What if…the Lord brought the Prophet Joseph Smith back from the dead to lead the church?

What If…?

Back when I was still collecting Marvel Comics (around 1984), there was a series called “What If…”  The What If entry of Wikipedia describes it this way:

What If, sometimes rendered as What If…?, is the title of several comic book series published by Marvel Comics, exploring “the road not traveled” by its various characters. Events in the series are considered separate from mainstream continuity in the Marvel Universe…  Some storylines involved individual characters choosing to take (or not to take) a particular action, when in “reality” they had made precisely the opposite decision. For example, a Captain America storyline published circa 1980 saw the hero being offered the opportunity to run for President of the United States as a third-party candidate. In the end, he declined the invitation. Nevertheless, issue #26 of What If (“What if Captain America became President?“) showed him accepting the nomination, and ultimately winning the 1980 Presidential Election.

This post is in the same vein as that series.

OWIW’s theory

One Who Is Watching (OWIW), one of the contributors of this blog, has written many articles on the possibility and scriptural evidence that Joseph will be returning from the dead to initiate the Third Watch.  (I don’t know if OWIW is the originator of this theory, but we’ll just say he is.)  Anyone can go to his own website to review the scriptural proofs he presents.

As I’ve considered the facts of the matter, and the circumstances we find ourselves in, I’ve come to the conclusion that there is a very real possibility that Joseph may indeed be coming back.  And soon.  Real soon.

I present here six reasons why I consider this a possibility.  The first reason is based on the scriptures.  The latter reasons are based upon the revelations I have personally received from the Holy Ghost.

Reason #1: The Unfulfilled Prophecies Concerning Joseph

If you search the scriptures and start to list all of the prophecies of what Joseph was supposed to do, it becomes apparent that not everything was fulfilled.

For example, consider the prophecy of Joseph’s name being “had for good and evil among all nations, kindreds, and tongues, or that it should be both good and evil spoken of among all people” (JS-H 1: 33.)  This prophecy indicates that there was to be no middle ground.  Either you would love him or you would hate him and this was to be systemic throughout the world, meaning that his fame (or infamy, in the case of those who hate him) would be worldwide.  Everyone would know of Joseph Smith, Jr.

However, the plain fact is that today Joseph’s fame is very limited.  Everyone has heard of Miley Cyrus, but not everyone has heard of Joseph Smith.  And of those who have heard of him, not everyone has  established a good or bad opinion of him.  Some are still out to lunch about him or just don’t care  either way.

However, for Moroni’s words to be fulfilled, Joseph Smith must do something so polarizing that the entire world both knows of him and takes a side either for or against him.  His fame would have to approach that of Moses, or, as the scriptures say, he would be have to be “like unto Moses.”  (See D&C 28: 2; 103: 16; and 107: 91.)  Such is presently not the case.  In fact, President Bush, in the short span of eight years, has beaten Joseph Smith, Jun., in both numbers of people who have heard his name and know of his deeds, as well as in terms of polarization.  This prophecy, therefore, remains unfulfilled.

I am not really okay with unfulfilled prophecies, after all, look at the following statement by the Lord:

Search these commandments, for they are true and faithful, and the prophecies and promises which are in them shall all be fulfilled.  What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.  For behold, and lo, the Lord is God, and the Spirit beareth record, and the record is true, and the truth abideth forever and ever. Amen.  (D&C 1: 37-39)

My own experience with prophecies (prophecies that the Spirit has given me to speak) shows that unconditional prophecy is always fulfilled, while conditional prophecy is always fulfilled if the conditions are met.  Nevertheless, my experience also shows that it is always done in the Lord’s time.

Past, Present and Future

As the scriptures indicate that all things are before the Lord, both past, present and future, when He speaks a prophecy concerning a set of circumstances and the present has that exact set of circumstances, the prophecy still may not be referring to the present. It may, in fact, be referring chiefly to a future event in which the same set of circumstances will exist and have only minimal application to the present.

The people, then, in the present—who hear the prophecy first pronounced and look around seeing the circumstances described therein, not being the Lord and not seeing the future—naturally think the Lord is talking about now (the present) and not the future.  They wait to see the fulfillment of the prophecy, but the circumstances leave and the prophecy remains unfulfilled. Or does it?

Of course, we know from scriptural experience that the same set of circumstances, or an even more precise set of circumstances, that perfectly fits the prophecy, eventually presents itself and the prophecy fulfills itself every whit.  But before that, everyone’s faith is tested. Those who never stopped believing get vindicated, while those who doubted get astonished.

Prophecy works this way because the Lord sees everything and can talk about the past, present and future as if it were all one big present.  Everything to the Lord, therefore, is “nigh at hand” and he can (and often does) jump around the time line in a non-linear fashion while speaking.  In this way, prophecy can serve to both try (test) the faith of, as well as to generate faith in, the hearer.  And so, often there is a delay to fulfillment.

Therefore, concerning the “unfulfilled” prophecies about Joseph, it is a safe bet that everything spoken about him will be fulfilled as it was spoken. However, in order for that to happen, Joseph would have to come back from the dead.

Trans-mortal ministries and bringing the dead to life

There is scriptural precedent for trans-mortal ministries, meaning ministries that go beyond mortality.  Moses led the Israelites, but then came back at least a couple of times.  Moroni came back, Elijah came back, John the Baptist came back, and Peter, James and John also came back.  And there may be a great number of other prophets who also continued their ministry “in the flesh” after they died.

Additionally, there is scriptural precedent for bringing back the dead and restoring them to a mortal body.  I am not referring to the Resurrection, which makes us immortal, but to taking a dead man’s spirit and returning it to his body so that he lives a second, mortal life.  Lazarus experienced this.  Timothy (Nephi’s brother) experienced this.  In our own age there have been many reported “near-death” or “out-of-body” experiences that are claimed.  So, we know that bringing back Joseph and restoring him to a mortal frame is within the gospel context.  If brought back, he would then be able to fulfill all those prophecies that were spoken about him.

Reason # 2: The Joseph Smith Daguerreotype

Back in 2001, when I first discovered the Joseph Smith Daguerreotype, the Spirit indicated to me that I was working at that job specifically to find that dag.  There were only two significant things that occurred during my three months working there: the Twin Towers fell and I saw what I thought (and still continue to think) was a daguerreotype of Joseph Smith in a museum exhibition book.  Despite the impact of 911, due to the revelation the Spirit had given me concerning my purpose at that location, I thought the discovery of the daguerreotype was the more significant occurrence.

After no one paid attention to my find back then, I wondered why the Lord thought it so important to lead me to that discovery.  My understanding was that I was shown that image because I would recognize it as the Prophet and then would get the word out, showing it to others.  But I wondered, why was it important that people have a good image of the Prophet (if indeed it was the Prophet), after all, he’s dead and gone and who cares what he looked like?  The only conclusion I could come to back then was that we needed to know what he looked like so that we could recognize him when he came back.

However, it wasn’t until nearly seven years later, on this blog, that I was able to finally show the image to the world.  Again, I thought, why it is important that the image be shown now?  A possible answer in all this is that now is, or soon will be, the time that Joseph is coming back.

This doesn’t necessarily mean that the daguerreotype is a real image of the Prophet.  The Holy Ghost has never revealed its origins to me.  (I suppose that I could ask God and get an answer for myself, but I haven’t done that, yet.)  What is important is that the Holy Ghost did direct me to find it, which brings up the questions as to why it is important to be able to recognize the image of Joseph and specifically, why we LDS ought to be able to recognize him now, leading to the aforementioned possible reason (Joseph’s return from the dead.)

Reason #3: The Break-up of the Government

From time to time on this blog I have told some of the revelations I have received from the Holy Ghost.  For example, back in April of this year, I published some whisperings I had received concerning the economic problems we currently find ourselves in.  (See the second comment of that post, too.)  I believe I have also published on this blog before (perhaps several times) that the U.S. government would be broken up and we would be brought into tribal anarchy.  I might have expressed myself about this subject as just issuing an opinion.  Since then, however, the Spirit has confirmed the fact.

However, this begs the questions, “What is the established pattern of the Lord for destruction upon a people and nation?  Does not He first warn them by sending prophets to them?”

So, the imminent break-up of the government could signal the imminent return of Joseph, in which he fulfills his prophetic duty of warning the wicked of our corrupt government one last time before its destruction, leaving them without excuse.

Reason #4: The Break-up of the Church

I have written before on this blog that I believe the church will be broken up and cleansed.  (See The Root Cause of the Current Financial (Monetary) Crisis and Its Solution and The dissolution of the corporate LDS Church via “gay marriage”, for example.)  This belief is based upon revelation given me of the Spirit.  (See, for example, this comment.)  I had always assumed that the Lord would clean His church in one of three scenarios, but the unannounced return of Joseph Smith would also be sufficient to break-up the church.

Reason #5: A “New Variable” from the Lord

The Spirit has indicated to me that there will be a “new variable” from the Lord that will present itself.  (See my comments on this other blog.)  All I know about this new variable is that it will initiate the church cleansing and start the process of the redemption of Zion.

There is no better way to cleanse the church from top to bottom, both member and priest, than to have Joseph return unannounced to set in order the church.  And we all know that if anyone can redeem Zion, he can.

Reason #6: Joseph Fits the Bill

Prior to the election, I met with what4anarchy and told him of these prophecies.  I explained to him that I didn’t understand how this was all going to fit because my understanding was that the church must be broken up first, before the government gets broken up.  I didn’t understand how this was to happen, as the Spirit hadn’t revealed it to me, He had only told me that it would happen. We discussed Prop 8 and my other scenarios for the cleansing and break-up of the church, but none of these seemed to fit this particular time, as the Spirit was indicating that the break-up was imminent.

However, the return of Joseph Smith does fit.

I realize that OWIW’s time line is from April 2008 to April 2009.  That is the time frame he gives for the Third Watch to begin and Joseph (and others) to return.  Personally, for the prophecies of the scriptures to be fulfilled at this time (and also the prophecies I’ve received), I’d put it more between now and the swearing in of Barack Obama as the President of the United States, i.e., from today (this post was written on December 19-21, 2008 ) to January 20, 2009.  And if I had to pick a day for Joseph to return, I’d say he’d return to life on December 23rd, his birthday.  (Btw, Happy 203rd Birthday, Joseph!)

