mind.  There is a lot of controversial stuff on this blog, so is one more really going to make that big of a difference?  (No pun intended.)  Besides, February doesn’t have a post, yet, and is the month of love, etc., so I think it only appropriate to talk of the single adults of the church.

Previous Relationships article: To LDS women: beware of kissing

Complete List of Articles authored by LDS Anarchist



  1. Oh man, I cannot wait for the comments on this one! Anecdotes mean nothing, but I will say I have two sisters in this category, and one very slender and one is chubby, but not obese. I have no anecdotes about perverted, single Mormon men.

  2. Anarchist,

    After posting my last response to you on my blog I told my wife that I hope you have a sense of humor… cuz I had not detected much of one from the previous posts of yours that I have read.

    I must say that with this post you have alleviated those concerns.

    Now my concern is whether your readers have a sense of humor!

    I’ll keep watching to see.

  3. You’re not off-base. There are other factors (equally unappealing) that your friend failed to mention.

    Weirdness. There are some REALLY strange folks floating in the older-but-unmarried hinterland.

    Broke with no prospects. The forty year old guy who lives with mom and on Monday he’ll start the 31st minimum wage job he’s had since high school.

    Then you have the ones who used to be married. They either fit all of the negative categories, or they quietly look around for someone else in their situation and bolt to the temple with them before the rest of the herd figures out they were even there.

    So the guys can get mad that the girls think they are sick, broke losers….

    …and the girls can get mad that the guys think the girls are fat, desperate and uninspiring…..

    Or they can collectively stop complaining about how things ought to be and get off of their collective butts and do something about dealing with they way things ARE.

    Gals, lose the weight and you WILL gain the attention of the better “catches”.

    Guys, be a little polite, for heaven sakes GROOM yourselves properly, and stop spending all your money on sci-fi memorabilia and you might get a date with someone under a quarter ton who could turn out to actually be interested in you.

  4. sense of humor or not, i find it sad that people in a radical culture are holding these conservative and hateful views. you must realize that these things are hurtful and size issues are very painful and this only leads into self destructive spirals for many folks affected. no one says you must be attracted to a larger person but for the love of God, treat them with respect.

  5. Your initial assessment that this article is too offensive to publish was correct.

  6. Obesity in the church has been a problem for quite some time. I was at BYU when some colleagues were doing a study of Mormon lifestyles. One of the key areas was over weight women. I can not remember what exactly it said and could not find it tonight to reference, but it went something like this:

    Women and men have different needs, nothing new there. Men, when they reach that age where people begin to wonder why they are not married, begin to feel like they may have failed and start to “act the part”, people figure there must be something wrong with them or they would be married, so they start acting like something is wrong with them (not all fit in this category, some have always had something wrong with them).

    Women need comfort, food is a great source of comfort for many women, as soon as women hit thirty and are kicked out of the young single adult wards and join the family wards, and they don’t have a family, depression starts to kick in. Women are more prone to turn to food as a comfort than men are. There is a real problem with overweight 30 something single women in the church because they are in a culture that tells them something is wrong with them if they are single, and food is where they turn for solace. This starts a nasty downward spiral where they put on more weight because they are single, then they stay single because of their weight, so they put on more weight because they are single, etc.

    The study went beyond singles though to try and discover why women in the LDS church are overweight at a higher ratio than women outside the church, but that is a different topic for a different day.

    Granted these are generalizations and not all fit into this category, but it was statistically significant enough to become the focus of a large part of the research.

  7. I have had this discussion more than once with many different people. I have noticed what I thought was a higher percentage of overweight people in the church and have wondered if it was just me. I found anon’s comment interesting.

    The quote below comes from The Law of the Harvest, he mentions men may “possess other characteristics” that make them unmarriable, but doesn’t say anything about women having the same problem.

    The gender discrepancy among active members is not new, nor is it
    restricted only to international areas. Goodman and Heaton wrote in
    a 1986 article that “for every 100 LDS women in the prime marriage
    ages (20–29 years) there [were] 89 LDS men.” They further noted that
    the gender disparity among active LDS single adults in North America
    was even more out of balance: “For all singles over 30 there are 19
    active men [who attend church weekly] for every 100 active women.”
    They write that single LDS men and women are “mismatched on vital
    demographic characteristics. Single women over thirty have higher
    levels of education, occupation, and Church activity than single men.
    Marriage to an active male is demographically impossible for many
    active single females over thirty. And even when there are available
    males, they may possess other characteristics that rule them out as
    potential mates. Obviously, marriage is not a universal solution to
    singleness if the only acceptable marital option is marriage to an active
    LDS partner.”

