Seven Shepherds and an Angel


Seven Shepherds and an Angel
By OneWhoIsWatching www.threewatches.blogspot.com

There are numerous channels by which personal revelation comes to each of us.

When studying and searching the scriptures, my wife provides one of these conduits for me.

She brings many things to my attention that I don’t catch… possibly this is because of her simple childlike faith and unassuming nature. It is probably also because she doesn’t allow preconceived notions to color her view of the scriptures. Of course the main reason is that she has been blessed with a spiritual gift in this area.

I will sometimes share a principle or some knowledge with her and then she will turn around at a later time and show me how to use that knowledge as a key to unlock additional knowledge. I sometimes refer to her as a Sibyl.  (“…women of antiquity reputed to posses powers of prophecy or divination… a female prophet…”)

While studying prophecy years ago I showed her Rev 12:14 and told her that some prophecy scholars believed that the word “time” = “one year”, the word “times” = “two years” and the phrase “half a time” = ½ year” hence, the Church would be nourished for 3 ½ years at some point in time:

“And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.”

She quietly cataloged that information. It would come up many years later in a scripture study.

Fast forward several years later…. we were studying Micah and noticing how he refers to the Seven Shepherds that are upon the earth at the time that invading armies come into the latter day land of Israel. This is also the general time period when the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles and among many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest to tread them down.

We wondered if these seven shepherds were the same seven servants of God mentioned in the 3rd and 4th chapter of Zechariah which are referred to as the seven eyes of the Lord who run to and fro in the whole earth.

We also wondered if these seven Shepherds that acted as the eyes of the Lord running to and fro in all the world could be the seven angels which had the seven trumpets and prepared themselves to sound in Rev 8 and/or the seven thunders that uttered their voices in Rev 10 or the seven angels having the seven last plagues that bring judgment upon the whore in Rev 15, 16 & 17 etc.

We could not help but wonder if these seven angelic beings lived on this earth in mortality prior to their missions in the last generation… in the 3rd Watch….And if so, is it possible that they had been part of the LDS restoration movement?

Possibly they were the first laborers in the last kingdom that lived during the Kirtland, Jackson County and Nauvoo eras of the Church.

We were aware of the LDS fundamentalist beliefs that there had been a secret quorum of six Apostles/High Priests functioning under the direction of Joseph Smith which makes a quorum of 7 Apostles. This cryptic Quorum was also known as the Friends of God.

This tradition, as with many corrupted legends and traditions, appears to originate from a true principle/event. It appears to come from the revelation known as section 84 of the D&C which states in the first verse:

A revelation of Jesus Christ unto his servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and six elders, as they united their hearts and lifted their voices on high” (D&C 84:1)

We found it very strange that the entry of this revelation into the history of the Church and the Doctrine and Covenants did not document who the six other elders were yet it did document how many elders were present… very curious.

It seemed odd to us that such an important revelation containing very specific promises to and about these six elders who had the higher priesthood confirmed upon them by the voice of God out of heaven would not bother to document who these elders were.

We perused various historical documents attempting to verify exactly who these six elders were but it is not an easy task to get an identity of these six players.

In section 88 these six elders are referred to as the “first elders” of the Church and the “first laborers in the last kingdom”.

In section 88 the Lord commands those who are not the first elders of the Church to continue laboring in the vineyard but he promises the first elders that he will send them into the vineyard again at a later time to bind up the law, seal up the testimony and prepare the Saints for the hour of judgment which is to come.

We thought that it would be fun to search section 84 to see if this quorum of Apostles will have a role in the 3rd Watch when the dispensation of the fullness of times and the Marvelous Work are ushered in.

It is worth noting that section 88 was given several years before the quorum of the 12 Apostles were called, Joseph Smith and these six elders were referred to as apostles by the Lord. He even calls them his friends. A favored status that few people other than Abraham ever achieved in the scriptures:

And as I said unto mine apostles, even so I say unto you, for you are mine apostles, even God’s high priests; ye are they whom my Father hath given me; ye are my friends.”

The thought that these brethren might return as a quorum to play an important role in the winding up scenes was intriguing to us.