The Proclamation

The reason for this time frame?  D&C 124: 1-14.  The proclamation that Joseph was supposed to write to the “honorable president-elect” (which never was written) must be written and delivered while there is actually a president-elect.  (Contrary to the section’s verse summary, which reads, “Joseph Smith is commanded to make a solemn proclamation of the gospel to the president of the United States, the governors, and the rulers of all nations“, the revelation itself never says that the proclamation was to go to the president, but to the “honorable president-elect”.)  The words of the revelation show that the Lord was looking at a future time, in which would be similar circumstances.  Notice this:

For it shall be given you by the Holy Ghost to know my will concerning those kings and authorities, even what shall befall them in a time to come. (D&C 124: 5)

Either the proclamation was written back then and will be sent forth this or next month, or it will be written this or next month and sent forth prior to President-Elect Barack Obama’s inauguration.  Either way, for these instructions to be complied with and this prophecy to be fulfilled at this time, there are about 30 days left for Joseph to return and issue the proclamation to the honorable president-elect Barack Obama, to the high-mined governors of the states (including the high-minded governor of Illinois, Governor Rod Blagojevich), to the kings of the nations and to the nations of the earth, i.e., to the executive branches of all the nations of the earth.

The wording of D&C 124 actually sounds to my prophetic ears as the revealed word of the Lord to Joseph upon his being raised from the dead.  In other words, if you could imagine Joseph just standing up in his restored physical, mortal body, having just been brought back from the dead, and the first words of his Lord that he hears are these:

Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you, my servant Joseph Smith, I am well pleased with your offering and acknowledgments, which you have made; for unto this end have I raised you up, that I might show forth my wisdom through the weak things of the earth.  Your prayers are acceptable before me; and in answer to them I say unto you, that you are now called immediately to make a solemn proclamation of my gospel, and of this stake which I have planted to be a cornerstone of Zion, which shall be polished with the refinement which is after the similitude of a palace.  (D&C 124: 1-2)

His first mission, as recorded in this revelation, is to make this proclamation, but, as we learn later on in the revelation, he needs help from others:

And again, verily I say unto you, let my servant Robert B. Thompson help you to write this proclamation, for I am well pleased with him, and that he should be with you; let him, therefore, hearken to your counsel, and I will bless him with a multiplicity of blessings; let him be faithful and true in all things from henceforth, and he shall be great in mine eyes; but let him remember that his stewardship will I require at his hands.  (D&C 124: 12-14)

The rest of the revelation includes a shopping list of elders that the Lord (perhaps) is indicating need to be returned from the dead to continue their missions in helping the Prophet fulfill his own.  Also, interestingly enough, section 124 directs the Prophet to completely organize the priesthood quorums of the church, with officers filling every part of her, from the First Presidency on down to the last quorum.

So, what if…Joseph returned?

Joseph’s return would initiate the break-up of the church.  A man suddenly showing up, saying, “Hi, I’m Joseph Smith, Jun., founder of the Mormon church” might not have an effect on people if he looked like just about anyone, but if he looked like the death mask and, perhaps, if he looked like the daguerreotype found on this blog, there would definitely be commotion among the members.

Proofs of Authenticity

There will always be people who doubt that a man could come back from the dead (even within our church), but for those who considered the possibility, they would demand some proof that he was who he said he was.

Visually, even if the man did look like both the death mask, the dag, and the paintings based on the death mask, etc., in other words, even if his appearance did have a semblance of what the majority of LDS consider Joseph to look like, there would still be doubts.  With modern plastic surgery technology, a man could disguise himself.  Or, perhaps the man is an unknown descendant of Joseph or Hyrum?  Such thoughts would be in many heads.

Hand-writing experts who came forth to compare the man’s hand-writing with Joseph’s known hand-writing, even if they said it was the same, many people would still think it could be an imposter who had practiced and practiced until he got the hand-writing of Joseph down pat.  We’ve already had experiences with forgeries, so doubts would remain.

A fingerprint would probably be the perfect way to identify the man as Joseph, but it is unlikely that fingerprints of Joseph exist.

If the man said, “I am Joseph.  Open my grave and look.  You will find no body there,” he would be ignored.  The church would not desecrate the grave of the Prophet just because some crazy man came forth with insane claims.  And even if some members had to know and in the dead of night unearthed the grave and found no body, the general membership would still doubt that it proved that the man was Joseph.

Despite any and all evidences that could be presented to show that the man was, in fact, Joseph Smith raised from the dead, the one test that LDS would use to discover the fact would be the reaction of their leaders.  If the leaders rejected the man, the LDS would reject him.  If they accepted him, they would do likewise.

“Follow the Brethren”: Not a Sufficient Mantra

The unannounced (and real) return of Joseph would break the church because there would be some, both members and leaders, who would pray to God and receive confirmation that he was who he said he was.  But there would also be others who would deny him (of both members and leaders.)  A schism would be created in the membership and among the leadership and the unanimity that we currently have would cease. (Remember, a majority decision does not have the same blessing as a unanimous decision, in the governing quorums of the church.)

Would the Brethren simply concede authority to Joseph (and to any other returned-from-the-dead elders)?  I don’t believe they would.  Some might think they were genuine, some might not.  But generally, they would probably as a majority label them impostors.  They would not be able to arrive at a unanimous consensus concerning Joseph and the others returned.  (This is an important point.)  This division would divide the members, too.  Some would claim to receive revelation that these men were who they said they were.  Excommunications of both members and priesthood leaders would be rampant.  The established order of the church would be shaken and broken up.  I’m talking of a house cleaning from top to bottom that nobody saw coming.  The mantra to “follow the brethren” would be followed by the question, “Follow which brethren? those that say Joseph is an impostor or those that say he holds the keys?”  Each member would have to rely upon the Spirit alone to figure it all out.

The Government Targets the Mormons

To make matters worse (or better?), when Joseph got around to issuing the proclamation to Barack and the nation’s governors, calling them to repentance and prophesying the destruction and break-up of this nation if they didn’t immediately make way for Zion, suddenly the government of the United States would target…the Mormons.  Think we’ve had enough bad press this year with Romney running, the FLDS raid and Prop 8?  Wait until next month when the proclamation is issued and the persecutions and round-up of Mormons begin…

Joseph would begin the process of restoring Zion and restoring Israel, but once the President and governors (the government) now targeted the saints, the cleansing and judgments upon the house of God would initiate.  The proclamation would be issued in the name of and for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints by someone claiming to be its founder.  Even if the LDS leadership tried to distance itself from both the man and the proclamation, if enough members and leadership acknowledged him as Joseph, the annoyance would not be overlooked by the government.

Remember, there can be no delivery from bondage without first being in bondage!

The Prohesied Church Cleansing of Prophets and Apostles

A deliverer (Joseph), one like unto Moses, would deliver the faithful who followed him and the prophesies concerning the false prophets and apostles and bishoprics in the church would fulfill itself:

Behold, I, the Lord, have made my church in these last days like unto a judge sitting on a hill, or in a high place, to judge the nations.  For it shall come to pass that the inhabitants of Zion shall judge all things pertaining to Zion. And liars and hypocrites shall be proved by them, and they who are not apostles and prophets shall be known. And even the bishop, who is a judge, and his counselors, if they are not faithful in their stewardships shall be condemned, and others shall be planted in their stead.  (D&C 64: 37-40)


Now, I’m not saying that Joseph will return at this time.  All I’m saying is that if Joseph were to return at this time it would fulfill both the scriptures and the whisperings of the Spirit to me, personally.

Jesus always sends an Elias to prepare the way before Him.  However, the pattern of Elias (John the Baptist) was that he was on the scene when the Lord came the first time.  This pattern may hold out for the second Elias (Joseph).

It may be wise to keep our eyes and ears open during the next 30 days, because if someone starts claiming to be Joseph Smith, Jun., if he suddenly appears at the inauguration of Obama, blowing a trump, raising an ensign and reading from a written proclamation, even with loud proclamation, in the eyes of all the world’s television cameras, there to witness and record the historic inauguration, instead of just quickly dismissing the man as a crackpot, it may be to our benefit to take prophetic inventory and determine whether the man is a prophet, because if he is, and we don’t recognize it, we may end up on the wrong hand.

Previous Joseph Smith article: Breaking News: Joseph Smith’s Daguerrotype is scanned and uploaded

Complete List of Articles authored by LDS Anarchist



  1. Anarchist
    Did you smoke a lot of pot before you joined the church? Not that I think you are wrong, but I never would have thought of it. Not even before I joined the church and smoked pot. 🙂

  2. Nope, I never smoked dope. I was very young when I joined the church, so I never got to try any. But my father smoked a lot of pot (he still does, to my knowledge), so maybe that explains it.

    I was in a rush out the door and hit the “publish” button, thinking the post was finished, and then afterward I realized that I had forgotten to include one more thing. This concerns both the return of Joseph and any others that come with him:

    For behold, the day cometh that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly shall burn as stubble; for they that come shall burn them, saith the Lord of Hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. (JS-H 1: 37)

    This was Moroni’s prophecy to Joseph Smith. I find the wording peculiar, don’t you?

  3. Maybe we will recognize him when we find him in bed with a 14 year old girl?

  4. Maybe we should consider that the lack of fulfillment of these prophecies is ample evidence that he was not a true prophet of God? (Deuteronomy 18:21-22)

  5. Ether 12: 26
    26 And when I had said this, the Lord spake unto me, saying: Fools mock, but they shall mourn; and my grace is sufficient for the meek, that they shall take no advantage of your weakness;

  6. I’ve read and reread the theories advanced about JS return. The greatest counsel offered is to take it to the Lord, ask and ye shall receive. However, many members would rather not take the serious time and effort to do just that. I offer this true event.– During the celebrations for JS a few years ago, the Lord answered my heartfelt desires to give of my talents to the church, I became involved with a musical about the life of JS. I met a man there who, having many conversations, felt as I did about the members of the church and their under achievement in the arts. The trust was there when he revealed to me that he had seen the Savior, man to man. Now, this man is looked at in our area as kind of a no good, slothful, kooky kind of man. It bothered me, and made me question. I took it to the Lord, had the thoughts in my heart all the time, fasted…and I got my answer. The man was not a liar. So after the show, on a Sunday, we held a fast and testimony meeting. Eventually, he stood and announced that he had seen JS at the theater, and that JS told this man he was delighted that, we as Saints, had got it–what his life was about. The room went silent, I could feel the walls of the members raised in disbelief of what this man was saying. They glossed over it, a chill was in the room, all eyes staring at this man who was obviously out of his mind. I, however, had one of the strongest feelings from the Holy Ghost. I knew what he said was true, but that is because I took the time to know that this man was not a kook. And I doubt anyone went home to figure out if he was or not. Many members will have the same reaction if JS does come back. As for me, I have much studying to do on the subject…and then take it to the Lord. I’ll let you know what I find out.

  7. Anarchist
    Ok, I do have a strange theory for you. When the church was restored and the GA’s were chosen. All of the 70 and only 9 of the 12 apostles had their faith tested by the same trials. What of the other 3? How was their faith tested? Were the other 3 all ready here? Are they here still; only not members of the quorum?

  8. KoT,

    I’m sorry, you lost me there. What are you referring to?

  9. I wonder, did Brother William W. Phelps believe that Joseph would return from the dead when he wrote Hymn #27, “Praise to the Man”? The lyrics say,

    Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
    Millions shall know “Brother Joseph” again.

