A Knowlege of the Stars


5,127 words

© Anthony E. Larson, 2007

a knowledge of the stars

What Joseph Smith Taught the Early Saints

I advised all to search deeper and deeper into the mysteries of Godliness. (Joseph Smith, History of the Church 6:363.)

I also gave some instructions in the mysteries of the kingdom of God; such as the history of the planets, Abraham’s writings upon the planetary systems, etc. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 118.)

The heavens and the earth that we see now are not those seen by our ancestors. As the reader will see herein, this is the lesson that Joseph Smith and all the prophets taught. This is a lesson that every modern Saint who seeks to better understand the scriptures, the words of the prophets and the temple experience would do well to study carefully.

If we are to believe the scriptures and modern prophets, those who lived before Noah’s flood experienced a wholly different environment than that which we see today—something modern science flatly denies. This transformation of the sky above us and the earth beneath our feet is one of the primary themes of revelation, ancient and modern, reflected in the oft-repeated scriptural phrase, “new heavens and new earth.” (See the included monograph by this author entitled “New Heaven, New Earth” for a more complete explanation.)

Because this concept is so well established in the scriptures, it should come as no surprise to any Mormon. Yet, when the implications and ramifications behind this bit of poetic prose are explained, church members almost universally react with surprise and incredulity, followed by skepticism and suspicion, even though this concept is fundamental to understanding the scriptures and the prophets and puts an entirely different light on many other concepts or principles within the restored gospel. (See “A Gospel Litmus Test,” “Modern Signs,” and “Stars, Planets, Moons and Temples.”)

This state of affairs points out a conceptual weakness unique to today’s Saints. They are universally astounded to learn that early church leaders espoused cosmological views that are at variance with those we hold today. What may be needed is a perspective shift that would return today’s members to the views of the early church as they relate to ancient history and related astral events, a reorienting of our modern cosmological viewpoint to bring us into harmony with the founder of this church and early church leaders. To do that, we must examine some long neglected statements, from Joseph Smith and others, down to the present day. (See “The Golden Question” and “Signs of the Times.”)

In order to establish a corrected view of ancient planetary history in the minds of modern Saints, it is useful to consider statements from several church leaders and other members who report learning their views from the Prophet himself.

Brigham Young

Let’s begin with a view of the very earliest history of this Earth given us by the second prophet of this dispensation. In a conference address, President Brigham Young said, “When the earth was framed and brought into existence and man was placed upon it, it was near the throne of our Father in heaven. And when man fell … the earth fell into space and took up its abode in this planetary system and the sun became our light.

This is the glory the earth came from, and when it is glorified it will return again unto the presence of the Father ….” (Journal of Discourses, 17:143.)

When taken as a factual account rather than simply an allegorical statement, as it was likely intended, this observation is fraught with greater meaning.

First and foremost, it tells us that our Earth has not always orbited our Sun. It implies that this planet was located somewhere outside this solar system, only to later find its way into its present orbit.

Of course, such a notion flies in the face of modern astrophysical theory, which asserts that our Earth, along with the rest of the planets in the present solar system, coalesced from a nebular cloud that once surrounded our sun and that it has always been approximately where it is now.

This immediately puts the Saints on the horns of a dilemma, one that we will confront time and again in this narrative: Do we believe the concepts of modern science when they contradict the teachings of modern prophets? Or, do we place our faith in revealed truth rather than mainstream science? Where do our allegiances truly lie? Though most of us will give lip service to the belief that the words of the prophets prevail, in practice we act upon and view the world with the precepts of science. All Saints live with this dichotomy. (See “Children of the Light,” Eschatus, Vol 1, No. 1.)

It is to revelation, given through modern prophets, that we must turn for the final answer rather than science and its dependence upon the “precepts of men.”

Getting back to the statement itself, some will surely dismiss President Young’s declaration as purely allegorical rather than literal. They will say that this avoids the problem of dismissing the views of modern science in order to accept the words of a prophet, immediately settling the question without looking further.

Naturally, this is a valid observation, but it leaves us where we began our discussion, with a number of unanswered questions and the dissatisfaction of knowing that we may have overlooked some vital truths or misinterpreted the prophet’s meaning. Whereas, if we set this objection aside, temporarily suspending judgment until we can explore all the implications of Brigham’s statement and those of other leaders, we may find there is a much better explanation. We may actually come across something vital and enlightening if we but allow ourselves to explore the alternatives.

Notice, too, that President Young implies that the creation of the Earth and the placement of all creatures upon this world, up to and including Man, took place before our world found its present place, orbiting this Sun. Brigham stated, “This is the glory the earth came from ….” That would mean that the early descendents of Adam first bathed in a different light, that they did not see our Sun as we see it now. And if that was the case, the other planets in our solar system may not have been where we see them today at all.