As we poured over section 84 searching for hidden treasures of knowledge pertaining to the events of the very last days we were ecstatic when we read the incredible unconditional promise that Bishop Newel K. Whitney will return to warn the inhabitants of New York, Albany and Boston of the desolation and utter abolishment that await them if they reject the gospel.

Every time I hear of reports about nuclear suitcase bombs that have been strategically hidden in major cities like these and orchestrated terrorist attacks that are going to be taking place, I can’t help but think of this incredible promise and associated prophecy given to Bishop Whitney. He will come back and warn the people in these cities.

I think this warning must take place before major desolation takes place.

The Lord then gives an unconditional prophecy that the rest of the first Elders being spoken to in this revelation will also “go to the great and notable cities and villages reproving the world in righteousness of all their unrighteous and ungodly deeds setting forth clearly and understandably the desolation of abomination in the last days

And then the Lord reveals this most remarkable promise to these First Elders who are the First Laborers of the Last Kingdom:

For with YOU saith the Lord Almighty, I will rend their kingdoms; I will not only shake the earth, but the starry heavens shall tremble..”

The Lord who knows all things and cannot lie… the Lord who has infinite foreknowledge because all time, past, present and future is continually before his eyes, promised these specific brethren that they would be the ones to return to the vineyard at the time of the last generation to shake the earth and bring down the kingdoms of the world!

While we were pondering these amazing promises and studying this section my wife and I began pondering the following verses:

And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief and because you have treated lightly the things you have received. Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.  And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.”

We were aware of the several statements President Benson had made concerning the above verses and that he had inferred that the church was still under condemnation.

Dallin H. Oaks had given a talk at the Church Educational system Satellite fireside on June 1993 and had quoted President Benson regarding these verses. He claimed that President Benson had declared that the Saints had brought the whole Church under condemnation and that it was still under condemnation:

” President Benson had been stressing the reading of the Book of Mormon. Repeatedly he had quoted these verses from the Doctrine and Covenants, including the Lord’s statement that the Saints’ conduct had “brought the whole church under condemnation” (D&C 84:55). In that temple meeting, President Benson reread those statements and declared, “This condemnation has not been lifted, nor will it be until we repent.”

As we pondered the verses in section 84, it occurred to me that a the word of God was not saying that the conduct of all of the Saints in the Church had brought the whole church under condemnation, but rather God was saying it was the unbelief and vanity of those specific Apostles that had brought the whole church under condemnation! This revelation was being directed specifically to the first elders to whom the revelation was being given: And YOUR minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief and because you have treated lightly the things you have received. Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.  And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.”

As I was making this observation, my wife was making an additional one. She said something to the effect of:

Yes, I agree. Those specific Elders brought the Church under condemnation… And it appears that the Lord gave these specific apostles’ another revelation two years before he had given them this one. In that revelation he must have told them some things they took lightly… perhaps it was difficult for them to believe some of the things he had told them.”

I was really taken back by her observation. “How did you divine that deduction from those verses?” I asked. “What makes you think the Lord had given Joseph Smith and these six Apostles a revelation two years prior to section 84?”

That’s what it says” she replied. “Remember how the prophetic definition of the word “times” = two years?”

I looked at the verses again in context of how the word “times” was used in Rev 12:14 and then I realized what she was seeing:

And your minds in times past [two years ago] have been darkened because of unbelief and because you have treated lightly the things you have received. Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.  And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.”

I was shocked at her interpretation and began chiding her: “What have you been smoking? That is a HUGE stretch… Just because the word “times” had a prophetic interpretation in the vision of St John 2,000 years ago, in the New Testament, that does not mean that the same word would have the same definition in modern revelation!”

Finally, after brow-beating her for a while I decided to really drive my point home by showing her how easy it would be to prove that there was no revelation directed through Joseph Smith to six elders two years prior to section 84.