  10. There is no need to Joseph to come back to our mortal coil. The keys of the priesthood are here and held. No apostasy of the ordinances has occurred. However, many of the prophecies mentioned in the above post could well concern things occurring in the spirit world or beyond.

    No, this is adding a lot of speculation and false doctrine to a chain of events that are already quite clear.

  11. I have spent a lot of time pondering on OWIW’s theories. I have not been able to disprove them to my satisfaction so currently I have to think they are viable.

    I do not agree with your timing however, I feel there is more that has to happen before (and if) Joseph Smith comes back. As I sat in church last Sunday, the Sunday before Christmas, I looked around at the people in their fancy clothes and gold and silver jewelry. I walked outside and was met with a parking lot with Porsche’s, Land Rovers, Mercedes, Infinity’s, etc. I’ve known for a long time that mormons are way to comfortable and caught up in the world. I feel the mormons will be shaken up before (and if) JS comes back. They will be like the Israelites were when Moses appeared. I do not know and can not disagree with you when you say the church will be broken up prior to the government but I would think the economic circumstances will be much worse when that happens, people will be looking for a miracle, JS shows up and the turmoil will begin. “Is he really Joseph Smith or is he an impostor? I have been praying for a miracle but the brethren say he is of the devil.” That could be the common thoughts among the mormons.

  12. PallasAthena, do you think, then, that the proclamation will come forth without Joseph Smith coming forth, i.e. that Joseph wrote it and hid it when still alive and that it will be found and read now? (I believe OWIW entertains such an idea.) Or, do you think that there will be a future “president-elect” (not Obama) in which the proclamation is directed? In other words, where does the proclamation fit in your timing?

  13. Tom, thanks for the comments. I haven’t received revelation from the Spirit, yet, concerning the return of Joseph Smith. However, as I “read the writing on the wall,” in my estimation there is a strong possibility of this happening and I wanted to present a dated, written article prior to the event, with an deadline prediction for it to occur, if indeed, it is to happen.

    In my own life, I have made many mistakes in the past concerning predictions by failing to write them down. To my family, friends and some associates, I have predicted certain things verbally prior to them happening, and after they did happen and after I brought to their attention that I had predicted them beforehand, they never remember the prediction! So, I have been trying to document with the written word anything concerning futurity.

    I agree with you that I am speculating (it is merely a “what if…” and not a prophecy given me of the Spirit), but I don’t see what false doctrine you are referring to. Can you elaborate?

  14. LDSA-

    That is a great question and I wish I had an answer, but I don’t. There are many events and prophecies that I can not quite fit into the timeline of events preceding the second coming as I understand it. That does not mean they are not true, just that I don’t understand them correctly. This one is new to me and I need to take the time to ponder on it some. I have had little time recently to do much study into the topic or check your blog but here is an attempt to propose some answers your questions.

    Option 1) It could be like you say, JS could have written it, and hidden it or passed it on, to be read by someone else within the next month, but I don’t think so. Though I have read a few different opinions that express 2008-2009 as the time when all this happens, I don’t see it. I don’t argue with what you say as 2008 being the start of the steep downward slide (impact phase) but I can’t see JS coming back now.

    Option 2) There is always the chance that one of the cases against Barack Obama could make it through the courts and a new election could be held, producing not only upheaval throughout the country (readying the nation for these events) but also a new election with a new president-elect. No, I do not think Joe Biden would step in as president if that happened .

    Option 3) There is starting to be some buzz on the internet about what the “Illuminati” is planning for 2012. There is specific mention of Dec 21, 2012. May be it is nothing, but that would be almost 4 years to the day from your proposed date.

    Whatever happens, Barack Obama takes office next month and the country (and world) watch and wait to see the miracles he is going to produce to save the US from collapse. It won’t be but a short time until people figure out that there will be no miracles, the rhetoric will not slow the tailspin as people realize the economy is toast. May be he stays in office, may be he doesn’t, either way, the next scheduled presidential election will be in Nov 2012, and Obama will not be reelected as the country will be in shambles and he will not be near as popular as he is now. This means on Dec 21 2012 there will be a new President-Elect.
    If in fact the prophecy about the proclamation is still on track to be fulfilled, I would think the nation will be in a place more conducive to ushering that in then.

  15. PallasAthena, I’ve been praying for revelation concerning this issue. As yet, I haven’t received any communication, either for or against, but as my timetable isn’t that far off (only 22 days left), even if the Lord had decided to withhold an answer from me, I’d have one in about three weeks anyway…

    But, in all honesty, I’m expecting it to happen now, based upon the other revelations I’ve received. So, I’ve set myself up to receive immediate Google Alerts for any mention of “Joseph Smith,” “Sidney Rigdon” or “Nauvoo.” Although I don’t believe there will be an official Internet announcement of their arrival prior to the proclamation, I do think there may possibly be a news leak somewhere of someone claiming to be Joseph or Sidney and I think that Nauvoo would be a likely place for them to be spotted.

    At any rate, we’ll soon see if I am wrong about the inauguration.

    (It is kind of strange, really. As an anarchist, I don’t watch political events and was not planning on watching this one either, even despite its historic nature, until I decided it was a strong possibility of some party crashers showing up, so now I will be following it.)

  16. Well, to tell you the truth, I hope you are right. If times are going to get as tough as everyone predicts, it sure would be nice to have JS here to look to.

    I guess time will tell.

  17. Google Alert Update: Well, among the many daily Google Alerts that I get every day, I finally (just now) got one that mentioned Joseph Smith coming back from the dead:

    Matua and Joseph Smith Junior, a night at the Psychiatric Ward

    Of course, this came from a delusional mental health patient…

  18. Are there any examples of persons coming back from the dead and continue on doing works on the earth among the living????

    As I remember, there are statements by Joseph that sound like AFTER THE RESURRECTION begins, then persons will come back resurrected and continue the works they did in life.

    There is another possiblity: 2BC 31 says:

    11 Behold, ye have asked concerning the spirits,
    and how they act upon those who are living.
    12 Behold I say unto you, that those evil spirits
    (who followed after the adversary in the beginning
    because of their rebellion) were denied bodies–
    behold they continually look for a body to inhabit,
    and those who choose evil instead of good are their
    13 For by their actions they invite these evil spirits
    in to take possession of their bodies, and cause
    them to commit the most heinous crimes.
    14 Also those who have lived and have passed on
    and who are again in the spirit world and who
    have been wicked while upon this earth can also
    enter into and duplicate the sins they themselves
    did while in the flesh, and thus sin is perpetuated
    from generation to generation.

    l5 But I say unto you, it is LIKEWISE THE CASE WITH
    THE RIGHTEOUS, for the righteous spirits can enter in
    and influence man for good and their good works
    can be emulated through others.
    16 But in this there can be no coercion and all
    must be done in accordance with the free agency
    of man.

    By the understanding given in these words, the SPIRIT of the Prophet Joseph could enter the body of a living person, and influence that person to do the works that need to be done. The one like unto Moses spoken of in D&C 103:18-21 would not have to be Joseph. It does not actually say it will be him.


  19. LDSA,
    I came across a quote today that you might be interested in. It is from the minutes of the Minutes of Quarterly Conference at Kaysville, Utah on December 13, 1856. It was preached at that time:

    “that the day was not too far distant that Joseph and Hyrum would be with this people”

    I picked this up from my reading of the Mormon Reformation by Paul H. Peterson. As you may be aware, this was a time a heightened spiritual excitement. Many thought that the reformation was a precursor to events leading quickly to the Millennium. Of course, it didn’t happen as expected. The quote did trigger a thought of your recent post here.


  20. Richard asked,

    Are there any examples of persons coming back from the dead and continue on doing works on the earth among the living????

    Timothy from the Book of Mormon and Lazarus from the New Testament come to mind.

    Although I suppose righteous spirits could enter into living souls and influence them, I don’t believe this would fulfill the prophecy of Moroni concerning the name of Joseph Smith being had for good and evil among all people. A person “possessed” in this way might say he was Joseph Smith, but his real name would soon come out and people would refer to him as his real name. Whatever he did in the name of (and under the influence of the spirit of) Joseph Smith would still be regarded as being done by whoever the man really was. His own name, then, would be the one that would be had for good and evil. Most people would not contribute his deeds as being done by Joseph Smith.

    However, if the actual Joseph Smith did come back from the dead, and started doing deeds, and claimed to be Joseph Smith, Jun. (with no evidence presented that he was anyone other than who he claimed to be), most people would deny that such an individual was the actual Joseph Smith, Jun. come back from the dead, but would simply say that this fellow was another man called Joseph Smith, Jun. (a common name) and would refer to his deeds as being done by Joseph Smith, the name he gave to the world. This would fulfill the prophecy.

    Although many LDS might be tempted to believe the words and deeds of this “new” Joseph Smith, Jun. (who would really be the “old” Joseph Smith, Jun., come back from the dead) – and they would be tempted because his words and works would fulfill the prophecies- his claim of being the “old” Joseph Smith, Jun., returned from the dead, would present a credibility obstacle that many people would not be able to overcome. They would reject him solely for this claim, despite the apparent fulfillment of prophecy.

    The scripture you referenced (D&C 103:18-21) is not the one that speaks of the “one like unto Moses.” Here is the text of D&C 103: 18-21:

    And as your fathers were led at the first, even so shall the redemption of Zion be. Therefore, let not your hearts faint, for I say not unto you as I said unto your fathers: Mine angel shall go up before you, but not my presence. But I say unto you: Mine angels shall go up before you, and also my presence, and in time ye shall possess the goodly land. Verily, verily I say unto you, that my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., is the man to whom I likened the servant to whom the Lord of the vineyard spake in the parable which I have given unto you.

    I think you are referring to:

    Therefore, I will raise up unto my people a man, who shall lead them like as Moses led the children of Israel. D&C 103: 16

    It is true that this scripture does not specifically say that this man is Joseph Smith, but other scriptures all state that Joseph is “like unto Moses.” For example:

    And again, the duty of the President of the office of the High Priesthood is to preside over the whole church, and to be like unto Moses—(D&C 107: 91, Joseph, of course, held this office)

    But, behold, verily, verily, I say unto thee, no one shall be appointed to receive commandments and revelations in this church excepting my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., for he receiveth them even as Moses. (D&C 28: 2)

    And he shall be great like unto Moses, whom I have said I would raise up unto you, to deliver my people, O house of Israel. (2 Ne. 3: 9)

    And in a day when the children of men shall esteem my words as naught and take many of them from the book which thou shalt write, behold, I will raise up another like unto thee; and they shall be had again among the children of men—among as many as shall believe. (Moses 1: 41)

    Who else (other than Joseph) is compared to Moses? (Only Christ.) And whenever this scripture is quoted by prophets, it is always indicated as referring to Christ (and not Joseph), as if to say, “Although all other scriptures which compare a man to Moses are referring to Joseph Smith, Jun., this particular passage is referring to Christ.” For example:

    In addition to these, he quoted the eleventh chapter of Isaiah, saying that it was about to be fulfilled. He quoted also the third chapter of Acts, twenty-second and twenty-third verses, precisely as they stand in our New Testament. He said that that prophet was Christ; but the day had not yet come when “they who would not hear his voice should be cut off from among the people,” but soon would come. (Joseph Smith-History 1: 40)

    And the Lord will surely prepare a way for his people, unto the fulfilling of the words of Moses, which he spake, saying: A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass that all those who will not hear that prophet shall be cut off from among the people. And now I, Nephi, declare unto you, that this prophet of whom Moses spake was the Holy One of Israel; wherefore, he shall execute judgment in righteousness. (1 Ne. 22: 20-21)

    So, if all the scriptures which compare Moses to another (except for the above exception) point to Joseph, it is reasonable that the scripture in D&C 103: 16 follows this same pattern, and is referring likewise to Joseph Smith, Jun.