Although President Young didn’t mention it, it is a natural assumption, supported by voluminous eyewitness accounts from ancient cultures the world over, that the relocation process experienced by this Earth, as referenced by Brigham, provided its human inhabitants with a spectacular series of celestial dramas that dramatically altered both their skies and the planet on which they stood, which drama played out over many generations and included numerous catastrophic events. (See “The New Saturn Myth,” Eschatus, Vol. 1, No. 2; “The Saturn Epic: In the Beginning, Eschatus, Vol.1, No.3; “The Saturn Epic: Mythmaking,” Eschatus, Vol 2, No. 1.)

President Young spoke of Earth’s prior position as being “near the throne of our Father in heaven.” This has far more sweeping implications than those that immediately meet the eye. For example, the explanations Joseph Smith gave for the hypocephalus hieroglyphs on the papyri that came into his hands are all about planets and stars, their relative locations to one another, their hierarchy and their proximity to the “residence” or “throne of God.” (See The Pearl of Great Price, pp. 36, 37.) The implications are that the Egyptian traditions and the icons used to rehearse, recall or memorialize them actually retain the knowledge of the heavens as they appeared in the earliest epoch of Earth’s history. Both Brigham and the Egyptians used the same terminology to describe this first estate of our planet as a place near God’s throne. The Egyptian tradition is filled with this sort of affirmation, but we mistakenly take it to be largely metaphorical because we base our beliefs on the current scientific model of Earth’s history, not the words of our prophets.

It should be noted that part of the evidence supporting these conjectures about Brigham’s statements comes from no less an authority than Joseph Smith in his explanations of the facsimiles, as we shall see.

Another stunning assumption can be inferred from President Young’s observation, “… and when it [the Earth] is glorified it will return again unto the presence of the Father ….” This parallels the doctrine of the restoration of all things. This concept is also embodied in the revelation that says, “Truth is the knowledge of things as they are, as they were and as they are to come.” Put yet another way, by knowing information about past celestial events, we can draw inferences about future events and vice versa—each is a reflection of the other, like two conceptual bookends. (See “A Tale of Two Books.”)

This is a notion that we will run into time and time again in this journey of discovery and wonder. The reader would do well to keep it in mind as we move forward.

Before moving on, it should be noted that this evidence and the weight it carries, coming from the credible sources it does, should force us to drastically rethink our allegiance to mainstream thought and our current perspective on these matters. As stated at the outset of this monograph, this evidence requires a radical shift in our own perspective.

Granted, this thesis extrapolates much from a very brief statement, and if taken alone, hardly constitutes proof of these assumptions. But there is much more that serves to corroborate Brigham’s views, so let’s move on.

Orson Hyde

Elder Orson Hyde, an early Apostle and the man who dedicated the Holy Land to the gathering of Israel, substantiated President Young’s statement about the Earth’s restoration to its former place and glory when he remarked, “God says he will gather all things into one; then he will gather the earth likewise …. The gathering will be upon a larger scale in time to come; for by and by the stars of heaven will fall. Which way will they go? They will rally to a grand center, and there will be one grand constellation of worlds.” (Journal of Discourses, 1:130.)

This statement amplifies on Brigham’s views by including other worlds in this gathering or restoration to its former location. Based on the restoration doctrine, we can also infer that this “constellation of worlds” was the arrangement that dominated the heavens anciently, in the beginning, when Earth was situated near the orb referred to as the “throne of God” by Brigham.

Elder Hyde’s reference to the “larger scale” of this gathering is a reflection on the idea that many planets, not just the Earth, were involved in the “fall” from its location near the orb referenced as “the throne of God, “ and that a group of planets and other orbs or “stars” will once again be gathered or returned to their former location. This statement has profound implications for our understanding and interpretation of the events prophesied to occur prior to the Savior’s second coming, providing a unifying theme for all such prophecy that makes it plain and easy to understand. (See “Keys to Prophecy, Joseph Smith’s Marvelous Key” and “Keys to Prophecy, What Joseph Taught.”)

In the journal of an early Latter-day Saint, Samuel Hollister Rogers, we find corroboration of this gathering of planets and stars. Rogers attributes this concept to Joseph Smith. “When these stars return to the place where they were taken from, it will cause the earth to reel to and fro. Not that the planets will come squarely against each other. In such case both planets would be broken to pieces. But, in their rolling motion, they will come together where they were taken from, which will cause the earth to reel to and fro.” (Journal of Samuel Hollister Rogers, 1840, B.Y.U Special Collections.)