  8. For a man, physical attractiveness is a quality that initially interests a man in a female. Using that as a base along with what PallasAthena wrote about gender discrepancy among active members it wouldn’t be that hard to reach the conclusion that the more attractive people would tend to marry quicker assuming personalities were compatible. Personality compatibility can then explain the higher percentage of “perverted men” in singles. So, between the two, it’s easy to see why the singles make up is the way that it is.

  9. In defence of the post:


  10. What are you supposed to do about the guy who doesn’t bother to bathe or use deodorant. Should we recognize that this could be a painful subject for him and any discussion of it could just cause him to get smellier out of despair for his stinky condition?

    Is it offensive to point out that he might have better results if he changed that undesirable aspect of himself? He might feel bad about someone pointing it out. But then he has the opportunity to do something about it. And if he doesn’t, then he’s soon going to have an opportunity to feel bad about it again.

  11. If single mormon women over 30 have a strong tendency to find comfort at the bottom of a pint of Ben & Jerry’s, then maybe we should be talking about this MORE instead of LESS to help them cope in healthier ways. Maybe we should put a little energy into helping them not feel like it’s the end of the world to be single to begin with.

    My sister thought she was clinically depressed and let an irresponsible doctor put her on medication. Then she started dating a guy and got married. Got happy all of a sudden. So she wasn’t “depressed” in the clinical sense, she was just sad that she wasn’t married.

    We need to deal with this stuff a little more head-on instead of in the glossy way that the glossy pages of the Ensign handle it. It may be painful and a little uncomfortable for some people, but it will ultimately improve our collective situation.

  12. …rant complete….

  13. I find the “mormons are obese” argument to be popular, but dubious. Every ranking I have ever seen puts Utah towards the bottom of national obesity statistics. See for example, here: Maybe non-mormons in Utah are just super-thin, skewing the average?

  14. I’m more inclined more towards the “guys are jerks” theory. I have known plenty of attractive young women who either aren’t married or married outside the Temple due to the fact that they were treated like dirt by returned missionaries who obviously learned nothing of value on their missions.

    Also, I don’t find excessive thinness very attractive in the opposite sex. Iit might be that LDS men need to start valuing a more feminine physique in potential eternal mates, especially given the Mormon emphasis on having children in a marriage. For women who are too thin it seems that bearing children is always a life-threatening experience. Women are supposed to be more round than men. Disclaimer: this should not be interpreted as an insult to women who are naturally thin. That is their body type. I’m just tired of worldly values of “supermodel” thinness as the ideal for women being so prominent.

    Last but not least, there is that topic that is taboo in the Church, but not on this site apparently. Could it be that monogamy (a relatively young social experiment, given that it simply hasn’t been practiced for most of human history, in spite of it’s being called “traditional” marriage) just isn’t working out? It seems that Joseph Smith might have seen that coming a few years back. Another disclaimer: I don’t claim to understand polygamy, nor am I necessarily anxious to bring it back (nor do I expect that it will be in the Church). I’m just asking questions.

  15. Joseph Owen, are you implying that the solution to the large ratio of single women to single men in the church would be solved with polygamy? As I think on that solution, it seems to me that that would open up all men as possible mates to the single women, not just the single men, helping to solve the singleness of women, but that it wouldn’t do anything to help the singleness of men, as their prospects of obtaining an LDS mate would evaporate. Faced with a choice of going with a single man “jerk” and a married, already established, already refined (by his other wives) man, I wonder if the single women would really consider the single “jerk” the best choice, despite any desire to be “wife number one”?

    But apart from polygamy, which cannot be practiced in the church, is there anything else that can solve the single adult program problems, assuming that there are problems in it?

  16. So….is it better to be single forever….or to be married to a non-member?

    (That’s where you’re trying to go, right?)

  17. jjackson, to whom are you asking the question?

  18. LDS Anarchist (and anyone else)

    If I have ever given the impression that I have solutions to all the problems we face, let me apologize and immediately set the record straight: I don’t, and I know I don’t. I was just thinking out loud (or, in this case, in print on a blog, which is what I understand blogs are for). This particular issue involves sex (I’m not good at being subtle), and sex is one of the most powerful and irrational aspects of being human. The need for food might be a slightly more powerful urge (though not always) but only under the most extreme circumstances can I even imagine it being as full of powerful and painful emotions as sex is. It is the largest obstacle that I can think of to any kind of utopian society, and I am always wary of anyone proposing fix-all solutions. LDS Anarchist certainly brings up some important concerns. Ultimately, human behavior where sex is concerned is nearly impossible to predict. I’m not advocating or opposing polygamy, I just brought it up because it is evident that monogamy certainly hasn’t solved everything any better than polygamy did.

    Anyway, jjackson, I don’t know who you are asking your question of, but I give it as my opinion that it depends on the circumstances. I would be wary of anyone giving some kind of absolute answer to that kind of question, but others are welcome to try.