I said to her:

If your interpretation is correct, it would be easy to prove because such a revelation would be important enough to canonize in the Doctrine and Covenants. Such a revelation would clearly be directed to Joseph Smith and six elders just as section 84 was, and it would undoubtedly contain prophetic information about their ministry

I then went to the beginning of section 84 to verify what month and year the revelation was given. It was given in September of 1832. I then turned to the beginning of the Doctrine and Covenants to view the “Chronological Order of the Contents” section. I noticed that four revelations had been given two years prior to section 84. Section 28, 29, 30, and 31 were all given in September of 1830.

I then turned to section 28 to see if it was addressed to six elders… Just as I thought, it was given directly to Oliver Cowdery… no other elders were involved in receiving the revelation.

I then turned to section 29 and looked at the section heading. What I saw sent chills up my spine…


Revelation through Joseph Smith Jr. in the presence of six elders


Unbe-freakin-lieveable!


Again, the identity of these six elders is withheld… why? Why did Joseph Smith choose to withhold the identity of these chosen servants yet document the number of them that God was talking to?

I didn’t have much time for ingesting much humble pie at that moment as my wife and I were both quite anxious to devour section 29 to see what the Lord had revealed to Joseph Smith and these six elders! We were hoping that this section would reveal additional information regarding the role of these seven apostles during the 3rd Watch.

When we got to verses 7 & 8 we could hardly believe our eyes:

And ye are called to bring to pass the gathering of mine elect: for mine elect hear my voice and harden not their hearts; Wherefore the decree hath gone forth from the Father that they shall be gathered in unto one place upon the face of the this land, to prepare their hearts and be prepared in all things against the day when tribulation and desolation are sent forth upon the wicked.”

Wow…

These first laborers of the last kingdom will return to the earth as ministering angels to gather the elect to prepare them against the day when tribulation and desolation are sent forth upon the earth!

Could it possibly be that Joseph Smith and these six elders that will give the final warning, gather the elect and bring about the fall of the kingdoms of the world are the ones being referred to in Zechariah, Micah and the Book of Revelation?

Are these the ones that run to and fro in all the world as the eyes of the Lord?

Are these the Seven Shepherds that are the “peace” when God’s Promised Land is invaded by foreign armies and the remnants of the land tread down the unrepentant gentiles as a lion among sheep?

What an incredible thought, that Joseph Smith and the first elders of the Church would return to the earth to gather the elect.

Notice the promise given in Matthew 24 that before Christ returns in his glory he will send his angles to gather the elect:

For the Son of Man shall come and he shall send his angels before him with the great sound of a trumpet and they shall gather together the remainder of the his elect from the four winds and from one end of heaven to the other…” (JST Matt 1:37)

Just as Gabriel returned to the earth as a ministering angel to minister to the father of John the Baptist, just as Moses and Elijah returned to the earth to minister to Christ at the Mount of Transfiguration and just as John the Baptist and Peter, James, and John returned to the earth as ministering angels to minister to Joseph and Oliver, priesthood keys were given to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery in the Kirtland Temple. These keys enable them and the other first laborers of the last kingdom to return to this earth to minister unto all those who are found waiting, watching and willing.

Do you believe in angels?

I do..

I am married to one.



[Editorial note: It is not uncommon for the Lord to use the key words within differing sections of the four standard works to point to each other and help those who are searching to connect the dots, particularly when both sections of scripture are speaking about the same topic. Therefore it is possible if not likely that the 3 ½ year period of time spoken of in Revelation 12 is literally or typologically related to the last gathering that is to be done by the first laborers of the last kingdom.

I want to clarify that section 84 is actually a composite of two separate revelations given on consecutive days, the 22nd and 23rd of September. On the first day there were six elders present, on the following day, it is not clear if there were additional elders that were invited to participate in the promises the Lord was making to the leading elders of the Church.

The first laborers of the last kingdom more than likely consisted of more than just those seven elders being addressed during the revelation given on the first day. Interestingly enough, it appears according to the “Historical Development of the Doctrine and Covenants by Woodford that in the original manuscript of the second part of the revelation given on the 23rd, the following phrase was included and has since been taken out:

“The 23rd day of September AD 1832 Eleven High Priests save one”.