  21. Spek,

    As I indicated in a previous comment that I had been praying for revelation concerning this point, I have now received something from the Spirit. About an hour after I posted this comment on January 2nd, 2009, as I was reading and pondering the scriptures, the Spirit came upon me and gave me…and this may sound weird to many of you, as it was pretty weird to me…belief that Joseph Smith was now on the earth in the flesh. I did not receive confirmation (or knowledge) that he was here, merely belief that he was. As everyone should know and remember, belief is one of the fourteen gifts of the Spirit mentioned in D&C 46. Prior to that, I believed it was possible that Joseph could come back, but didn’t believe that he had come back. But I now believe that he is upon the earth in the flesh and has been here since January 2nd. I can’t base this belief on anything other than to say that the Spirit came upon me and deposited it in an instant. Nor can I say that I know he is here, as I don’t know that. But, based upon this belief given to me and the prophecies concerning the dispensations, I’d say that the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times (yes, the Watcher’s Fulness of Times Dispensation within the Last Times Dispensation graphic is correct, according to my understanding of the scriptures) started on January 2nd and I expect, now more than ever, to see someone claiming to be Joseph Smith showing up in the public eye real soon. I assume it will be before Barack Obama is inaugurated as president of the U.S.

    Although I am still receiving Google Alerts, I don’t expect to see any mention of Joseph prior to the time of his public appearance, as I suspect the Lord would have given specific instructions to remain hidden until the proclamation is written and goes forth, to take the entire world by surprise. After that, I expect the newspapers and television news and Internet news sources to more and more speak of this “new” Joseph Smith, Junior, helping to fulfill Moroni’s prophecy until everyone has heard of him and formed an opinion about him.

    Also, the belief I got was specific concerning Joseph. I received no belief concerning Hyrum, Sidney or others, though I do expect others will be with him.

    I am not one to shy away from what the Spirit manifests to me, even if it sounds absurd. When I received the manifestation, as I had nothing to base it on, – meaning, there was no scripture or anything to indicate that January 2nd was the day Joseph would be coming back, so why do I suddenly have this belief that he is now here? – as I said, as I had nothing to base it on other than the Spirit was upon me, I did a double check to ascertain that this was, indeed, the Spirit upon me giving me this belief and verified that it (the belief) came from the Spirit. The experience was a weird one, as I have received the gift of belief before, but always the belief was upon some word of knowledge, not some belief in something that had not been verified by anyone, at all. I still, to this day, feel like I am hanging in mid-air, not attached to anything with this belief, but I can’t deny that it came from the Spirit.

    I would feel better had the Spirit told me directly that he is here (knowledge) and am seeking confirmation to that end, but now my prayers to God are no longer worded, “if Joseph is here,” but instead are worded “now that Joseph is here…”, etc.

  22. So I have been thinking about it and discussing it with my wife and I have begun to question my own reasoning. I have a rough timeline of how events preceding the second coming will play out. The whole idea that Joseph would come back (prior to the big meeting on Adam-ondi-Ahman) was new to me and I was not sure how it would all fit in. For some reason I gravitated toward the section in the timeline where life on earth was pretty bad but not really bad. I decided life was too good right now and it would not be until later that he would appear. Hence my comment above.

    Then a comment you made got me to thinking. You mentioned that you expected the church would break apart before the government!!! Hmmmm…..I always saw those two events as somewhat simultaneous. As I studied I realized that life was pretty good for Lehi when he was commanded to leave Jerusalem, life was pretty good for the Christians (after the time of Christ) when they were commanded to leave Jerusalem. Both probably questioned somewhat why they were being asked to leave, the Christians who stayed lived a normal life for a couple of years, if Lehi had stayed, he could have lived a normal life for a couple of years…all the while thinking there never was a reason to leave. Going off of these examples it would make sense that JS would come back now, when every one is fat and happy a few years before any real tribulation, to see who would follow and who would not. Those who stay behind will have a few years to continue their normal lives, probably forgetting about the warning until it is too late.

    The Christians who stayed could not have gotten out if they had wanted too when Jerusalem came down. The time to obey and follow had passed.

  23. LDSA, what did you mean when you said, “I did a double check to ascertain that this was, indeed, the Spirit upon me giving me this belief and verified that it (the belief) came from the Spirit.” What type of check system do you have? If there is a scriptural reference, that would be great. I have been searching for a verification system for a while now. Thanks.

  24. PallasAthena, you bring up very good points.

    JL, to answer your question, here’s a little bit of personal history. The very first time I experienced a manifestation of the Spirit, before I was a member of this church, I didn’t know what was happening and didn’t recognize that this was coming from God. The second manifestation of the Spirit I received, again before I became a LDS, was such that I was able to plainly discern and immediately recognize that an outside power from God had entered into my being and communicated with me. Later I learned that this power was the Holy Ghost. But, the difference between those two experiences was profound. To this day, I only tell of the second manifestation when testifying to people, and leave out the first one, though the first one has left an indelible impression upon me. Anyway, I realized (after the second manifestation) that recognizing that the power of God (the Holy Ghost) is upon you is almost as important as the message being communicated, because it generates faith and dispels any doubt as to whether this comes from God or is a product of a frenzied mind or foolish imaginations.

    After these two manifestations, other manifestations came and I built up a body, if you will, of spiritual experiences, by which to judge all other spiritual experiences. And this is what I would do: whenever a new manifestation came upon me I would compare it with the previous ones and if the same fruits of the Spirit were there, I would be able to recognize that it came from the same Spirit. This was important, as not all the manifestations I have received have come from the good Spirit. I have also had experiences with evils spirits.

    Eventually, though, I reached the point where I no longer needed to stop myself and manually compare a new manifestation with all the old manifestations. I had finally come to instantly recognize the good Spirit talking to me. The Spirit had finally become “familiar.”

    Since that time, I have stopped the manual verification process that I used to do, as it was no longer necessary. It had become as easy for me to identify the Spirit manifesting itself as it was to recognize my own mother. In fact, there was one occasion in my life in which I was angry because of something someone had done and had decided to end all further contact. But apparently it was not the will of the Lord that I do this because the Spirit manifested to me and gave me information and instructions that I didn’t want to do (because I was pissed off.) It was the only occasion in my life in which I cast the Spirit off and told myself, “This is not the Spirit. This is merely a figment of my imagination and I am going to ignore this instruction.” Of course, I knew the voice of the Spirit very well by this time and I knew who was speaking to me, but I still made my mind firm in my decision. One week later, to the hour, I found myself in the same circumstances I was in the previous week and my mind was engaged in other thoughts when of a sudden the Spirit again came upon me and gave me the same message, but even more emphatically.

    Luckily, this time I hearkened to its voice and repented of my pretending not to recognize it. In hindsight I now understand what the Spirit had been planning with my life and I’m glad that the Lord gave me a second chance and that I listened and obeyed. Since then, though, due to this spiritual lesson, when the Spirit is upon me I snap to attention, listen and obey, whether awake or asleep. I have conditioned myself to do this.

    But the manifestation of January 2nd was, as I said, different than other manifestations, and although I immediately recognized the Spirit, I made it a point anyway to go through my previous verification process that I had been accustomed to perform in my earlier years.

    Sorry for the long response but I hope that answers your question.

  25. LDSA,,
    I appreciated the long message. Unlike you at your point, I am just coming into my own in actually recognizing the Spirit. I am trying to get those experiences so that I can develop that ability to snap and obey. I’m just an overtly paranoid person in this arena, being new. I’m getting better at it all the time. Comparing experiences is a good idea, with ones I can’t deny were from God. Interesting note to you, January 2nd was when the planets Jupiter, Venus and Mercury were all visible by the crescent moon at dusk. A sign in the heavens?

    I’m grateful that the Lord brought me to your site.

  26. Anarchist-

    I found your comment that a “belief” came over you that Joseph Smith may have come back on January 2nd intriguing..

    It is intriguing to me because your “belief” in an event that took place was not apparently related to anything specific that you were aware of that happened on that exact day.. it was just a feeling that came over you….

    I have wondered if the opening of the 3rd watch would be quiet and subtle at first, like the first vision which very few people heard of at the time it took place. For that matter the date of the legal restoration of the church was not commonly known by the world and the events of the ministering of angels to Joseph and Oliver were also kept very quiet…

    Anyway, when I awoke this morning the thought occurred to me that if January 2nd was the day that Joseph and/or Sidney or the First Laborers of the Last Kingdom were to return or to do something significant on that day, there might be a “date related” sign in the scriptures.

    I commented briefly in a previous article that there are certain reoccurring prophetic dates. For instance, there are dates in the month of April and September upon which prophetic events keep occurring:

    “Numbers and dates are integral in how and when God communicates to us. Dates have significant meanings. You can actually study gospel topics in the D&C according to dates that events and revelations took place. There are certain dates upon which religious events repeatedly take place. April 6th is such a date. September 21-22 in another. It is no coincidence that section section 64 was given on September 11 1831. It is no coincidence that the appointed time for the redemption of Zion was September 11 1836. It is interesting to note that Sept 11th has become a day associated with murder, destruction and Gods wrath. There are probably over 20 major events in history including the Mountain Meadows Massacre and the Fall of the Twin Towers that fall on this ominous date. Is this just a coincidence? Will there be future prophetic events on this date?”

    With that thought in mind, I wondered if Joseph smith had received a revelation on January 2nd… perhaps one that would interrelate with prophetic events in the 3rd watch.

    Of course that fact that a revelation was received on January 2nd would not necessarily be all that significant in and of itself, but if there was a revelation given on that date that pertained to the return of Gods servants and events relevant to what is taking place in the world at the time of the beginning of the Marvelous Work and the events pertaining to the transition between the 2nd and 3rd watches, now that would be something worth noting…

    Suppose there was a revelation given back on January 2nd of 1831 and suppose it did address many issues pertaining to what is about to take place?