    Potential humor of the title of this post aside, it does bring up some serious issues. And blaming everything on the weight of a certain demographic or gender is problematic on a number of levels. For one, there is little solid research to support it. The other is, how do you explain overweight individuals of both genders who are happily married (and yes, in many cases they were overweight before they were married) and slim individuals of both genders who are not? A more substantial question might be, how do you explain the fact that individuals of both genders who are attractive on many different levels (spiritually and intellectually as well as physically) are not married? I have yet to see anything that satisfactorily answers that question.

  19. Joseph Owen said,

    This particular issue involves sex (I’m not good at being subtle), and sex is one of the most powerful and irrational aspects of being human. The need for food might be a slightly more powerful urge (though not always) but only under the most extreme circumstances can I even imagine it being as full of powerful and painful emotions as sex is.

    I am one who has fasted nearly 35 days (see My extended fast journal) and I know that only the first three or so days of a fast are fraught with hunger pangs. After that, the urge to eat leaves, although food odors still smell good. My understanding is that abstinence will tame all urges, even the sexual urge, but you must direct that appropriated energy to other pursuits. I suppose this is one of the reasons why single adults are encouraged by their leaders to busy their lives in good works and learning.

  20. When I was at BYU a long time ago a male student wrote the following in a letter to the editor: “Want a date, lose some weight” (A female student retorted “Wanna hussle, build some muscle”). The common wisdom back then was to “look at their ankles” or “get a picture of their mother” as evidence of what the future held. My friend and I developed our own method of predicting a girls future girth. We would dance with her and see if we could feel her spine (no groping, just a flat hand on the back during a slow dance). If you could feel the vertebrae, OK. If the vertebrae were an inch down, look out (for some reason there is no fat over the vertabrae). Girl’s with sunken vertabrae we called “puddin’ backs”. We of course never mentioned this to the women we knew (I told my wife once we got married. She is not a puddin’ back).

    I think the church should use the book “Building an Affair Proof Marriage” for their marriage class (IMO it is a crummy title). It is very simple and talks about the different needs of men and women. One of the needs of a man is to have a pretty wife. Saying this is taboo, but it is true. Of course men have many short comings as well. The first need of a woman (according to the book) is affection and many men (including me) could use improvement in that area.

  21. The “need” for a pretty wife is a carnal one. It is not actually a real need.

    Maybe if we loved one another as God loves us and had true charity this wouldn’t be a problem.

    And, yes, I do understand that our bodies are temples and should be treated as such. The scriptures are pretty clear that we are to avoid “mincing and tinkling” though. So if a woman is only beautiful if she is thin, wearing makeup with a nice hairstyle, and wearing the latest fashion trend there is a BIG problem. Until men stop thinking of women as sex objects and eye candy they will never fulfill the command to become one with their wife.

    OK, now that I’m done with my rant. I really don’t have a problem with some of the views expressed here. And for the record I’m one of those annoyingly thin people so this really doesn’t strike any personal cords with me.

    But, perhaps the problem can be solved (in part) by teaching people to LOVE THEMSELVES!!!!!!! Most of these problems seem to be a manifestation of self hatred. Or, at very least, not loving yourself enough.
    We concentrate so hard on all the do’s and dont’s and how many ways you can fail to attain the Celestial Kingdom that we forget how to get there!

    Love, people, it’s all about love. =)

  22. I was married young “21”, and divorced young with custody of my infant daughter. I had heard the horror stories from friends about the singles ward, and decided not to participate. I think the fault of all religions is that they expect unrealistic things of people sometimes. I think is often overlooked that thier are a number of over weight men in the church, but they are usually found in the bishopric, and it amazes me that they all seem to be married to “cute little things”. I feel that this hole article has just amplified the fact that the church is an “inclusive” organization.

  23. I have gone to way too many LDS Single Adult Dances where by merely showing up in a nice suit, carrying my scriptures seemed to have had the “ELVIS…! Is in the HOUSE!” effect. There were always lots of obese sisters there with DESPARATION painted on their continences which is never attractive. Many wore gowns that “Hid” their fattness and wore a Flower. They were all really nice, but seemed to FEEL that I was there to be their dance partner and that I should share my lack of dancing ability with each of them in turn. Sorry. I prefer “The Babes…” At the larger Regional Dances attached to S/A conferences there was a ratio of about five hundred sisters to fifteen “DANCING…” brothers. The same brothers attended EVERY dance. MANY sister came to visit me as I sat in the foyer, wishing I was somewhere else and complained of dance partners ho “Took liberties..” I still wonder WHY so many dances are held when so few Mormons are dancers and their eternal marriages are NOT centered around dancing. The TESTIMONY MEETINGS were wildly popular and EVERYONE wanted to bear their testimony to OTHERS that were sharing their same sad plight. About an hour and a half was ALL the time allotted. I myself would rather become involved with a sister with a sweet testimony and some attractivness than a dancer. I am now “Less Active” and have no Home Teacher. No one ever notifies me of S/A activities and I assume that is because there are none. Since pioneer days adult single brothers were treated as pariahs and that attitude seems to remain in force today. I gave up counting the remark of “Why don’t you just get married..” offered by “Happliy…” married ward members. The Single Adult Program remains a disgrace in Our Lord’s church and will remain so until ONE leader is called church wide, a Single Adult church Magazine is published monthly and one LARGE world wide S/A conference is held at BYU every year. Sadly, 50% of the general church membership is “Less Active…” and MOST of that number are Single Adults. How sad.