Orson Pratt

Another clue to the ancient appearance of other orbs in Earth’s heavens is found in a statement made by Elder Orson Pratt. “About the time of Abraham, the Tower of Babel was built. … They thought that the City of Enoch was caught up a little ways from the earth, and that the city [planet] was within the first sphere above the earth; and that if they could get a tower high enough they might get to heaven where the City of Enoch and the inhabitants thereof were located.” (Journal of Discourses, 16:50.)

The reference to “the first sphere above the earth” is an allusion to the geocentric, Aristotelian view that the sun, moon, planets and stars were imbedded in nested, crystalline spheres, with the Earth at the center. Elder Pratt, an astronomer and mathematician, meant to infer that the planet was located as close to the Earth as our Moon, which was thought in ancient times to be in the “first sphere” above the Earth.

Since space is more typically the locus for planets rather than cities, it seems appropriate to infer that Elder Pratt meant that Enoch’s city was located on a planet.

Orson F. Whitney

Elder Orson F. Whitney, called to the Quorum of the Twelve in 1906, was born in Salt Lake City in 1855. Therefore, he could not have learned these things from Joseph Smith personally. But, as can be seen in his statement below, he directly and specifically attributed this concept to the Prophet. In all probability, this indicates that he obtained this knowledge secondhand, though it may also have been confirmed to him through revelation. Of utmost significance to our study is the fact that it confirms that this type of perspective could still be found among the church membership in Whitney’s day and that it corroborates the cosmology of earlier church leaders. “… the object of the people who built the Tower of Babel (was) to reach heaven, to attain one of the starry planets, one of the heavenly bodies. … I cannot conceive how … a race of people … could cherish the idea that they could actually reach the sun, moon, or one of the stars simply by piling brick upon brick and stone upon stone. But the Prophet Joseph Smith, whose job it was to shed light upon the darkness of this generation, is said to have declared that it was not their intention to reach heaven, but to reach Zion, which was then suspended in mid-air between heaven and earth, or at such a height as to render the project feasible. This certainly is more reasonable.” (Collected Discourses, Vol. 1, p. 359.)

Reasonable or not, these two statements emphatically propose a wholly untenable concept in today’s astronomy: Earth was once at close quarters with another planet in the days of Babel’s tower. Additionally surprising is the fact that both Elders Hyde and Whitney unabashedly attribute this teaching to the Prophet, making it certain that Joseph was, in fact, the source of this concept.

Moreover, both statements infer that this planet was close enough to give the impression that it could be reached if one simply built a tall enough building. This mystery planet, referred to as a “city” by Elder Hyde, must have been an impressive sight if it seemed close enough to be within human grasp.

Perhaps most interesting of all is Elder Whitney’s reference to this planet as being “suspended in mid-air,” implying that it may not have orbited in the manner so familiar to us today. Rather, it suggests that the planet moved in tandem with the Earth. This notion borders on the preposterous, yet it is substantiated by another statement, this one from Elder Orson Pratt. “The Prophet Joseph once in my hearing advanced his opinion that the Ten Tribes were separated from the Earth or a portion of the Earth was, by a miracle, broken off and that the Ten Tribes were taken away with it, and that in the latter days it would be restored to the Earth or be let down in the polar regions.” (The Letter Box, as quoted in The Lost Tribes, p. 50.)

If this “portion of the Earth” were actually another planet that had once appeared to hover or be “suspended in mid-air,” as Elder Whitney stated, then its location above the North Pole would explain how it could appear to remain in a fixed position with relation to the Earth. The one star in our present heavens that does not appear to move around the night sky is Polaris, the North Star. Any planet fixed in that same position at some distance from the Earth would appear to hang motionless in the sky, remaining stationary there day and night. (See “Keys to Prophecy, Planets and Stars” and “Keys to Prophecy, A Great Star.”)

Not coincidentally, the constellation Ursa Major or the Big Bear is located on the west wall of the Salt Lake Temple, where it points directly at Polaris. A reasonable conclusion, drawn from this discussion, is that Orson Pratt, who was responsible for the iconography of that temple and articulated the polar idea in the above statement as well, understood the importance of the Axis Mundi concept (World Axis at the North Pole) and the role it played in the position of a planet or planets in Earth’s ancient skies. Hence, he set in stone on a latter-day temple the very concepts articulated in the above statements: a great planet once hovered above the Earth’s north pole.

Startling documentary evidence of Joseph’s cosmological beliefs

As extreme as that position may seem, it is substantiated by evidence produced by another of Joseph Smith’s closest associates, Philo Dibble, who served as a bodyguard to the Prophet. After relocating to Utah with the pioneer Saints, Dibble settled in Springville. He was well known to church leaders, who treated him with deference and respect because of his diligence and service to Joseph and the church. Neither did they challenge the concepts behind the next bit of evidence we will examine.