    What if it admonished the Saints to “gird up your loins and be prepared”

    What if it reminded us that “all flesh is corrupted” and in need of a final restoration of the fulness of the Gospel?

    What if it revealed that the “enemy is combined” and provided information about a mystery about the secret combination that is about to take total control of America right now? What if it reveals “a thing that was had in secret chambers” back then that was calculated to “bring to pass our destruction in process of time”.. “the enemy in the secret chambers seeketh our lives”

    At this time when everyone in America is feeling so secure thinking the upcoming wars will all be on foreign soil and yet the revelation given on January 2nd reveals: “Ye hear of wars in far countries, and you say that there will soon be great wars in far countries, but ye know not the hearts of men in your own land….”

    What if the revelation is calculated to prepare our hearts and minds to be gathered out of Babylon: “And that ye might escape the power of the enemy, and be gathered unto me a righteous people, without spot and blameless…”

    What if there were a lot more keys in that revelation that would prepare our hearts and minds for what is about to take place?

    What if?

  27. OWIW, what if? LoL. When I read what LDSA had to say about January 2nd, my first thought was if that date was special. That was your influence. Thanks for the what if. Now I’m going to look it up. I appreciate being the beneficiary of your vast knowledge.

  28. JL

    It was your comment on the signs in the sky that got me taking the anarchist comment seriously… I didn’t mention those signs in my last post because when I googled “Jupiter, Venus and Mercury were all visible by the crescent moon at dusk. ” it appeared to me that those signs actually occured a few days before the 2nd…

    That is not to say that they are not significant or that something of import didn’t happen on that day… just that they did not appear to happen on the 2nd.

    If I am incorrect and you have a link.. I would appreciate it.

    Otherwise, thanks for the heads up on the signs in the heavens… it got me thinking any way.

    I am glad you are watching…

  29. OWIW,

    I remembered the news relating that those planets were going to be seen together and was advised on the 2nd to look up. The astronomical websites I viewed actually had the event occurring over a few days. Planets move, tough to lock them in. However, your question had me searching, and I traveled down a few roads that were unexpected. First, January 2, had two other events happen. The Quadranntid meteor shower was peaking that night. Second, on January 2, there was a new moon. After reading all the different blogs of LDSA, AEL and you, I wondered what symbolism a new moon had in Christianity or ancient religion. As well as in our scriptures. And who would of thought, that your discussion of the 2nd watch would get involved.

    In one of your blogs, you mention the scriptures D&C 109:73-4 and D&C 5:14. These two scriptures came up when I did a scripture search with the word moon. There are only a handful of D&C scriptures with the word moon in it and those two popped up. The phrasing they had, “fair as” or “clear as” seemed interesting, so I looked. Those two scriptures are the only ones that I found, where the moon is mentioned first. Usually in scriptures, you talk about the sun, moon and stars. That is the order they are always spoken about. I’ve been wracking my brain and searching more to find a connection or reason for it. Why list them as moon, sun and stars for those two moments.

    Any information you have would be great. I feel that there is something to discover in this. Thanks for the prompt to search and thanks to LDSA for mentioning a date.

  30. JL

    It is interesting to note that the two scriptures you identified both have reference to the beginning of the church coming forth out of the wilderness of darkness which is what happens when the 3rd watch or marvelous work begins to open up and Gods servants return to the vineyard to send the proclamation to the President Elect and to the Kings of the Earth as well as to give the final warning to the inhabitants of the world and to declare the gospel with the sound of a trump and gather the elect..

    I also wonder if the Jupiter Talisman that Joseph had on his personage when he was martyred relates to the signs in the skies… Joseph Smith’s planet was Jupiter; and two significant years governed by Jupiter were 1805 and 1844… I wonder how Jupiter relates to 2009? I also wonder if the Diagram of Jupiter on the talisman or the numbers on the Jupiter Table/Magic Square could provide any hidden treasures of knowledge…

    It may be time to re-read “Is There No Help for the Widows Son” again….


  31. I am by no means into astronomy. However, my whole life I have felt an awe as I looked up into the night heavens. I look up and feel that I can see God better. I don’t have a great knowledge of the planets, rotations, but I feel drawn now to understand it.

    Tracing the history behind the Jupiter Table/Magic Square was well worth the hours of reading. I love numbers and patterns. I believe scientists overlook many ideas and theories that hold truth. I found a website that gives a different perspective of our solar system. And this perspective holds that Jupiter effects our planet than anything else. Particular interest if the idea that there is a larger planet, whose orbit effects us. Kolob? And the Mayan calendar date of 2012? The graphic shows all those conjunctions happening at the same time, giving an energy pulse to the sun.

    Finding out that Joseph Smith’s planet was Jupiter is fitting. It was given him to restore the keys. His life effected us all, as Jupiter effects earth.

    I have been enjoying this search OWIW. After reading the article you linked, I think that looking at Masonry will be helpful as well. Oh, I found a website on hyperdimensional physics. That seems to have something to say about our universe. It’s a bit of a read, but may be interesting to you.

  32. I have never really been into astronomy either and am gaining a greater desire to understand it better. Apparently Abraham felt if was important..

    I would love to view the websites you mention..

    I am always..


  33. Tomorrow, the 20th of January, is the last time the proclamation prophecy can be fulfilled (until some other other inauguration.) If it is to happen now, it will happen tomorrow morning. I found the following article just now:

    According to a press release from the LDS church, two leaders in the church will attend President-elect Brack Obama’s inauguration.

    The press release says second counselor in the First Presidency Dieter F. Uchtdord [sic] and Elder M. Russell Ballard, a member of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles, will attend the January 20 swearing-in ceremony. Both men will also attend the National Prayer Service on January 21 at the National Cathedral in Washington D.C.

    In the press release LDS church head Thomas Monson says, “It is always an honor for the Church to [sic] represented at the inauguration of a new president.” He also added, “We send our best wishes to President-elect Obama and pray for the blessings of a loving Father in Heaven to be upon him and his administration.”

    (Taken from LDS Church will send two leaders to inauguration.)

    If the inauguration party is crashed, I wonder how with these two elders will react?

    [Edit: click Church Leaders to Attend Inauguration of President-elect Barack Obama for the official Church press release.]

  34. My daughter was pretty bummed that J.S. didn’t show up at the inauguration. She hangs on my every word and since I saw the signs pointing to his appearance and figured that the inauguration would the appropriate time and place, she did, too. She thinks that the next time this proclamation prophecy can be fulfilled would be in 4-8 years from now. In other words, the next time there is an “honorable president-elect.” However, I chose not to tell her that this doesn’t change my reading of the times and that the prophecy can still be fulfilled even now that there is no president-elect. I didn’t want to get her hopes up again. Better to surprise her.

    I chose to base my prediction of an inaugural appearance based upon a reading of D&C 124 in which it indicated the time of the proclamation, meaning that it would be released when a president-elect was still a president-elect. But, there is another way of reading it, in which it is merely indicating to whom the proclamation is directed, meaning that whoever is the president-elect at the time the instructions are given is the man to whom the proclamation is to be directed. This means that if J.S. has returned and has received again the proclamation instructions (found in D&C 124) sometime between November 4th, 2008, and January 20, 2009, in other words, while Barack Obama was the president-elect, the phrase, “This proclamation shall be made…to the honorable president-elect,” is the same as saying, “This proclamation shall be made…to Barack Obama.”

    Such a reading would still allow the prophecy to go forth soon, even now that Barack Obama is the president of the United States. As a result, I’m still keeping my eyes open on this one…

  35. My I suggest yet another way to interpret it…

    The word of God tells us that when the kings of the earth receive the proclamation from the marred servant they will “shut their mouths” because they had never considered what was being suggested in the content of the proclamation. Clearly they will be shocked. Most will not be very happy about turning their kingdoms over to a God they don’t even worship.

    “..the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/isa/52/15#15

    I would suggest that the proclamation was sent out months ago and the President Elect does not feel inclined to repent nor does he feel inclined to give any publicity to the cause. The Kings of the earth also have their reasons for staying silent about the shocking content of the proclamation..

    For all we know, it is the news contained in the proclamation that caused several political leaders in high places to predict with clarity that their was going to be a generated crises shortly after the inauguration. (in their minds, another Waco)

    The scriptures tell us that the kingdoms of the world will make war with the Lamb when they find out that he plans on overturning the kingdoms of the world..

    “And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,Thus saith the Lord God; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high.

    I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him. And thou, son of man, prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord God concerning the Ammonites, and concerning their reproach; even say thou, The sword, the sword is drawn: for the slaughter it is furbished, to consume because of the glittering..”

    Prophecy seldom unfolds the way we think it should.. perhaps we need to wait on the Lord and see how he chooses to bring about his marvelous work and the smashing to pieces of the kingdoms of the world.

  36. OWIW, my understanding is that a proclamation is a public declaration, or, as Merriam-Webster puts it, “an official formal public announcement.” It strikes me as odd that the proclamation would go to Obama, but the public is not aware of it, nor is there any way of finding out about it. Also, it was to be “with loud proclamation” and to go to “the kings of the world…and to all the nations of the earth scattered abroad,” so, delivery just to Obama doesn’t sound like it would fulfill those instructions. The inauguration would have been a perfect place to do it as the whole world was watching, but now that it has passed, the U.N. sounds to me to be a more appropriate delivery place.

    Also, my understanding is that the phrase “kings shall shut their mouths at him” means that kings will be awed into silence by him, not that they will keep what he says to them secret (and not tell anyone.) The Contemporary English Version translates the phrase “kings will be silent as they bow in wonder.” The New Century Version translates it, “Kings will be amazed and shut their mouths.” The Darby translation states, “so shall he astonish many nations; kings shall shut their mouths at him.” The New International Reader’s Version states, “But many nations will be surprised when they see what he has done. Kings will be so amazed that they will not be able to say anything.”

    Additionally, it is my understanding that this passage does not refer to the proclamation, but to the gathering, which comes after the proclamation. (See JST Isaiah 52: 15.)

    Now, there is more I want to say about my daughter: Yesterday, after we watched the inauguration and saw no one show up, I told her that another possibility is that the Obama is still technically the honorable president-elect because they messed up the words when he took office and that the proclamation could still go forth because he was still president-elect. But I wasn’t sure, so I looked up the text of the oath (it is in the Constitution) and compared it to the videos of the swearing in. There was a difference (the word “faithfully” was placed at the end of the phrase instead of the beginning), but it didn’t seem to me to be that big of a difference to warrant another ceremony. Still, I mentioned this to my daughter and told her not to be surprised if Obama were to get sworn in again.

    Then just now my daughter comes to me and says, “Did you hear the news? They swore in Obama, again!” To my knowledge, though, the proclamation was not issued between the two swearing-in ceremonies. However, as the second ceremony was done in secret, there is no way to know whether the second ceremony was done correctly. For all we know, they did it in secret and got it wrong again (perhaps purposefully?, as these guys love to break the laws!) and we still are operating under an honorable president-elect who has not correctly taken the presidential oath to honor the Constitution! Wouldn’t that just take the cake?