  24. I find the person who wrote this about as superficial as they come. Give me a break will you? When I joined this church I was quite thin but there just wasn’t alot of availlable men to marry because of the Vietnam war going on. I was very attractive but began to put on weight as I grew older. My husband was bald, very fat, and about as stupid as they could get. So PLEASE when you start making fun of all the “FAT” women in this church, look at the men!!!!! Some of you are just plain jerks! I had a job interview with such a meathead who said he liked his “skinny women”. I’d lost 52 pounds. I guess I wasn’t skinny enough for the superficial butthead! I almost asked him if he like his “skinny” concubines too?????

    I am so sick and tired of the way women are treated by the priesthood in this church, I’ve left crying at many a meeting. They are last to do their home-teaching, last to help a single woman with her car, and make the mistake of calling themselves “Godly” men. I am sure Jesus would be so impressed at how the priesthood treat the women in this church!

  25. Dear Sister Deborah Strode (Fahnholz),

    I usually find ladies with hyphenated surnames off putting, but I can easily see Your Sweet Spirit by reading your post.

    Do you also have a loving Testimony to go along with your spirituality and love of our Savior?

    How fat are you?

  26. How bald, stupid, and ugly are you?????

  27. Me? I have nice blond hair, am in reasonable shape for 63 and am considered attractive. I also have a testimony. Do YOU..?

    Looks like I hit the nail on the head with YOU, FATSO…

    Lot’s of porkers think they can find LDS husbands on the web because they can show what a great personality they have prior to the poor suckers finding out that they are obese. S-U-R-P-R-I-S-E..!




  28. To the dude above that said his sister was on antidepressants “because she was sad she wasn’t married and then got happy because she was married.” Uh. You don’t seem to understand clinical depression. AND if women are eating for comfort, they might be better off on an antidepressant rather than self medicating with food.

    Don’t see anyone talking about the physical fitness of the men, BTW. Are all single mormon men Matt Damon lookalikes with abs of steel?

  29. Real men don’t put down women no matter what they weigh. Real men have manners and real men honor their priesthood. Okay, it’s not nice for women to make fun of bald men but it’s not nice for men to make fun of plump women either. If you men had to have babies and cook all the time, see if you’d stay skinny you ninconpoops. Men are just plain retarded if you ask me. Who wants them anyway? Just a bunch of overgrown babies with overgrown heads and no brains. LOL finding a wife. Go to Hollywood I suggest and marry someone with liposection, tummy tucks, and see if you could afford her. he he.

  30. Do you go to Single Adult Conferences?

    You really sound like a Peach…

  31. No, I don’t do the single things anymore. Too old and too tired of all the fun and games. I have better things to do with my time. My true love was killed in Vietnam and I’m just kind of waiting for him. I don’t need any man to complete my life here. The man I loved was kind, loving, caring, and he would never have made fun of people for being overweight. I find such people so superficial and very little self-esteem. I am still pretty attractive for my age and don’t have the wrinkles alot of women do. I don’t ask anything from anyone, no drama queen, but it’s really bothered me that men with the Priesthood of God would make fun of heavy women. Would Heavenly Father do that do you suppose? I guess I expected more out of men in this church. I’ve had alot of people tell me I am beautiful but my father always said–“Pretty is as pretty does.”
    And the Lord looks on the heart not the outside appearance. This world has gotten too vain, too ugly, too superficial and all these women destroying their health dieting and having eating disorders because of a society that promotes anorexia instead of healthy wealth. That is what I am shooting for is to be healthy. If you would see my blog I have pictures of extremely heavy women and the anorexics. And none of it is healthy. People need to learn to just eat healthy and stay away from all the junk food. But look at how much of it is at every Mormon function? Do you think that might promote weight gain all that food/????