It is not clear what this statement is referring to. It could be referring to  the fact that Judas would be missing when the 12 Apostle from New Testament times return to judge Israel. Another possibility is the implication that four additional Elders were present on the 23rd bringing the total count to 11 and one member of the quorum of the 12 was not present.

There is evidence to suggest that the quorum of seven was part of a quorum of 12 Apostles that had been chosen by the Lord by 1832. This quorum appears to have more power and authority than the quorum chosen by the three witnesses. In fact at least two of the three witnesses were very likely part of the first, mystical quorum of the 12.

From historical sources it appears that there was some type of quorum of special witnesses long before the three witnesses was commanded to choose another quorum of the twelve:

“It was also announced that “twelve chosen witnesses, had been allowed to see the gold plates” (The life of David Marks, pg.340).  Also, there were newspaper references from 1829-1831 to twelve apostles in Mormonism.  September 1829 a Palmyra newspaper noted:  “the number of the gold bible apostles is said to be complete.”  (Palmyra Reflector, 23 September 1829. The issues of 19 April and 1, 22 June 1830 also make reference to Mormon apostles.)”  Mormon Hierachy: Origins of Power by Quinn]

One last thing on note pertaining to section 84, in the original manuscripts of the revelation it states that John the Baptist had been baptized from the womb, not at the age of eight days. This is consistent with the various scriptures stating that he was the transmigration of Elijah the Prophet and had previously been baptized before being born into the world as John the Baptist.]

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11 Comments

  1. I’m curious as to why you believe the command to Bishop Whitney was to be fulfilled during the 3rd watch. It appears that he and the prophet visited those locations from late September to early November 1832, immediately after Section 84 was received. Would you be able to elaborate on this thought?

  2. One of the interesting things about prophecy is that virtually ALL prophecies have at least a dual fulfillment… often times they have multiple fulfillments.

    For instance, the abomination of desolation that Daniel spoke of has multiple fulfillments. We know that it happened in the Old Testament.

    The 1 Maccabees usage of the term points to the actions of Antiochus Epiphanes in the mid-second century BC. Specifically, he set up an altar to Zeus in the Second Temple in Jerusalem, and sacrificed swine on it around the year 167 BC.

    In addition to the fulfillment in the Old Testament times, Jesus quoted this prophecy in Mark 13:14 as referring to an event in his “1st century disciples’s” immediate future, the siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD.[3][4]
    when you (1st cent. disciples) see the abomination of desolation standing…then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains”, Mark 13:14 (see also Matthew 24:15)

    Few Christians are even familiar with the miraculous events having to do with Pella and how the righteous Saints among the Jews in Jerusalem were able to flee just prior to the destruction of Jerusalem.. (Pella was a type of what will happen in the latter days)

    In addition to the two fulfillments that have taken place, we know that there will be a third fulfillment of this ominous prophecy in the end times.

    Many prophecy scholars have written about an event in the end time future, “the man of lawlessness”, or the “Antichrist” affirmed by the writings of the Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians will take place in a Temple of God

    “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.” Luke 21:20-21 See the latter day version of this prophecy in section 133

    Some equate the upcoming event with the prophecy in 2 thes where the “man of sin” the “son of perdition” sits in the Temple of God, claiming to be God. The third fulfillment of the abomination of Desolation is coming up.

    The prophecy in Malachi regarding “he shall send Elijah the prophet before the great and dreadful day of the Lord” is another wonderful example of how prophesies have multiple fulfillment.

    We know that John the Baptist was a fulfillment of that prophecy when he prepared the way before Christ in the New Testament times, interestingly, he personally fulfilled it again when he revealed the priesthood to Joseph and Oliver during the LDS foundation movement…

    but the Inspired version reveals that there was to be an Elias (greek for Elijah) the “preparer” and an Elias the “restorer”. This prophecy will yet be fulfilled again in the end times.

    (Joseph Smiths discourse on Elijah, Elias and Messiah alludes to this as well.)

    This concept of multiple fulfillments of prophecy is addressed as Christ explained to the Nephites that all of the words that Isaiah spoke “have been and shall be”.

    In the case of Isaiah, each of his prophecies has both a “shadow” or “typological” fulfillment as well as a “literal” fulfillment.