  37. I just came across this Letter to the Editor, titled, Where is the Prophet in America? Here are some quotes:

    I have a question for my friends and brethren. I know that the prevalent thought today is to pray for and support our new President. The question I have is this? Where is the prophet in America?

    Several years ago I wrote an article asking where the prophet is in California, where is Prophetic Voice in America. I was referring to the fact that California with the largest churches and ministries in America was unable to stop the removal of the cross from the Los Angeles seal while the Goddess Pamona’s image remained, and of course the gay marriage matter.

    With all of the super pastors and preacher. I heard nothing. Yesterday one of those super pastors prayed for the new President. I ask did he also charge him with a blessing and a curse?

    All of this aside, I say where is that prophet in America. While Paul asked us to pray for leaders, those leaders were not and did not claim to be believers. There is a higher bar for believers. I would expect Paul to be right in President Obama’s face calling him on his actions, just as John the Baptist was in* “KING”* Herod’s face costing him his head.

  38. No, I don’t think it is a public proclamation and no, the initial reaction of the kings of the earth will not be that they bow in wonder!

    Since the English language is continually evolving, I find it best to use the 1828 Websters Dictionary when studying the revelations given during the restoration period in Kirtland and Nauvoo.

    One of the definitions in said dictionary is “The paper containing an official notice to a people”

    Note first of all that, that particular definition is a written declaration on paper.

    This is consistent with verse 4

    “let it be written …”.

    Therefore, even though the messenger may also call upon the recipient “with loud verbal proclamation”, while delivering the written proclamation, it is none the less a written proclamation delivered personally.

    Note also that this type of a proclamation may be directed to “a people”, not necessarily to the whole citizenry of the world or even to an entire citizenry of a nation, a city, or a town, but rather to a specified group of people.

    This particular declaration is delivered specifically to those who govern.

    Most declarations are a declaration from the human “government” or “king” and directed to the citizenry that they govern HOWEVER this particular proclamation is being declared by the Lord God of Israel who reigns in the kingdom of heaven and it is being directed to the current governing institutions that govern the world.

    Again, reading the prophecy in context, verse 3 identifies which group of people the proclamation is being directed to.

    1- All Kings unto the four corners of the earth
    2- The President Elect
    3- All of the high minded governors of the nation in which you live as well as all governors of all nations.

    As you can see, this proclamation is directed specifically to the ruling powers of the world… it is not being given to the population of the world.

    Please do not confuse this particular proclamation with the call of the gospel that goes to the inhabitants of the world. They are two separate things.

    Although this proclamation may address the warning voice of the gospel within it, the message within it is specifically directed to the governing kingdoms of the world.

    Note in verse 5 that the proclamation will contain information about what will happen to “kings and authorities”… again, please notice that the proclamation is not directed to the common man, it is directed to the “kings and authorities” and it prophesies what will “befall them in a time to come”

    It is easy to assume that most or all of the kings and authorities will come skipping and dancing merrily to Zion to bring forth their gold and to submit themselves to the Kingdom of Zion, however prophecy does not support this.

    Although there may be a few authorities whose hearts are softened initially or at a later time after the death and carnage takes place, the word of God appears to indicate that it is the proclamation to the kings of the earth and the governors and the President Elect that results in the armies of the world gathering together to fight against Zion.

    Notice the following verbiage; Although the proclamation is to be written in a spirit of meekness, the worldly authorities are to give head to the light and glory of Zion. Because it is the set time to favor her(The Kingdom of Zion).

    The proclamation is giving notice to the kingdoms of the world that their time to govern has come to an end and they are now commanded to submit to the Kingdom of God.
    None of the kingdoms of the world are interested in handing over their kingdoms to a God they don’t worship or believe in.

    This proclamation begins the gathering together of the armies of the world to fight against Zion.

    Those that deliver the proclamation to the worldly rulers are to bear testimony fearing them not. Why would they fear them? Because the proclamation is, among other things, proclaiming that God is overturning the power structure.

    “And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,Thus saith the Lord God; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high.
    I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him. And thou, son of man, prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord God concerning the Ammonites, and concerning their reproach; even say thou, The sword, the sword is drawn: for the slaughter it is furbished, to consume because of the glittering..”

    The ominous point of the declaration is that it is time for the Kingdoms of the World to give way to the Kingdom of God! The proclamation and the testimony of the servant delivering it is to leave the Kings and rulers of the world without excuse that the Lord may visit them in the “Day of Visitation”

    Do a key phrase search on “day of visitation” and it will take you to Isaiah 10 which is addressed to those wicked rulers that “decree unrighteous decrees and that turn aside the needy from judgment, and to take away the right from the poor of my people, that widows may be their prey, and that they may rob the fatherless!

    Then the following question is posed;

    “And what will ye do in the day of visitation and in the desolation which shall come from far? to whom will ye flee for help? and where will ye leave your glory?

    Read the rest of the chapter, it is clearly speaking about the overthrow of the wicked kingdoms in the day when God does his whole work upon mount Zion;

    “Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed his whole work upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his high looks.”

    This is one of the chapters that introduces the Moses/Pharaoh type into the overturning of the kingdoms of the world, notice the Moses/Pharaoh word associations;

    “Therefore thus saith the Lord God of hosts, O my people that dwellest in Zion, be not afraid of the Assyrian: he shall smite thee with a rod, and shall lift up his staff against thee, after the manner of Egypt. For yet a very little while, and the indignation shall cease, and mine anger in their destruction. And the Lord of hosts shall stir up a scourge for him according to the slaughter of Midian at the rock of Oreb: and as his rod was upon the sea, so shall he lift it up after the manner of Egypt.”

    My last point has to do with the Moses type. If in fact the delivering of the proclamation by Gods servant represents the latter day version of the Moses/Pharaoh type when God’spu latter day people are delivered once again from a wicked leader, then we need to ask, did Moses publish a public proclamation to Pharaoh’s citizenry before he went to visit Pharaoh to deliver Gods people?

    I believe the answer to that is no. Moses and Aaron dealt with Moses and his court in private, they did not make a public proclamation to the people of Egypt.

  39. OWIW, asked, “Did Moses publish a public proclamation to Pharaoh’s citizenry before he went to visit Pharaoh to deliver Gods people?”

    The answer is no, but Moses and Aaron did, in fact, go first to the elders of the Israelites and perform the signs in front of the people, to the end that they believed. So, the Lord’s people were tipped off as to what was about to occur. Then, afterward, Moses and Aaron went in to see Pharoah. (See Exodus 4.)

    It is true that the proclamation is to go to the heads of State the world over, however, you left off one item from your list: 4 – “to the nations of the earth scattered abroad.” The phrase “nations of the earth” is another way of saying the tribes of the earth, meaning the tribes of the Gentiles, or just “Gentiles.” This proclamation is a sign to the Gentiles and their tribal heads that the Lord’s Second Act (the Strange Act) has begun. As we are Gentiles, this is a sign to us, as well. The sign to the remnant of Jacob that the Second Act has begun is different (found in 3 Nephi 21). So, as this is to be a sign to the Gentiles, we need to (and will) know about it, just as the Israelites needed to (and did) know about what Moses and Aaron were going to do.

    So, although, the Webster’s 1828 dictionary does have def. #4 in there, which states, “The paper containing an official notice to a people. The sheriff receives and distributes the governor’s proclamations.” The actual meaning of the word proclamation in D&C 124 is more in line with the first three definitions of that dictionary:

    1. Publication by authority; official notice given to the public.

    King Asa made a proclamation throughout all Judah.
    1 Kings 15.

    2. In England, a declaration of the king’s will, openly published.

    Proclamations are a branch of the king’s prerogative, and are binding on the subject.

    3. The declaration of any supreme magistrate publicly made known; as the proclamation of the governor appointing a day of thanksgiving.

    (Italics were done by me to stress the public nature of these proclamation declarations.)

    Again, Isaiah 52: 15, in my understanding of prophecy, does not refer to this proclamation, but to a later time when new records come forth, so kings shutting their mouths doesn’t really apply to this discussion. In fact, as you have correctly stated, many of kings will be incited to anger by this proclamation.

    Anyway, the proclamation may have already gone forth, as you have said, but based upon my reading of prophecy, this won’t be a silent event, but a loud event that will cause the powers that be to divert their attention from governing (enslaving) the planet to focus their powers upon prophets of God again in the land. And the Gentiles will likewise be apprised of the event. My understanding is that a repeat of Moses 6: 38 will happen, in that people will notice the Strange Act that will be unfolding.

  40. I never said the God’s people would not be tipped off, obviously section 124 is a pretty good tip to those who are watching.

    My point is simply that things can begin quietly between the servants issuing the proclamation and the ruling powers. Obviously, at some point in time the details of the proclamation will become known to the masses in general.

    A public proclamation was not initially made among the people that Pharaoh’s governed even though God’s people were tipped off.

    All of this is consistent with the prophecy of Daniel that points out that BEFORE the gospel stone rolls forth into the world, the stone needs to smash the toe of the image representing the kingdoms of the world.

  41. One of the points you bring up LDSA is about the proclamation. Sitting in class today, I was interested to find out that Joseph Smith did work on a proclamation. For the lesson about Nauvoo, Ill it had a portion of that proclamation. The manual said:

    • Read D&C 124:1–7 with class members. What did the Lord command the Prophet Joseph Smith to write?

    Explain that the Prophet Joseph Smith and others worked on this proclamation until the Prophet’s martyrdom in 1844. The Quorum of the Twelve then finished the document and published it on 6 April 1845.

    The proclamation was addressed to the kings of the world, the president of the United States, and the rulers and people of all nations. The leaders of the Church proclaimed that God had again spoken from the heavens and that the kingdom of God and the holy priesthood had been restored to prepare the way for the Second Coming of the Savior. They also declared:

    “We send unto you with authority from on high, and command you all to repent and humble yourselves as little children, before the majesty of the Holy One; and come unto Jesus with a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and be baptized in his name, for the remission of sins … , and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, through the laying on of the hands of the Apostles and elders, of this great and last dispensation of mercy to man.

    “This Spirit shall bear witness to you, of the truth of our testimony; and shall enlighten your minds, and be in you as the spirit of prophecy and revelation. It shall bring things past to your understanding and remembrance; and shall show you things to come.

    “It shall also impart unto you many great and glorious gifts; such as the gift of healing the sick, and of being healed, by the laying on of hands in the name of Jesus; and of expelling Demons; and even seeing visions, and convening with Angels and spirits from the unseen world.

    “By the light of this Spirit, received through the ministration of the ordinances—by the power and authority of the Holy Apostleship and Priesthood, you will be enabled to understand, and to be the children of light; and thus be prepared to escape all the things that are coming on the earth, and so stand before the Son of Man.