  32. I find that women are not trustworthy. They do not communicate well. Many times they give these hints instead of telling the truth. The church treats women like they can do no wrong, and tells the men if there is anything wrong, it has to be their fault. I am tired of it. My ex girlfriend swindled me out of all my savings, and the church cuold care less. Yes she was a member. I also find women to be picky. Also, many women who have had divorces have cold feet and do not want to date. I have looked for my wife and haven’t found her. I am 44 yeard old. How would President Monson feel if the church turned its back on him and treated him second class for no fault of his own? I am tired of being judged. It is very hurtful to be teased and hounded by people who ask what is wrong with you. No, my feelings are no more a choice then the Saviors feelings when the cleared the temple of the moneychangers. I am tired of the double standard. When I was in the YSA banch the presidency every so often would talk to the men about dating. Never did they talk to the women on how they treat us. I even asked them to and they said nothing. If the church hates single adult men thry should just come out and say it. All I ever wanted it to have a wife of my choosing. No, I am not asking for perfection, but I feel like I am pushed to the side and it is a sick feeling. The gospel is true. however, the church is run by imperfect people. It needs some constructive criticism in order for it to improve.

  33. Meanwhile, the various Stakes continue to place older, unattractive, unmarriagable sisters in charge of Single Adult happenings. No out reach is done. No email lists are used. Few wards have S/A activities and ONLY “active” members can view their loser web sites.

    What sort of activities are presented? Things ONLY women like to do like going to a Pumpkin Festival or having endless, LONG dances.

    Like these older sisters are still blushing flowers depending on their attractiveness to gather dance partners.

    Testimonies or having S/A Testimonie Meetings is not happening.

    So the S/A brethren get to dance with older, less attracive sisters and really dumb church dances in the Recreation Hall, Basketball hoops and all.

    Is there an Annual S/A Conference church wide? Nope..

    How about a S/A Church Magazine? Ha-ha-ha… No way.

    And toss in how the FEW S/A dating web sites USUALLY featured OLD photos of the sisters taken when they were still attractive. You travel to meet them and can’t recognize who you have been emailing. What a surprise! Hey… There wasn’t a big black WART with HAIR sprouting out of it in your photo?

    S/A sisters are NOT considered a threat in “Family Wards” and are usually “Adopted” by a loving family and included in their events.

    Male S/A are NOT to be trusted. They might steal your wife or rape your kids.

    “WHY DON’T THEY J-U-S-T get married..?”

    AND S/A’s are often ENVIED by unhappily married members who see them as living care free lives of fun with no responsibilities what so ever.

    That’s some of the reasons male S/A’s are the “N-Word..” of the church.

    When was the last time they were mentioned at General Conference or offered advice in The Ensign…

    I have quit even waiting or looking for it.

  34. For anyone who cares, please Google “Celibate in the City” and read the blog called “Letter to the Singles.” It is possibly the best idea for age 30 singles ever. Please check it out.

  35. Mark and Bro Carter,

    What city and State are you guys in, just out of curiosity? Your statements are sadly validating to the likes of this Denver single.

  36. Actually, it is called “Letter to LDS Singles. “

  37. …that’s age 30 singles. As in all singles over 30. On an Android phone.

    IMHO, the situation has pinned the sexes against each other. And so far, the situation refuses to be changed.

    The problem has to change, and will…eventually. After all, it is the biggest problem the Church faces, and it affects every program in the Church …especially missionary work.

    Both sexes disappoint eachother. Both have reason to complain. What so many don’t choose to realize is that the prolonged state of virtually hopeless prospects of finding love, forces men and women into “crisis behaviors.” These behaviors legitimately help him and her to face and deal with the many struggles of singledom in the LDS Church (a unique experience that only they themselves can really understand.) Nonmembers don’t get it. Neither to Church leaders at at level. Nor do married members who did not spent a significant amount if time single prior to the marriage.

    The situation is sadder than can be explained by the written word. It is so tragic that most folks just ignore it, and mock and lecture those who dare tell it like it is. The 600 pound gorilla. In a crowb and new clothes.

    I told my Elders Quorum last Sunday that the Church is disfunctional in terms of its singles …and that it was creating anti-Mormons. And that the Church

  38. …in a crown and new clothes.

    The Church is losing most of its singles. We have to start speaking up in Church. Make people uncomfortable. Present new ideas. Have you checked my idea out? Its called “Stake Rotation. ” I explain it in the letter on that website “Celibate in the City.” Please check it out. Make comments
    Try it and let me know if it works for your area. While you are there, check out “Singles Crisis. ” Thanks. 🙂

  39. In my opinion, the GEMTAM would solve the singles crisis, but I’ll check out what you’ve got. Thanks for the comments.

  40. PS :

    These bad behaviors that both sexes perform are survival mechanisms; and will likely not change until the surrounding situation does. Its like telling someone in a concentration camp to quit stealing food. Ridiculous. Insane.

    The better bet is to come to terms with the fact that things are not working. And that the same organization that brings joy is also the source of great pain.