    When Christ stood before the congregation and quoted the prophecy about declaring the “acceptable day of the Lord” and told them that the prophecy had been fulfilled that day.. they of course considered his declaration blasphemous and rejected him and tried to kill him.

    Certainly he was fulfilling the words of Isaiah, and yet, if you read that chapter of Isaiah carefully, in context, the literal fulfillment has reference to the future.

    Hence in section 98 we see the Lord bestowing the honor of declaring the acceptable year of the Lord upon Sidney Rigdon..

    Did the Spokesman from the loins of Judah fulfill his assignment in the 2nd Watch? Will he or someone else fulfill it again in the 3rd watch? I appears so.

    So getting back to Bishop Whitney, he was to warn the inhabitant of these cities of the desolation and of their utter abolishment if they do reject the sound of the gospel.

    Certainly he did visit them and warn them. Notice however that the consequences of them rejecting the gospel would be the “desolation and utter abolishment”.

    In responding to someone else on my blog regarding evidence #52 that the Marvelous Work was to start at a later time after the foundation work:

    “One of the fascinating things is that in some ways there almost appears to be a “time warp” between the 2nd and 3rd watch wherein events simply begin in the 3rd watch where they ended in the 2nd watch…”

    I would submit that Bishop Whitney will take up in the 3rd Watch where he left off in the 2nd Watch

    Clearly, the inhabitants of New York, Albany and Boston as a whole, rejected the sound of the Gospel. One would ask, why did life go on as usual for these people? Why were they not utter abolished? Why were there no consequences of their rejection of the Gospel?

    The commandment given to Bishop Whitney merges into the commandment given to the other Elders being spoken to in this commandment and they are told to go the “notable cities and villages reproving the world in righteousness of all their unrighteous and ungodly deeds setting forth clearly and understandingly the desolation of abomination in the last days.”

    Finally this great secret is revealed

    “for with YOU saith the Lord Almighty, I will rend their kingdom; I will not only shake there earth, but the starry heavens”

    From the infallible word of God we are told that the Lord is going to use the first elders of the last kingdom, to rend the kingdoms of the world!

    Did that happen back during the 2nd watch? NO!

    Do we believe and worship an impotent God that does not deliver on his unconditional promises? NO!

    He has turned his face from us for but a short while just has he did anciently when he cast Israel out if his sight but that will change suddenly.

    Verily, the word of the Lord shall be fulfilled when the first laborers in the last kingdom return in their second commission to fulfill their callings.

    It is interesting to note that later, in section 103 the Lord promised these elders that if they were obedient, they would, from that very hour, begin to prevail against the Kingdoms of the World but that if they were not obedient, the kingdoms of the world would prevail against them.

    Notice the following scripture very carefully because it reveals the current state of the world and the “club”

    “But verily I say unto you, that I have decreed a decree which my people shall realize, inasmuch as they hearken from this very hour unto the counsel which I, the Lord their God, shall give unto them. Behold they shall, for I have decreed it, begin to prevail against mine enemies from this very hour. And by hearkening to observe all the words which I, the Lord their God, shall speak unto them, they shall never cease to prevail until the kingdoms of the world are subdued under my feet, and the earth is given unto the saints, to possess it forever and ever. But inasmuch as they keep not my commandments, and hearken not to observe all my words, the kingdoms of the world shall prevail against them.”

    Who has prevailed during the last 170 years, the kingdom of the world or the kingdom of God?

    Clearly, when the light shines forth among those that sit in darkness, and the Marvelous Word begins and the Dispensation of the Fulness of times come in, Bishop Whitney will return and warn the inhabitants of these cities. Those that repent and flee will be saved, those that don’t will be utterly destroyed.

  3. […] Seven Shepherds and an Angel […]

  4. […] Seven Shepherds and an Angel […]

  5. OWIW…I was very suprised to recive a call rom you the other day. I’m sure you called before reading my last comment on this post.

    We have obviously devleoped a diiferent paradigme in regaurd to the players of the third watch. My phone died before I had a better chance to explain my point of view.