    “We testify that the foregoing doctrine is the doctrine or gospel of Jesus Christ, in its fulness; and that it is the only true, everlasting, and unchangeable gospel; and the only plan revealed on earth whereby man can be saved” (in James R. Clark, comp., Messages of the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 6 vols. [1965–75], 1:252–54).

    In 1975, President Ezra Taft Benson of the Quorum of the Twelve quoted part of this document in general conference and declared that the Church was once again proclaiming these truths to the world. He said:

    “As humble servants of the Lord, we call upon the leaders of nations to humble themselves before God, to seek his inspiration and guidance. We call upon rulers and people alike to repent of their evil ways. Turn unto the Lord, seek his forgiveness, and unite yourselves in humility with his kingdom. There is no other way. If you will do this, your sins will be blotted out, peace will come and remain, and you will become a part of the kingdom of God in preparation for Christ’s second coming. But if you refuse to repent or to accept the testimony of his inspired messengers and unite yourselves with God’s kingdom, then the terrible judgments and calamities promised the wicked will be yours” (in Conference Report, Oct. 1975, 48; or Ensign, Nov. 1975, 34).

    Now, there is only a portion of the document quoted and I don’t necessarily trust the beginning summary, but about it going to only the president. However, you indicated that there was nothing written. I was curious if you had heard of this document and found it to be more written by the 12 and so discounted it. Or, if you had never heard of it before. Thought I could pass it on for the readers.

  42. To limit any confusion, the information I pasted is taken from the lds.org website under Sunday School Teacher help guides. I do not know if the information is directly in the Sunday School manual.

    And, this is for you OWIW, I didn’t mean to leave you out of my intro. I’ve read many articles by you that include this section.

  43. Yes, JL, I have heard of this proclamation and have discounted it as fulfilling the prophecy of D&C 124. Thanks for bringing it up, though.

  44. I’m obviously late to the party…but thought I could add an interesting dimension here. That dimension is Joseph’s last recorded dream, which I’ve swiped from weepingforzion.com’s website. Here is how he had it quoted, and it certainly validates your opinion that he will indeed come back and will cause a division amongst the church, or at least certainly among those who argue with him:

    “You could understand a hesitant nature as Joseph turned and looked back. headed to Carthage jail for the last time. He had wanted to take the saints to the Rocky Mountains. He felt and had prophesied that they would go there and become a vast people in the shadows of that cathedral. They indeed did but Joseph didn’t go with them. He left a church in turmoil. Like leaving for vacation by saying good-bye to his irate baby at the babysitters house. Indeed, the lower laws have been embraced and the saints have shook hands with the Gentiles now. Joseph had much to worry about. It may have been the fault of a people unwilling to live Celestial laws in a Terestial existence but Joseph knew from several personal insights, including the two discussed below, that when the servants of God returned to make the house aright they would find corruption muddying the once clears waters of revelation. Anxiety over this is prevalent in the dreams below but lets read them to find parallels and what they tell us about us.

    “The last recorded dream we have in our possession is recorded below….

    “I was back in Kirtland, Ohio, and thought I would take a walk out by myself, and view my old farm, which I found grown up with weeds and brambles, and altogether bearing evidence of neglect and want of culture. I went into the barn, which I found without floor or doors, with the weather-boarding off, and was altogether in keeping with the farm.

    “While I viewed the desolation around me, and was contemplating how it might be recovered from the curse upon it, there came rushing into the barn a company of furious men, who commenced to pick a quarrel with me.

    “The leader of the party ordered me to leave the barn and farm, stating it was none of mine, and that I must give up all hope of ever possessing it.

    “I told him the farm was given me by the Church, and although I had not had any use of it for some time back, still I had not sold it, and according to righteous principles it belonged to me or the Church.

    “He then grew furious and began to rail upon me, and threaten me, and said it never did belong to me nor to the Church.

    “I then told him that I did not think it worth contending about, that I had no desire to live upon it in its present state, and if he thought he had a better right I would not quarrel with him about it but leave; but my assurance that I would not trouble him at present did not seem to satisfy him, as he seemed determined to quarrel with me, and threatened me with the destruction of my body.

    “While he was thus engaged, pouring out his bitter words upon me, a rabble rushed in and nearly filled the barn, drew out their knives, and began to quarrel among themselves for the premises, and for a moment forgot me, at which time I took the opportunity to walk out of the barn about up to my ankles in mud.

    “When I was a little distance from the barn, I heard them screeching and screaming in a very distressed manner, as it appeared they had engaged in a general fight with their knives. While they were thus engaged, the dream or vision ended. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Section Six 1843-44 p. 393)

    “In the dream the vineyard is likened unto Josephs old barn and property. The dream I believe, is a bit more specific than the below parable, speaking of the church proper and not the broader idea of the vineyard as a whole. Joseph begins by telling of its appearance being in disarray. He refers to a “curse” that has been put upon it. I can’t help but think this is a continuation of our condemnation, which started in Josephs day and our continual decline in revelation and celestial law.

    “Joseph views the place and is rather sad at its degenerate state. He even ponders how to fix it up (what a work that would be!). A “company” of men than come in arguing, tell Joseph it isn’t his, though they can’t seem to agree on who’s it is. They threaten Joseph with his life. Joseph says whatever, you can have it and determines to leave. This tells me that we are not talking about an eternal spiritual inheritance here, but rather a physical structure, as Joseph would have argued harder to keep it. Organizations, buildings, systems people who worship them, etc…the expendable part of the church. The guy continues to tear into him, but another group enters the fray claiming ownership. While these two parties are arguing, Joseph peaceably leaves.

    “Of course I liken this to the Servant, coming causing a stir amongst the church and its people and leaving to the wilderness out the backdoor (3 Ne. 21: 9-10). The servant steps in to the situation for a moment. His presence is alarming to those who are in charge. He states his right to set the church in order (section 85). They fight him over it, and he decides to take those who will come with him and turn the “church” (barn) entirely over to the hand of flesh.

    “When he/they leave its a sticky situation. Mud covers them which would slow the departure but mainly just leave unsightly residue that would need to be cleansed later, on all those who go with him. The mud would be cleaned and a better organization set up when they get to a new inheritance (JS-M 1: 27).

    See: http://www.weepingforzion.com/?p=25

  45. The Pophet Joseph Smith has been back on the earth for some time leading the church but nothing like any of you could imagine. Because gross darkness covers the mind of the people! He has been sealing up the law and binding up the testimony! he told Paul that I will take you one step further and you with out us cannot be made perfect Jesus decended below all things that he may rise above all things He also said that greater things shall you do, and he said that the Holy Ghost shall not speak of Himself, look it up if you don’t believe. Joseph said, that it oft times makes my bones quake when I think of the awful responsibility that we have to our dead and that every soul that has an exaltation comeing must be ferreted out! Joseph has decended even further, that He may relate to those in the lowest kingdoms! This is a eternal law and the same reason that Christ had to be sacrificed in the most excruicating way. When the Prophet Joseph comes forth none shall have an excuse, judgement has been laid to the line and justice to the plummet! Until that time He shall not come forth, and when He does the only way you shall know him is by the spirit of God and no other way because this is not a populairity contest! He only wants you to understand eternal principle, ” for the kingdom cometh not by obsersavation but is in you”. You must have enough deep spiritual convictions that will resonate with the higher laws to be part of the comeing ascension! Those that don’t shall burn as stuble. he is very aware of thiis and had been imprinting on the holorams of the divine matrix His experiences that all my receive it! Even the higher laws of the kingdom.

  46. The prophet Joseph, what would you like to know about him? Yes he is here working his ass off for all of you and none of you will know him unless you learn to worship the Lord in spirit and in truth and that is all he cares about. he is humble meek and lowly dang near a street person at least the last time I talked to him he was. Joseph Smith is the third member of the God head,and How do I know that ? Because he told me all about it. just like the song God is a slob,like one of us. He has a light for a covering in other words his intelligence blinds you just like the intelligence of Christ blinded all but his desciples. He came the first time as a great symbol this time he has come to live the symbol without the fanfare. Don’t ask to meet him his time has not yet come, but I will give you a hint you shall know him by his works cuz he don’t look like no Joe Smith that I know. He knows all about those kings and Queens and aristocracy types and yes they will shut their mouths when he comes forth. He has a bone to pick with ole Prince Charles and the rest of those freeloaders, and he is not too fond of most of the church leadership either. He told me the biggest problem with the members of the church is they don’t go by the spirit of God they are always running after some man to lead them along. And he really has alot to say about the government, He told me it shall never recover from it’s current situation but will steadly go down untill it shall have no power what so ever. The most impressive thing that he told me was that almost every one has grown as much as they are going to be and when that time has come he will take up the slack from there, he then told me to read Isaiah chap 66. verse 7. he told me that Jesus loves every one even the worst of the worst and weeps every time a soul is lost he said that bothers him more than anything and that if you saw Jesus weep it would just tear your heart out. he said He is the best friend any man could ever have and you know what I believe him! So if you want to know Joseph Smith when he comes on the scene then live your life by the spirit and even if you don’t he will still treat you as an equal he is just that kind of a man.

  47. Doesn’t the church teach that if something is revealed to you that is not revealed to the President of the church that you should hold those things within your heart and if you don’t the Lord will no longer reveal things to you. It seems to me that there are some false revelations here. I don’t discount the possibility of Joseph Smith finishing his work but I think LDS Anarchist is wrong on way too many aspects. As a faithful latter-day saint we should be centering our lives on the basic saving principles of the gospel. If we do this then we have nothing to worry about. Spending countless hours with unclear prophecies will lead to misunderstandings and confusion. Stuff like this fuels the fire for the already burning hot furnace of misunderstood gospel doctrine and gives additional resources to the critics of the church.

  48. Common JR did you miss the part that by the Holy Ghost you may know the truth of all things or how about the part d&c 1 that all men may speak in the name of the Lord and even mkore important the part that says you are santctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost ! The fact is Joel saw our day and said that every one would have visions and revelations, and if they are from God then they are a benefit to every one, Listen, when is the last time you heard anything earth shattering from the leaders of the church? If you don’t search the mystories it shall be taken from you even that which you have and it is the wise virgins that took the Holy Ghost to be their guide and were not hewn down and cast itno the fire. You were given the gift of the Holy Ghost now use it get your own revelations and share them with your brothers continues this process and your confidence shall wax strong in the presence of the Lord!

  49. There is no greater benefit to the saints than to identify with the Holy Ghost, and no greater danger than to identify with a man except that man be Christ and even Christ said than man must be born of water and spirit. The saints are the only people that believe in the gift of the Holy Ghost. It is sad to see the saints let an eternal oppurtunity pass them by. When the saints exercise their faith in the Holy Ghost they are fulfilling their destiny, the Holy Ghost goes hand in hand with the scriptures. If you want to get on the fast track of spiritual growth tell God that you will only go by the Holy Ghost and I promise you that your life will immediatley change and the mystries will begin to be revealed to you!