In 1884, Dibble produced an illustration he claimed had been personally drawn for him by Joseph Smith in 1842 as the Prophet explained to Dibble how the Earth had once been part of a group of planets in the distant past—assumably the same idea as Elder Hyde’s “constellation of worlds.” (See “Saturn Symbolism in the Salt Lake Temple,” Eschatus, Vol. 3, No. 3 and Vol. 3, No. 4; “The Polar Configuration, Saturn, the Crescent and Joseph Smith,” Eschatus, Vol. 4, No. 3; “What Joseph Knew,” Eschatus, Vol.5, No. 2, “Keys to Prophecy, Prophecy and the Restored Gospel.”)

Dibble Illustration

The conclusions that one can draw from looking at this Dibble illustration can be summarized thus: Not one but three planets once stood above the Earth’s north pole, sharing a common axis of rotation with one another and the Earth in a “shish kabob” configuration, as seen in the Dibble drawing. This unique positioning allowed them to appear stationary in Earth’s heavens such that the Babylonians considered it possible to build a tower to reach them. This “constellation of worlds” remained intact, contrary to all the tenets of our gravity-based, scientific notions, and orbited the sun in the same ecliptic plane as all the planets do today. Also, a tenuous column of lighted gases and dust seemed to interconnect these planets, as seen in the Dibble illustration.

Parley Pratt

Not only is that exceedingly strange, so is the final conclusion: A similar arrangement will be restored in the catastrophic events seen to occur prior to the Savior’s coming, as predicted in all prophecy. Elder Parley Pratt, Orson Pratt’s brother and an Apostle, said, “The stars [planets] which will fall to earth are fragments, which have been broken off from the earth from time to time in the mighty convulsions of nature …. These all must be restored again at the ‘times of restitution of all things.’ …When these fragments (some of which are vastly larger than the present earth) are brought back and joined to this earth, it will cause a convulsion of all nature …. The mountains will flow down, the valley rise, the sea retire to its own place, the islands and continents will be removed, and the earth be rolled together as a scroll.” (The Millennial Star, 1:258.)

This restoration of polarly aligned planets is echoed in the journal of Brother Rogers, who was quoted previously as saying, “… they will come together where they were taken from ….” And again, from another early church member’s journal, that of Wandle Mace, we read, “Some of you brethren have been coming up the river on a steamboat, and while seated at the table the steamboat (ran) against a snag, which upset the table and scattered the dishes; so it will be when these portions of the earth return. It will make the earth reel to and fro like a drunken man.” (The journal of Wandle Mace, p.47.)

Finally, from an extended discussion with the Prophet about the mechanisms behind such planetary encounters by an early church member, Homer M. Brown, great grandfather of Elder Hugh B. Brown, recalled these details of Joseph’s explanation. “Scientists will tell you … that two planets coming together would be disastrous to both. But, when two planets … are traveling in the same direction and one of them with a little greater velocity than the other, it would not be disastrous because the one traveling faster would overtake the other.

“Now, what would cause the mountains of ice to melt quicker than the heat caused by the friction of the two planets coming together?

“Now, Brother Brown, at the present time this earth is rotating very rapidly. When this planet returns it will make the earth much heavier, and it will then revolve slower, and that will account for the waters receding from the earth ….” (The Last Days, pp. 90, 91.)

These are not the only evidentiary documents that could be cited. There are literally dozens of such references strewn about in the records left behind by the early Saints. While admittedly anecdotal in nature and therefore subject to doubt, taken together they form a compelling and coherent body of information that bears further study and compels us to examine our presently held beliefs regarding Earth’s true history.

Not only do these statements offer considerable evidence from a variety of sources that Joseph Smith was, indeed, teaching these concepts to the early Saints, apparently, this was our founding prophet’s view of Earth’s early history. If so, we would do well to abandon our present views, steeped in an apparently flawed scientific paradigm, in favor of the more enlightened views on these subjects held by the prophets.

Also, since virtually all these men referenced Joseph Smith as the author or originator of these ideas, it seems likely that even at that early date, when the scholarly doctrines of Uniformitarianism or Gradualism had just begun to take root in the minds of church members, these brethren felt obliged to recur to the authoritative intellect of the Prophet to give their statements validity or gravitas in the minds of the Saints. They should have an identical effect upon us.

More important still is the marvelous discovery we make by adopting this viewpoint and informing ourselves in all its facets. A multitude of questions in the restored gospel are thereby immediately resolved—such issues as the exterior and interior symbolism of modern temples, Joseph’s explanations of his Egyptian papyri and other scriptural accounts such as Abraham’s story about planets, moons, suns and stars in the Pearl of Great Price, John’s enigmatic vision recorded in his Apocalypse or Revelation and all the cryptic visions of the prophets.