    Believe me when I say that my view is not solely based on my understanding of the Scriptures…To the contrary, it is my personal experience with our Brother and Fatther in Heaven that is corraberated by the Scriptures when viewed from the COSMIC PERSPECTIVE I mentioned to you on the phone.

    The Scriptures say that when the Spirit is sent from the presence of the Father nad Son …That he will not speak of Himself but speak only that which He is commanded by God to speak.

    That dose not mean that He is not permitted to idendify Himself to those He chooses.

    I Testify to you in the name of our Brother Jesus Christ, that what I teel you is true.

    He along with our Father in Heaven , came to me 35 years ago and gave me instructions and Visions pertaining to a Great Work they had for me to do in the Future.

    I’m not telling you these things in hopes of gathering a following…Quite the contrary…The following will occure only AFTER Father in Heaven initiates the Great & Marveluose Work HIMSELF, as the Scriptures tell all of us and as He has personally made very clear to me.

    They spent a full week with me off and on imparting the understanding of these things they wanted me to know before leaving me for the final time and proclaiming me the unconditional Promise that we were to meet again when the time was ripe for these things to come to pass.

    Bear in mind that I was not a member of thier Church nor any Church for that matter , nor had ever read the first page of the Bible.,and I have had to search the meaning of these things out for 35 years since those profound experiences occured in my life when I was 20 years old.

    They informed me of the existance of thier Established Church on the Earth a that time and sent the Missionarries to me the same day they departed me.

    The rest is History and soon to be personal and Scriptural Prophecy fulfilled.

    There is much more to these Visions and occurances in my life and the life of my Family than could be explained in a few words.

    I just want you and your Friends to know that my Brother and Father have indeed taught me a certain perspective from witch to interpret ALL Prohecy and Grnad Signs that they have given us to know the NEARNESS of His coming and my own coming to prepare the way before Him.

    What I tell you is TRUE.

    I’m not seeking your approval or alliegence. What ever future following the Lord intends me to gather will be in accordance to His will and time.

    But I can impart some very valuble information about Signs and Gospel perspective that you can ponder, pray over and consider.

    You and your friends are so close to having your Gospel vision unobscured by your efforts to seek out the Truth, that I wanted to reward you for your efforts.

    Someone has to be the “REAL DEAL” is that not correct ? And He must already be here.

    Don’t judge me for the Fantasic claim I make…Judge me for the Content of what I could tell you by the Spirit given to you to reviel the Truth of ALL THINGS.

    All of you have obviously a profound Love for the Lord and His Gospel.

    Do you want to have more to consider and pray over ?

    I would need to meet with you in person to convey these things not only because it is much easier to covey that way, but also for you to get a good look at and feel out the Man with a message you have not yet heard.

    I LOVE you guys for the BRAVE AND VALIANT SPIRITS THAT YOU ARE.

    I understand your desire to remain anonymous .

    Understand that my personal position was exposed 12 years ago and that my release from the Church was directed by the FIRST PRESIDENCY of the Church.

    This is why I freely give my name and phone #.

    I don’t think they pay me close attention as I have always been very submissive of thier instructions to me and have Lovingly supported my Brothers and sisters and My Brothers Church that has been HI-JACKED.

    They have simply CATOGORIZED me among the many who have made unusual claims.

    I don’t think you have to fear they are tracking my every move.

    I have been at rest and peace for 12 years now as far as they are concerned.

    In regard to the NEARNESS of the STRANGE ACT to be initiated by our Father….Do you recall the episode of the Woman who came up behind Jesus while moving through the crowed on His way to the home of Jarious to bring his daughter back to life, and she was healed by touching the Hem of His Garment ?

    Do you recall that it makes mention that she was afflicted with a Bloody Issue, that up to that point, had lasted for 12 YEARS ?

    Many signs have already been descerned by people in and out of the Church who have it correct to believe we have already entered the Final End Period.

    Certain things will now occure on CERTAIN DAYS according to the LORDS RECKONING of time that He has given all of to know once someone who is able to read the SIGN…DOSE IT.