    Then speak that pain to those who claim to care. And join with other singles who feel the same and encourage them to speak out. Request new ideas that meet your need of meeting singles on your terms.

    Then you can think about having hope again, and those survival behaviors will naturally begin to fade away as if on their own.

  41. Thanks. What’s GEMTAM?

  42. There’s the GEMTAM on Fast Pencil and the GEMTAM discussion group on Facebook.

  43. Just read some. Will read more. Fascinating.

  44. I am in So. CA.

    I have written a lengthy report and suggestions for change, about THE MANY S/A Conferences I have been to (Writting reports ti lawyers is part of my job description..) to the General Authorities and got a nice “Thank You” letter from President Faust.

    I was once the Stake S/A Representative and I can tell you many sad experiences I have had TRYING to tell OUR leaders what we need to do to make it work.

    I have read the history of the church and many other writtings and it seems engrained and written in stone that YOU and I must get married. Period.

    Those that don’t serve servants as ministering angels forever says Joseph F. Smith.

    Ot also goes back to pioneer days when there were so many extra unmarried women and polyogamy was tried as a solution.

    I can well appreciate the feelings of some brother with extra wives being very resentful of those who had none.

    Nothing new here in my area.

    Some time ago private parties ofr S/A’s were banned.

    But have at it.

    I did..

  45. For anyone who is having a hard time finding it, it’s at

    I should’ve introduced it that way earlier. Sorry.

  46. Hoo boy.

    I am an average-to-fit single adult. I love to dance, but won’t attend SA dances any more. The men are too desperate – and the few that I’ve dated have been hard to deal with.

    Either they’re trying to compromise my chastity on the first date, or they’re proposing by the 2nd.


    Doesn’t matter to me how attractive the guy is, if he’s compromising my boundaries like that, I don’t really want to have anything to do with him.

    For the record, I’ve seen quite attractive people of both sexes at SA dances. Nothing different than the general population,

    Oh, and “no fat chicks” turns me off quick – even though I’m not even remotely fat. That tells me right there that the guy is shallow, and would probably get a divorce if he ever got married and his wife gained weight.

  47. How can it be that a prize like yourself is single?

    After all, you love to dance and aren’t fat?

    Guys really are shallow, aren’t they?


  48. One reason why i’m inactive is not because I hate the Gospel, I love the Gospel.
    The reason is I’m in the middle of my Tweens and I am single aka. NOT MARRIED.
    Yes, i can’t deny that there is NO pressure to females… and males (after reading the posts above). I know how harsh it is for Singles in the Church and it’s a tiring process…

    Either you bring guys to church ( but please not too many otherwise your a whore… even if they are friends), talk a bit too long with other Brothers (single/married), just joke with some guy from the ward ( all eyes on you and the talks start) or simply translate for a male visitor ( your Mother will have to answer all Questions from other RS curious women about your “Boyfriend”). 
    What a wonderful Sunday! Yay!

    But before i stopped going to church at all I stopped with the YSA. That was a really disappointing experience.
    What I saw there, most of the men are either very Proud of themselfs about the church (testimony, someone in the Family/Clan who is a Leader, or simply how of a fine Saint he is! etc.,) OR you are so very proud and full of yourself of how you look
    ( ^ goes to the Girls too)
    There are very few humble ones (but are taken by very demanding Girls) and the Group Sheeps (they follow each other or who ever they think is cool at the moment, in a funny way and need to grow up).
    I’ve seen not so many nice things in there and they tend to make a bit of too much drama.
    Example? Like this very faithful and christ like girl from a well known Family who got ashamed because the Returned Missionary she was dating “secretly”, he was born outside of Wedlock and was probably of “cursed blood”.

    Practically, the YSA leaders wheren’t much of Leaders (I was my ward representative and had to deal with them, they had some very quick answers but asking more profound Questions was “ahm, i have to check…”, “i have to ask”, “Quit asking, and DO IT”).

    I never dated anyone from Church but from outside the church there were many behind me.That was and is still my dilemma.
    I believe in the Gospel but i can’t see myself with someone from my Stake or the other Stakes. I often discussed and joked with another friend going to another Country. 
    I grow up with a lot of the people here and i know how they flow. Sundays everyone is so very Saintly but under the week it’s different. Some started to use such YSA meetings and dances to promote some Political Propaganda of an almost racist not christ like Party. Just so they can stand up and give testimony of how super patriotic they are on Sunday.
    I sometimes felt that the Stake Presidency doesn’t care as long enough YSAs attend, i sure hope they wake up and I hope the YSA who got married mature at some point.

    About the “Fat Woman/Bald Men)”… it’s true.
    I too, wonder why. Some said its depression, could be… I’ve read an article about that many who are depressed turn to food (trying to replace a feeling or need that’s missing inside).
    A fat woman can still lose the weight but a bald man, well my dear, you will have to cope with a desperate obese woman if you don’t have any charisma and some sense of humor.