Moreover, the paradigm shift this information provides allows a profound and enlarged understanding of nearly every facet of the restored gospel for the Saints. Indeed, this is the central purpose of this study: to make plain the symbolism of the scriptures and the temple experience in order to allow the Saints to better interpret the words of the prophets and grasp the core concepts of the restored gospel.

If, indeed, this is what Joseph Smith learned through revelation about the early history of the Earth, then it is incumbent upon all Latter-day Saints to understand it and make it their own. These precepts were part of what made Mormonism truly unique and Mormons a peculiar people. Without this remarkable and noteworthy perspective, our views would differ little from those of every other Christian denomination, making us as salt with no savor. (See “Keys To Prophecy, An Introduction.”)

A scientific counterpart to the prophets’ concepts

Happily for those who are made uncomfortable with notions that fly in the face of mainstream orthodox science, there is a group of modern scholars and scientists that agree with these concepts. Their explanation of Earth’s earliest history, while unorthodox and disputed by many in the mainstream, concurs with the Brethren’s observations and fills in many otherwise missing details. This should also come as very welcome news to those current Saints who perceive the ongoing conflict between mainstream science and religion—most especially the restored gospel.

Saying “a costly misunderstanding of planetary history must now be corrected,” these maverick scientists and scholars have set about correcting the fundamental misconceptions of a planetary science and cosmology conceived in the gaslight era when electricity was poorly understood and a mere novelty, when plasmas in space were not even imagined and the very best telescopes would not allow a good view of our neighboring planets let alone the multitude of galaxies, stellar clusters and planetary nebulae abundant in our heavens.

A comparative mythologist, Dave Talbott, who has written extensively on the cosmological implications of the sacred traditions of all ancient cultures, and his coauthor, Wallace Thornhill, a physicist who is the primary proponent of the novel idea that it is electrical energy in plasma that lights and governs our universe, have teamed up to explain that Earth, along with other planets, was once a satellite of a brown dwarf star, which was subsequently captured by our Sun, a similar affirmation to that made by Brigham Young.

Together, Talbott and Thornhill question the fundamental pillar of today’s theoretical cosmology—the concept of the “uneventful solar system.” They are adamant that the Sun’s acquisition of that brown dwarf star, now known as the planet Saturn, and its entourage took place within historic times, as evidenced by the records, traditions and religions of all ancient cultures. These ancient civilizations, which unanimously declare that Earth was once lighted by Saturn, now classified as a “dark star” or “failed star” by astronomers due to its energetic output, is the same orb that many cultural traditions designate as the “first sun,” or “best sun,” as well as “god’s throne.” The Babylonians, for example, made the most unequivocal statement of all ancient civilizations when they wrote, “The sun is Saturn.”

Talbott wrote of his and Thornhill’s studies, “Following quite different research paths, we arrived at the same conclusion: the ancient sky was alive with activity. The evidence suggests that only a few thousand years ago planets moved close to Earth, producing electrical phenomena of intense beauty and terror. Ancient sky worshippers witnessed these celestial wonders, and far-flung cultures recorded the events in the great myths, symbols, and ritual practices of antiquity.” (Thunderbolts of the Gods, p. 6.)

They additionally declare that the appearance and movements of planets that once hovered near the Earth, together with the life-like movements seen in electrified plasma displays of light and sound that erupted between those neighboring planets, are the source of all ancient astral symbolism, hyperbole and metaphor.

Ultimately, Elder Hyde’s “constellation of worlds”—called the “Polar Configuration” by Talbott et al and dramatically illustrated in the Dibble diagram—was dismembered, and each of its component orbs settled quickly into the orbits around the Sun where we see them today. But, that settling process entailed a number of close encounters between planets over several centuries that wreaked havoc on each of them, including our Earth, as the Elders Pratt asserted.

Once again, these are key concepts found in the statements by church leaders that we have explored herein. Ancient accounts from cultures the world over, including our Old Testament, report those catastrophic encounters in cryptic, enigmatic, arcane and obscure terms that are nevertheless easy to decipher from the point of view apparently offered by Joseph Smith and the proponents of the Neo-Catastrophist movement. (The evidence validating this view is voluminous and thus not practicable for citation here. However, reading this author’s body of work citing, examining and explaining that evidence and its relevance to the restored gospel will substantiate the validity of this view and expand the reader’s gospel knowledge exponentially.)