  50. “A Marvelous Work and a Wonder” Jhn:chap.16 verse 13 chap.16 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.” Many are beginning to feel and understand that the restoration of the gospel was only the tip of the iceberg concerning this marvelous work. I shall undertake to reveal this marvelous work in all of it’s glory. The Lord Jesus attempted to show to His desciples the signs of the last days and His comeing in glory. He said you shall see great signs in the heavens above and the earth beneath. before I get into details I will reveal to you the purpose of these signs or in other words the true function of these celestial events. D&C Chap. 1 verse17″ Wherefore, I the Lord. knowing the calamity which should come upon the inhabitants of the earth, called upon my servant Joseph Smith, jun., and gave unto him commandments;” The universe can be descirbed as a great clock work fulfilling it’s measure of creation. we as Gods off spring are a integral part of this function indeed it is for this purpose that it was created. It was created to function as a part of the process of our exaltation. This relationship is vital for our growth and progression. this relationship is being magnified at a quantum rate. Our solar system has been receiving a quantum wave from the galactic center that is increasing in magnitude and frequency by a factor of twenty. its signal is first received by the sun then relayed to the earth after which is received by the earths inhabitants. The deep spirtual convictions that you have in eternal principles will resonate with this signal and you also will be magnified by a factor of twenty. “No heart shall go untouched. ” The kingdom cometh not by observation but is in you” the greater the spiritual convictions that you possess the greater shall your individual progress be.These deep spiritual convictions should include all aspects of the gospel fullness so that you may receive even a fullnesss as recorded in the 93rd section of the D&C. Joel saw and spoke of our day Chap.2 verses 28-32 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood and fire, and pillars of smoke.31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood before the great and the terrible day of the lord come. Isaiah also has many revelations and details concerning our time. Isa chap13 verses 6-10 Howel ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. 7 Therefore shall all hands, be faint, and every man’s heart shall melt: 8 And they shall be afraid;pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a women that travaileth: they shall be amazed at one another; their faces shall be as flames These prophets are describing the symtoms of these celestial events. The greatest account of this time is given by the Lord himself in First Nephi chap 14 verses 7,10 & 14 For the time cometh, saith the Lamb of God, that I will work a great and marvelous work among the children of men; a work which shall be everlasting, either on the one hand or the other—either to the convincing of them unto peace and life eternal, or unto the deliverance of them to the hardness of their hearts and the blindness of their minds unto their being brought down into captivity, and also into destruction, both temporally and spiritually, according to the captivity of the devi, of which I have spoken.10 And he said unto me;behold there are save two churchs only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore whoso belongeth not to the church of the lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.14 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, and upon the covenant people of the Lord, who were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and they were armed with righteousness and with the power of God in great glory.
    Every spiritual gift, power, miracle, key of all dispensations are soon to be manifested by the righteous. The wicked shall not resonate with the quantum wave and shall burn as stuble. Between these to extremes shall be the rest of humanity. The timing of these events is best found in the feasts or the moeds of the Lord specifically Yom Kipur which deals with our Lords second advent these events are connected to the lunar cycles. When it is expressed as the moon should be turned into blood it is to be understood as a technical term for a lunar eclipse (blood moon) as also when the sun shall not give its light as a solar eclipse.Also there are other celestial events such as the galactic alignment with our solar plane, the procession of planets found in the Zodiac, and the great sign of Christ which is the return of a distant planet that will pass so close to the earth as to cause it to reel to and fro as a drunken man. All three of these events are due to occur in the year 2012. The Lord said “be therefore watching lest I come as a thief in the night and catch you unawares and your nakednesss be exposed” In the ancient temple it was a temple rite to keep the flame from going out there was always a priest there to keep it fueled and lit. if that priest were to fall asleep there was another priest that was to take the flame and set his garments on fire the first priest would wake to find his garments on fire he would rip his garments off and go running naked through the temple exsposed! The title or position of the second priest was ” one who comes as a thief in the night”. The first day of the fall feasts was known as ” No one knoweth the day or the hour” This came about due to the fact that during the time of diaspera, when the Jews were dispersed through out the near east they signalled the beginning of the feasts of the Lord with signal fires on the tops of the mountains, this occured when they saw the new moon that represented the beginning of the fall feasts. Which untill they saw it they knew not the hour or day. The father only knows the hour or the day when the Brides Groom shall come to receive His Bride, in anchient Isreal when a young man was to take a bride the announcemants would be sent out there would be a resonable expected time of the wedding. however untill the father had prepared a place for the new couple he would not give the exact day or hour of the wedding. Or in other words no man knoweth the hour or the day except the father only. The Lord also said that “you hypocrits you can discern the times of the seasons but not the signs of the times” so the Lord has outlined the time of these end times and those as spiritual leaders that donot know the sings of the end times are hypocrits. To sum it up to this point those that have testimonies of the gospel fullness shall soon receive a fullness as recorded in D&C sec.93 this quantum wave will bring to pass a great change in their bodies, so far this has been somewhat of an increasing gradual process increasing by factor of twenty. Many are already recognizing a change in themselves. Here are some of the most obvious symtoms of this process of change. A slight vibration felt mostly at night and when thinking or speaking of spiritual things. this is many times coupled with the hearing of a high pitched noise in the head. Seeing the flash of diamond like lights in the perifery of ones vision. These diamond lights are balanceing you. Seeing blue orbs while haveing spiritual insights or hearing a heavenly message. These gifts shall prevail amongst the righteous and spread from them to the rest of the church body bringing the devine matrix to critical mass, this in essesnce will be the millenium. A key I will give you, a righteous heart is a seven layered ocillating liquid crystal the master chakra that aligns and impowers all chakras of the body. The heart chakra is interdimensional and receives information / power from the divine matrix. The mind or conciousness of man is also interdimensional , both the heart and mind of man imprints upon the holograms of the divine matrix. This can also be said of mans dna when conditioned by the heart and the mind of man. When the shofar (trump) is blown by a righteous man a series or chain of quantum steps culminates in a powerful event. The quantum wave is collapsed to a more righteous state it happens thusly the air in the lungs is infused with dna this dna is conditioned by the seven layered oscillating liquid crystal as it passes over the throat chakra it is conditioned by the same and also the crown chakra as it passes through the shofar it is magnified. This powerful signal collapses the quantum wave towards a more righteous state and is key in defeating the enemies of righteousness. Posess a shofar blow it often and behold the power of righteousness. There are many other principles that can expoused at a future time deepending on our progress. Sincerely Brand Nu

  51. I didn’t read all the comments thoroughly (so sorry if someone already wrote this) but wouldn’t it be kinda funny or crazy if this happens at the next presidential inauguration and Mitt Romney is the president-elect?

  52. Yes Chris look at the last few comments of An Alternate view of the Keys and this idea is fleshed out, that Mitt will probably be the president elect in late 2012. There seem to be good evidence for it.

    LDSA it has been a long time since you wrote this post. But is #5 the new variable the fall of the conference center? I didn’t see that mentioned in the rest of the post. Which I admit I just skimmed over.

  53. dyc4557, it’s also been a long time since I’ve read this post. I wasn’t aware of the fall of the conference center when I wrote it. I admit, I had forgotten about that “new variable” revelation. I’m glad I recorded it here. I’m also glad you’ve brought it back to my attention. The only thing I understood back then was that it would be from the Lord, and not from man. So, if the conference center falls due to an earthquake (an act of God), that would definitely fit the revelation I received.

  54. So, where does the president-elect prophecy stand now, as far as President Obama is concerned? Is a sitting president who wins re-election sworn in again?

    As far as I can tell, I think Obama may still qualify as the president-elect spoken of in the revelation, if, in fact, he never got sworn in the first time (remember, it was claimed that he was privately sworn in by the judges because they messed up on the public swearing in ceremony) and they don’t swear him in this time around.

    Also, OWIW, do you still believe the proclamation went forth secretly?

  55. Is a sitting president who wins re-election sworn in again?


  56. The proclamation revisited

    Geez, it seems like every four years I come back to this same topic. I wish this prophecy would just fulfill itself already!


    I came across this today. Don’t know if it’s a hoax or real, but thought I’d share:

    BREAKING NEWS – Hawaii state registrar Alvin Onaka has publicly certified to AZ SOS Ken Bennett that Barack Obama’s HI birth certificate is legally non-valid and the White House image is a forgery.

  57. “This (D&C 85) was given before our Prophet Joseph Smith was taken out of our midst. Many of us no doubt thought when that revelation [about a man like unto Moses] was given that Joseph would be the man. I was in hopes it would be Joseph, for I had no idea that he was going to be slain, although I might have known from certain revelations that such would probably be the case, for the Lord had said unto him, before the rise of this Church, that he would grant unto him eternal life even though he should be slain, which certainly was an indication that he might be slain. But we still were in hopes that he would live and that he would be the man who, like Moses, would lead this people from bondage. I do not know but he will yet. God’s arm is not shortened that he cannot raise him up even from the tomb.” (Orson Pratt, J.D. 15:362-363)

    “The Spirit said unto me: `Lift up your head and rejoice; for behold! it is well with my servants Joseph and Hyrum. My servant Joseph still holds the keys of my kingdom in this dispensation, and he shall stand in due time on the earth, in the flesh, and fulfil that to which he is appointed.'” (Autobiography of Parley P. Pratt, p. 371; see D. & C. 105:16)

  58. Luke 16
    27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:

    28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

    29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

    30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

    31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

  59. “You will see, those who are faithful enough, the first you know, there will be strangers in your midst, walking with you, talking with you; they will enter into your houses and eat and drink with you, go to meeting with you, and begin to OPEN YOUR MINDS… About the time the Temples are ready, the strangers will be along and will converse
    with you, and will inquire of you, probably, if you understand the resurrection of the dead.” (J.ofD. vol 6p. 294-5)

    From Luke 24
    15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
    16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.
    18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a STRANGER in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?
    25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
    26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

  60. I just checked the link found on the #5 item of this post and the other blog has erased my original comments about the “new variable” revelation. I think I put it down here, in this post, because I didn’t trust it being on that other site. I am so glad that I did, because I was recently thinking about it and I couldn’t remember exactly when I received it. This post narrows it down to December 2008.

    Also, when I wrote this post, I wasn’t aware of any Joseph-Nephi person that was to appear, and so I thought that the “new variable” might be Joseph Smith. I’m actually glad to see that my mind, at least, pointed to a “Joseph” person. I’d say now, eight years later, that the variable is likely the Josephite’s faith.

  61. On the topic of a photographic likeness of the Prophet – an artist in Utah claims to have inherited a second-generation copy of the original daguerreotype from which the popular RLDS painted portrait of Joseph Smith was based: https://josephsmithjrphoto.blogspot.com/

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