    If you feel “fat” and are unhappy about it THEN DO SOMETHING about it. Sometimes you just have to switch to a healthier diet and you HAVE to start moving ( there are some great Workout DVD’s like the products from Beachbody, start some Pilates or Yoga, or even start with that silly Nordern Walking BUT just START MOVING). Some are just plain lazy, others feel too tired, and very few times it’s genetics (In the Case of the bald guys, it’s genetics). There are cases in which a Woman loves herself the way she is no matter her size. I meet a few, they are happy and they have a radiant personality and men find that attracting.

    But in General it’s our church culture… young women growing up with the pressure to start at some time (best at 18) a family. If that doesn’t happen or the younger ones start to get married then the self nagging starts.
    Am I not good enough?
    Do i lack in faith? Why am I not blessed? Am I cursed?
    Didn’t I do everything the Leaders told me? Does God love me?
    Is it  because all my skirts are above my knee? Too tight clothes? Am I cursed because of it?
    Am I fat? Am I ugly? Am I weird?

    (In my case with 20, I got depressed for a year gaining 5kg, actually I lost myself. There are some of the moments when one says “Buhoo, I’ll die lonley”, “Doesn’t matter how I look! all is lost anyway” or you simply give up. After that I told myself “Screw it”, did some martial arts, my goal is still Krav Maga. Lost the weight, changed my hairstyle & color, got myself a new look, i traveled and I still do,  love it because i always wanted to know more about other cultures. My goal was to be an independent strong young woman who doesn’t need to rely on men and doesn’t follow everything it’s said and has the guts to speak up if I have something to say, even if it doesn’t please anyone.

    Now I can understand that I’m not wife material for many in the church, i guess. But it’s alright, I could die happily even without an engament ring and if i find  Mr. Right I’m sure he will handle me.

    Ps.: Anyone read the book or saw the Movie “The Help”?
    Some friends and I found some scary parallels with our Church Culture.
    It almost felt like RS…

  49. Holy cow! The things you’ll find while perusing LDSanarchy…I have to shamefully admit that I laughed through the post and many of the comments. I say shamefully because I wonder if I would have were I not thin? I have overweight friends and I know they struggle. It’s like an addiction. My thin heroin addicted sister doesn’t have it a whole lot worse than they do.

    My 2 younger, single LDS brothers have told me that when they go to YSA activities that the GIRLS are the perverts. They say they have been proposition by “good Mormon girls” a few times. And they do also concur that a majority are quite, uhm, plump. So far neither one are having much luck finding a wife:(

    So far so good with my own husbands hair hanging in there;) but I have to say there are a lot of super good looking bald guys. I don’t think you can really compare fat girls to bald guys, unless the guys are fat AND bald. Well in that case I agree with Neferteri that he better be funny. And smart. And rich. And kind to animals. And own a Harley. Haha:D

  50. LDS Singles Wards are kind of a psyop when you think about it. Its neurolinguistic programming. They tell you its a singles ward…and people still think they are gonna get married…but they just stay single in these ridiculous wards.

  51. I have been single most of my life and was married to someone in the church at only 26. He was abusive and cruel and I had to leave the marriage. I just didn’t find anyone outside the church or in the church who loved me enough to take me to the temple. I am still reasonably attractive for my age thanks to not smoking, drinking, or using illegal drugs. What difference does it make how much weighs anyway–female or male? I think we need to find someone who will make us happy no matter if we are fat, skinny, ugly, or in between. In the long run what does it really matter anyway? I think the reason American’s as a whole have become fatter is that we don’t exercise the way our ancestors did, we mostly sit at computers at our jobs, and all those nice church dinners, RS Enrichments, and single events with mounds of food doesn’t help matters! I have a friend who lives on salads and so worried about gaining a little weight but never does anything to fix herself up including buying a new dress, make-up etc. I know I’ve put on weight through the years but at least I don’t wear the same dress to church over and over & keep my house clean. I am funny, smart, and educated and have had a lot of non-Mormon men interested in me even as “fat” as I’ve gotten. I think those who look on the outside package don’t see what is much more important & that is the heart. Heavenly Father looks on the heart you know? Why shouldn’t we?