For the purposes of this essay, it is sufficient to say that there exists a thoroughly scientific, albeit unorthodox, premise for these seemingly extravagant and unsupported statements by Prophets and Apostles, as well as numerous other church members. In fact, the study of comparative mythology from a Catastrophist point of view, initiated by Immanuel Velikovsky in the mid-20th Century and more recently elaborated by Dave Talbott and Wallace Thornhill, among many others, has provided the foundation for a fast-growing movement within scientific circles called Neo-Catastrophism. ( See “The Great and Abominable Church.”)

Adding further scientific weight to this movement is the burgeoning field of plasma physics, which disputes the very foundations of Newtonian physics. These scientists propose that the weak force of gravity is vastly overwhelmed by the actions of electromotive forces generated in ionized plasmas in space, which comprise over 99% of the mass in the universe. Having dubbed their theory “the Electric Universe,”—a cosmos where electricity and the magnetic fields that electric currents generate are the primary governing forces that organize galaxies and solar systems, as well as supplying the energy that causes suns and galaxies to shine brilliantly—they cite laboratory experiments that confirm their thesis, duplicating the phenomena and structures we see through our telescopes and space probes sent to other planets. (See “The Electric Universe,” Eschatus, Vol, 7, No. 2.)

This new pioneering field has been built upon the shoulders of giants such as Kristian Birkeland, Irving Langmuir, Noble Laureate Hannes Alfven and his colleague Anthony Peratt of the prestigious Los Alamos Laboratories. This novel view even includes the controversial work of noted astronomer Halton Arp, the author of Seeing Red.

Plasma physics explains the mechanisms and energy source needed to create the sorts of ancient, astral phenomena and events spoken of by the early Brethren. Noting that the electromagnetic force is a thousand, billion, billion, billion, billion times greater than the force of gravity, these scientists and scholars have constructed a series of scenarios that parallel the seemingly extravagant declarations of early Mormon theologians. (See “Prophets and Plasmas,” Eschatus, Vol. 7, No. 3.)

When has that ever before happened? Mainstream science is historically antagonistic where religion is concerned and downright hostile to Mormonism in particular. It is quite refreshing and enlightening to find a scientific paradigm that is in harmony with the restored gospel and unique throughout recent history, since the beginning of the Renaissance.

It is fortuitous that this information should come to light when it can augment and amplify our gospel comprehension many fold, to say nothing of immeasurably strengthening our testimonies. This is not an intellectual exercise, providing little of value; it is a journey of marvelous discovery, wonder and revelation into the very core of the restored gospel.

If revelation is the heart and soul of the gospel of Jesus Christ, this information may constitute its bone and sinew–the very framework of our restored religion, acquired through the work of Joseph Smith.

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17 Comments

  1. Was there anyone else talking about these same things around the time of Joseph Smith? Not that it makes a difference, just curious.

    Like the articles.

  2. The author makes a few mistakes:

    “Brigham stated, ‘This is the glory the earth came from ….’ That would mean that the early descendents [sic] of Adam first bathed in a different light, that they did not see our Sun as we see it now.”

    I don’t see how he gathers that from Brigham Young’s statement that the Earth fell when man fell. If Brigham had said, “And the earth continued to fall as man continued to fall,” then I could see where the author could take it to his present conclusion. It’s like the author expects God used a putt-putt engine to slowly move the Earth through space.

    He then goes to say: “The conclusions that one can draw from looking at this Dibble illustration can be summarized thus: Not one but three planets once stood above the Earth’s north pole, sharing a common axis of rotation with one another and the Earth in a ‘shish kabob’ configuration, as seen in the Dibble drawing.”

    I see three planets in the illustration. I have to assume that the middle planet is the Earth, because of the placement of the moon in the illustration. I would summarize the only conclusion that can be derived from the illustration thusly: the Earth (object A) had one planet on the north pole (object B) and one planet on the south pole (object C). How he sees three planets and one Earth in that illustration is beyond me!

    Perhaps you should rely on someone who can think more clearly than this author…

  3. He is probably inferring a three planet stack from both the stacked planet orientation of the drawing plus our unique Mormon doctrine of three heavens or degrees of glory: Celestial, Terrestrial and Telestial. So, the three degrees of glory would be representative of the three planets that were stacked above Planet Earth. Looking at the drawing alone, and assuming it to contain all the information (all the planets that were stacked), when you move Earth which is obviously the center planet downward, it still makes only two stacked above. So, I would say he is combining both the drawing and Mormon doctrine to reach his summarized conclusion.

  4. Still I think the author is confused (or is at least confusing things, as are you in your attempt to justify his statements). As Mormons, we know that the planet Earth is the Celestial kingdom (currently in a state of lesser glory while mortal man is being sent here to be tested). So if the author is trying to describe the 3 kingdoms of heaven in relation to the Earth, then object A in the illustration is still both Earth and the Celestial kingdom. And should Earth be rejuvenated by fire and united with the other two kingdoms (objects B & C), then there is still no need or sense to having 3 spheres or planets above the Earth’s north pole.