    These things will become apparent to all who seek them once they are taught of thier exisitence and interpretation, after these things have occured, to serve as a Testimony of God and HIS RECKONING of TIME and EVENTS.

    But for those who have VALIANTLY sought the TRUTH, the Lord will make an exception.

    Who now wants to know and decide for yourselves ?

  6. I don’t have the time today to correct my speeling errors as ther are always many. I’m sorry and a bit embarrassed by this. I droped out of High Shool and have never been much in accademics. What I do manage has only come through years of intensive study and reading but I am still not an accademic.

  7. Could the six apostles be the ones who wished to stay on earth in the time of Jesus (3 jews & 3 nephites) until he comes back a second time?

    Just a thought…

  8. from david whitmer’s ‘an address to all believers in christ’

    “In this month I was baptized, confirmed, and ordained an Elder in the Church of Christ by Bro. Joseph Smith. Previous to this, Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery had baptized, confirmed and ordained each other to the office of an Elder in the Church of Christ. I was the third person baptized into the church. In August, 1829, we began to preach the gospel of Christ. The following six Elders had then been ordained: Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery, Peter Whitmer, Samuel H. Smith, Hyrum Smith, and myself. The Book of Mormon was still in the hands of the printer, but my brother, Christian Whitmer, had copied from the manuscript the teachings and doctrine of Christ, being the things which we were commanded to preach. We preached, baptized and confirmed members into the Church of Christ, from August, 1829, until April 6th, 1830, being eight months in which time we had proceeded rightly; the offices in the church being Elders, Priests and Teachers.

    [p. 33]
    Now, when April 6, 1830, had come, we had then established three branches of the “Church of Christ,” in which three branches were about seventy members: One branch was at Fayette, N.Y.; one at Manchester, N.Y., and one at Colesville, Pa. It is all a mistake about the church being organized on April 6, 1830, as I will show. We were as fully organized — spiritually — before April 6th as we were on that day. The reason why we met on that day was this; the world had been telling us that we were not a regularly organized church, and we had no right to officiate in the ordinance of marriage, hold church property, etc., and that we should organize according to the laws of the land. On this account we met at my father’s house in Fayette, N.Y., on April 6, 1830, to attend to this matter of organizing according to the laws of the land; you can see this from Sec. 17 Doctrine and Covenants: the church was organized on April 6th “agreeable to the laws of our country.”

    It says after this, “by the will and commandments of God;” but this revelation came through Bro. Joseph as “mouthpiece.” Now brethren, how can it be that the church was any more organized — spiritually — on April 6th, than it was before that time? There were six elders and about seventy members before April 6th, and the same number of elders and members after that day. We attended to our business of organizing, according to the laws of the land, the church acknowledging us six elders as their ministers; besides, a few who had recently been baptized and not confirmed were confirmed on that day; some blessings were pronounced, and we partook of the Lord’s supper.”

  9. Dallon

    The historical quotes above are not accompanied by any commentary, however, I suspect that the purpose of the quotes has to do with determining who the servants are that are referred in section 29. (and probably 84)

    I think that is a great find, regarding this mystery.

    Although I have read David Whitmer’s address several times over the years, it never occurred to me to associate that information with the theme of the article above.

    I agree that the following list taken from the quotes above provide a compelling possibility for identifying six of the seven elders.

    Shortly after the New York saints migrated to Kirtland, many of the elders were ordained high priests. Some of them were commanded to move to the land of Zion while others were commanded to stay in Kirtland.

    Joseph Smith………..Friend of God from Kirtland
    Oliver Cowdery……. Friend of God from Kirtland
    David Whitmer………Called and Chosen from Zion
    Peter Whitmer………Called and Chosen from Zion
    Samuel H. Smith……Friend of God from Kirtland
    Hyrum Smith………..Friend of God from Kirtland

    We still need to somehow surmise who the seventh servant is.

    I have recently come upon a fascinating un-canonized revelation that I have never been aware of before.

    The revelation was given in regard to section 105:33-37.

    Those passages given to the elders at Zion’s Camp appear to refer to a group of Kirtland High Priests, called the “First Elders”, that had previously been called the “Friends of God”. The Lord states that it is expedient for them to get their endowment from on high in the Kirtland Temple which had not yet been built.