  52. ” at least I don’t wear the same dress to church over and over”

    “I think those who look on the outside package don’t see what is much more important & that is the heart. Heavenly Father looks on the heart you know? Why shouldn’t we?”

    clothes dont matter, being overweight is UNHEALTHY that’s why it is unattractive. no one wants to marry someone who will die young or end up with diabetes or heart disease. being overweight is far worse for your health than occasionally having a few drinks, or using “illegal drugs” (the good ones anyway, LSD mushrooms cannabis). for some reason we all want to pussyfoot around this instead of talking about it. YOU ARE FAT BECAUSE YOU EAT TOO MUCH. if that’s offensive get the funk over it. my friends who cant breathe from smoking too many cigarettes would be very stupid to get offended when told they should smoke less. you are very stupid if you get mad when told you eat too much. obesity is a huge epidemic and its time to stop being “nice” and talk about what’s going on. OBESITY IS THE LEADING CAUSE OF PREVENTABLE DEATH IN THE ENTIRE WORLD!!

    and sissy, ask any missionary who went to a 3rd world country and they will tell you how little clothing and makeup matter when a woman is fit and beautiful. but if youre fat as hell you cant hide it by dressing up and painting your face

  53. I’ve been in singles wards for nearly a decade now. Having run the gamut of several singles wards, both in Utah and without, my current position is that it isn’t really obese women or bald men that make singles wards tough. It is the toxic culture. I am fortunate in that the first few years in my current ward were quite great. My bishop was excellent, and although he did play the “I want to get you married” card frequently, it was in good taste. And most importantly, the spiritual character of the ward was very strong, something too frequently lacking in singles wards, at least in my experience. It makes them feel empty, like hollow shells where spiritual pursuits are an obligatory yet inconvenient addition to the real goal: socializing. Since changing bishops a while back, this ward has taken on that feeling, and it is distressing. Luckily, I am both a priesthood and sunday school teacher, and can personally ensure that for at least 1-2 hours of church each month there will be a high quality and well thought-out lesson. Beyond that, my current encounters with the spirit in my ward are sporadic. It has been quite alienating, and during this last month I have been on call at the hospital and found myself breathing a sigh of relief when I have a shift on Sunday because I can forgo the displeasure of attending church. Granted, not all wards are like this, but I have been through enough to see that this lack of emphasis on actual worship is frequent. When worship becomes secondary to dating, is it any wonder young people languish in singles wards?

  54. I can understand what you are saying. I’ve been single over 30 years now and was quite attractive in my younger days, wasn’t overweight, etc. etc. I found that I was ostracized the minute I got my divorce by certain members of the church so I became inactive for many years. Forget the singles scene! I remember those dances oh so well. It was like a “meat market” for me. The only one I loved to dance with was an old boyfriend of mine. I found then how superficial some men can be when picking out a wife–trophy wife no less. One of my nephews married one of those in the temple and was in the Air Force. They had two beautiful children. The minute she got her degree she left him, had a fling with another service man, divorced my nephew, dishonored her covenants, cheated, and now has the good life. A brand new house and two beautiful children. And what did it do to my nephew? He almost committed suicide. I saw her on facebook and she’s beautiful to look at: slim, long blonde hair, beautiful to look out but how superficial on the inside. I believe Jezabel was probably beautiful to look at too. You can read about all kinds of “bad” women of the Bible who were beautiful to look at but superficial to boot.

    When I moved out of state I had a bunch of Mormon women help me move who were all married. I didn’t have time to send my boxes (all of them) and they went through my personal belongings and donated them including beautiful temple clothing, nice church dresses, all my books, and presents family gave me through the years. Not one apology! Just a sarcastic remark from the RS that I should have done it myself. This is how single women are treated in this church. I don’t know how many times I’ve left my old ward and would be bawling all the way home. And this is supposed to be the “true church.” If I’d been married I doubt I would have been treated so.

    I don’t think obesity is so much a problem in this country as the epidemic of the lack of civility. Just today some guy yelled out a expletive to me for no reason.

    Yes, fat isn’t very attractive but being ugly isn’t pretty either. And pretty is as pretty does.

    At least when I was married I never cheated on my husband.

  55. obesity is a huge problem whether you think so or not

    “In the United States obesity is estimated to cause 111,909 to 365,000 deaths per year, while 1 million (7.7%) of deaths in Europe are attributed to excess weight. On average, obesity reduces life expectancy by six to seven years”

    even if you count all the suicides caused by a lack of civility its a lot lower usually around 40,000 sucides per year in the US.

    no one is saying that its better to be hot than to be virtuous. theyre saying its better to not be fat than to be fat, and of course its better to to be faithful and not be [a jerk] than to be selfish. lots of fat people cheat on their spouses too. i personally would much rather a fat woman who loved me and made me happy than a hot lady who would cheat on me or be mean or abuse my children. that doesn’t mean they’re mutually exclusive though.

  56. I don’t know about whether they’re perverted or not, both the men and women seem to be generally shallow, boring, etc and not people I would intentionally hang out with for fun. However I’ve noticed that the amount of fat men is DEFINITELY as high as the amount of fat women. And even the fatties don’t want to date the other fatties

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