  5. According to Matthew W. Dalton, the person who originally published the drawing, Dibble’s view was that the middle sphere (A ) represented earth, that sphere B was attached to earth at the north pole, and that sphere C was attached at the south pole.

    This is from the book “The Lost Tribes” by R. Clayton Bough, pp 51-55, and this view does have, at least, the virtue of symmetry.

    There also seems to have been some question whether Joseph Smith considered spheres B and C to be visible or invisible.

    Further, Joseph reportedly said that sphere B was the abode of the Lost Ten Tribes. No mention was made of sphere C’s purpose.

  6. I’m curious as to how Anthony would answer. What say you, Anthony?

  7. While we wait for Anthony’s response, here are a couple of links that may throw light on why he chose three planets above Earth and not one or two.

    When Saturn was King

    Notice in the article the mention of a Polar Configuration.

    After that article there is another one linked which is on a forum called Origins of Myth which explains the theory that there were, in fact, three planets above Earth, Saturn (topmost), Venus (middle) and Mars (directly above us).

    Both of these articles are written by David Talbott, comparative mythologist.

    He’s also got a YouTube video linked here.

  8. No one can be blamed for skepticism about this topic, since so little of this planetary information has circulated in church circles for the last half century. Moreover, the topic is so all encompassing, so all enclusive that no single article can present the tremendous body of information supporting my thesis.

    So, my recommendation to those who doubt my sanity and veracity is to suspend judgment and criticism until you consider more of the evidence. I’ll post more articles over time. Also, you can visit my website (www.mormonprophecy.com) or watch my video clips on You Tube (http://youtube.com/user/toeknee1943).

    I offer a daylong seminar with PowerPoint slideshow presentations at no charge to those who wish to know more. You can contact me for more details if you’re interested.

    I can only add that this is a most revealing approach to the study of gospel symbolism, ancient history and prophecy. Instead of accusing me of fuzzy logic and improper interpretation, look at the entire body of evidence before reaching any firm conclusions.

  9. Anthony,

    I didn’t mean to demean your presentation and article. As you can see, I didn’t take issue with your most speculative claims, I took issue with (more like raised questions over) a few particular interpretations.

    I’m very interested your approach and line of reasoning, and I think there is much to be had from your investigations.

    Keep up the good work, and I apologize if I was harsh or blunt in criticism!

  10. Derek,

    Apology accepted.

    I need a favor, if you or anyone else on this site is willing.

    I need help in tailoring my approach to members who have not been exposed to off-the-beaten-path ideas. I have some questions that you may wish to answer.

    What part of my recent posts interests you the most? What questions remain after reading them? What can I do to make such unorthodox ideas more appealing to Latter-day Saints? What part seems most relevant: its application to prophecy, to temple imagery and ritual or the imagery of the scriptures and the gospel?

    Any insight you can provide along those lines would be most helpful in my quest to make this information relevant and enticing to members.

    Thanks,

    Anthony

  11. Thanks for the thoughts and careful conclusions. This is an intriguing synthesis of a lot of bits of information that I’ve been exposed to at times in the past but of which have seen very very little discussion.

  12. Mr. Larson

    I have read through all of the posts on your website. I would love to help you in any way possible. The bit of information that made me think you were on to something is the Salt Lake City temple. It is highly loved by all LDS members. The fact that there are Saturn stones on it is not common knowledge. Seeing the original drawing of Saturn that was supposed to be there is even more astonishing. It begs the LDS member to ask, why? You have a great answer. For me that was a grabber. I’d love to start a dialogue with you and help in any way possible. I understand skepticism, I’m married to an electrical engineer, who got a degree in physics. If a presentation can be worked to convince him, anyone LDS member could be convinced. LoL.

  13. Thanks. Please contact me. anthonyelarson@starband.net

  14. Anthony,

    Just thought I’d attempt from my perspective to answer your questions as to how to make these concepts more approachable by members who have only “mainstream” church concepts exposure…

    You might try to tie in the signs leading up to the second coming, specifically the quote from the current Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith manual, on the chapter regarding the 2nd coming and millenium…
    Joseph indicates that Christ will not come until all the signs have been fulfilled, then alludes to the signs regarding the sun hiding it’s face, the moon turning to blood, and a greater sign, which men will try to dismiss as simply a comet, a planet, etc.