    Following that declaration, the Lord commands Joseph to identify, by revelation, those Elders that are to be both called and CHOSEN.

    (many of the 23 high priests ordained at the special conference at the Morley Farm were only called but not chosen (see 95:5)

    Few people realize it, but the following day, on June 23 1834, the Lord chose 15 Elders out the men from Zions Camp to become sanctified. Joseph chose to not publish the revelation in the D&C.

    All fifteen of the chosen elders were HIGH PRIESTS.

    All fifteen of the chosen elders were from the land of Zion.

    Unfortunately, one of the 15 high priests rejected the call from God, stating that he would rather die than preach the gospel to the gentiles. He was struck dead with cholera a few days later.

    In an amazing ceremony BEFORE the completion of the Kirtland Temple the High Priests from both Kirtland and Zion were “anointed” preparatory to the time when they will once again assemble and receive the promise of the Father and an endowment of power from on high.

    Interestingly, four of the six people identified on the list above are listed among the “friends of God” from Kirtland and two of them are identified among the “called and chosen” from Zion.

    I am guessing that the seventh elder that section 29 pertains to is one who eventually became one of the called and chosen from Zion.

    John Whitmer is a good possibility and would make three Whitmer’s in Zion vs. three Smith’s in Kirtland.

    This information is significant in identifying many of the servants that will return to gather the strength of the Lords house in redeeming Zion…

    Thanks for bringing that documentation to my attention !!!!!!!!!!!!

  10. When reading the comments about about leaders of Jospeh’s day returning to perform the labors of zion, I feel a sense of reading too much into types that are meant to have multiple parallels.

    Parallelism of the past has never suggested the return of the same individuals of the past, who fulfill anything more than delivering Keys or Messages to those who actually fulfill those future roles on earth.

    To suggest that Joseph & 6 others will come to perform the extended primary earthly roles of establishing zion, flies in the face of any president of the past. Surely those roles are to be played out beyond the veil in their proper context of having already performed the works on earth they were sent to do.

    For instance…Moses was the first to be commanded to try to establish a people with a zionist relationship with God but failed. That effort in & of itself was not a crime but simply didn’t pan out…No surprise to God.

    But if your assumptions are correct, shouldn’t it be Moses to establish the final attempt at establishing zion as opposed to Joseph Smith ? And if not, then what gives Joseph a greater right to do this ?

    I believe what makes more consistent typological sense, is that work is being performed on both sides of the veil. God’s Children who have come to this earth in their own time have done what they were asked to do. Once that has been accomplished, their work continues on the other side of the veil according to the conditions that rule upon which ever side of the veil we happen to be occupying.

    For Joseph and his friends to come back to this side of the veil to perform the main works that are dedicated to those who have labored on this side of the veil, during a time much more demanding than the times of the beginning of the Restoration, then what gives Joseph the experience or right to perform a funtion that is beyond his experience ? Or even Moses for that matter ?

    We all continue the work we began on this earth when we pass beyond the veil. Does this progression we began here on earth, cease when passing on ? I don’t think so. It continues in LIKE manner but under a different set of circumstances.

    So to all of a sudden in time, for the past paradigms of types & dualism, should all of a sudden take a sharp departure from established patterns of the past ? It makes no sense.

    It would be like we on earth at this time, were standing in line to see a movie we have never seen before. Then all of a sudden, a group of people butt in line before us and claiming their right to do so because they had already seen the movie. That makes absolutely no sense at all. Yet Jospeh, as much as I Love Him, would not be welcome to butt in line, regardless of someone’s insistance that he do so.

    He already experienced the conditions & trials of his time on earth, which do not qualify him to be able to understand the rigors of a world that is far more degenerate than the world of his day. It would be like God sending back Ben Franklin to establish our nation’s Power Grid System just because he discovered electricity. He did his part. The Power Grid was intended for someone else to establish. So too, with the establishment of zion. Yet Joseph & his 6 friends do continue their owrk on their side of the veil & we on our’s.


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