    That quote was what started ME doing research regarding the signs of the second coming… Which has led me to your research, the Saturn Theory, the electric universe, etc.
    So, trying in the concept of the “greater sign” which men will say is a comet or planet which will preceed the appearance of Christ, and that planet’s likely relation to the catastrophes which would cause the sun to be hidden and the moon to turn to blood may bookend nicely with similar cosmic configurations and their accompanying catastrophes seen in the sky in ancient times.

    Also, it may be worth mentioning that the great Saturn “capstones” intended for the buttress/collumns of the Salt Lake temple would have been positioned at either side of the Big Dipper constellation and that I’ve seen the row of round “ringed circle” stones above the Big Dipper also called “Saturn Stones”. It seems to me that the proximity to the big dipper could possibly imply a relationship (i.e. Saturn was once the ruling figure in the Axis Mundi in the same position, or in a similar manner as Polaris)

  15. Thanks, Kevin, for your thoughtful and insightful comment. I’ll take your recommendations under advisement. But it seems to me that I’ve largely already done just what you recommend, beginning with my Prophecy Trilogy books. Have you read them? Also, double check my blog (www.mormonprophecy.blogspot.com) and my website (www.mormonprophecy.com). Follow the links there to the videos I’ve done. If after covering all that material you still think I’ve not make the connections you suggest well enough, I’d be most interested to know where I failed. Thanks, again, for your willingness to help and your interest.

  16. I find some remarkable parallels between the Dibble facsimile and the Edwin Rushton document containing the “White Horse Prophecy.” I have included a link to a BYU studies article evaluating the origins of the Rushton document. This is an interesting read, especially, like I mentioned, in light of the Dibble manuscript. As you said, the Dibble manuscript is the “lynchpin,” and if you remove the lynchpin everything, by definition, tends to fall apart.

    Joseph Fielding Smith made a very interesting and pertinent statement in General Conference about manuscripts and documents detailing secret teachings, specifically relating to the Rushton document, but equally applicable to Dibble’s:

    “I have discovered that people have copies of a purported vision by the Prophet Joseph Smith given in Nauvoo, and some people are circulating this supposed vision, or revelation, or conversation which the prophet is reported to have held with a number of individuals in the city of Nauvoo. I want to say to you, my brethren and sisters, that if you understand the Church articles and covenants, if you will read the scriptures and become familiar with those things which are recorded in the revelations from the Lord, it will not be necessary for you to ask any questions in regard to the authenticity or otherwise of any purported revelation, vision, or manifestation that proceeds out of darkness, concocted in some corner, surreptitiously presented, and not coming through the proper channels of the Church. Let me add that when a revelation comes for the guidance of this people, you may be sure that it will not be presented in some mysterious manner contrary to the order of the Church. It will go forth in such form that the people will understand that it comes from those who are in authority, for it will be sent either to the presidents of stakes and the bishops of the wards over the signatures of the presiding authorities, Or it will be published in some of the regular papers or magazines under the control and direction of the Church or it will be presented before such a gathering as this, at a general conference. It will not spring up in some distant part of the Church and be in the hands of some obscure individual without authority, and thus be circulated among the Latter-day Saints. Now, you may remember this.” (Joseph F. Smith, Jr., Conference Report, October 1918, p.55.)

  17. Yo:

    Though I don’t disagree with your observation that the Dibble drawing has an obscure background — the quote you provided:

    Let me add that when a revelation comes for the guidance of this people, you may be sure that it will not be presented in some mysterious manner contrary to the order of the Church. It will go forth in such form that the people will understand that it comes from those who are in authority, for it will be sent either to the presidents of stakes and the bishops of the wards over the signatures of the presiding authorities, Or it will be published in some of the regular papers or magazines under the control and direction of the Church or it will be presented before such a gathering as this, at a general conference. It will not spring up in some distant part of the Church and be in the hands of some obscure individual without authority, and thus be circulated among the Latter-day Saints. Now, you may remember this.

    strikes me as very similar to the Catholic concept of what defines scripture. One of the criteria is that a book has a tradition of being readily accepted by the Catholic church as scripture. So while, to Catholics, the canon is technically “open” — their circular definition draws a circle around the current 66 books b/c how could anything new come forth that has a tradition of being accepted?

    Likewise, when LDS say that anything worth hearing will only come from a Gen. Conf. talk or an Ensign magazine — we reject the long-standing scriptural precedent of the really good stuff not coming from the established authorities.

    Devout followers of a long-standing religious tradition rejected Jesus precisely because of their misplaced trust in the “unwritten order of things”. They wrongly held that God would not send someone to tell them something important unless he held a position of authority among them. Jesus could not have fulfilled His mission without coming as a outsider — He needed to come to Israel as a person who would not be deferred to by virtue of His position/authority among them.

    Jesus didn’t teach us that we will know them by their state of presiding authority within the Church — but by their fruits.


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