The LDS weep not for Zion

About three and a half years ago, in March of 2004, I created a forum, which I called the Establishment of Zion Think Tank. The goal was to have a place where LDS who weeped and longed for Zion could meet and brainstorm ways to remove the influence and dependency of Babylon from their lives, bringing us one step closer to a Zion society. Specifically, the forum was to address ways on how to provide for the needs of people: water, food, shelter, clothing, currency, education, transportation, etc. These needs were to be provided outside of the realm of Babylon, through anarchy, if you will, which is the principle of free agency, co-operation and private, mutual benefit. It contained a list of advanced technologies that could be used towards this end. It also put forth the concept of a United Effort, differing from the scriptural United Order, which was directed by the priesthood. United Efforts were to be groups of like-minded people working together towards a common goal, completely apart from the methods employed by Babylon.

After creating the forum, I began talking to LDS to see if anyone would like to be a part of the think tank and work on ways to cut the ties to Babylon, so that when Babylon fell, which it will, we LDS would not feel the effects of that fall, having little to no dependency upon her. But what I found was that all of the LDS I talked to had little to no interest in Zion, and no interest in working to build bridges to her. Many LDS felt that the city of Zion would be built after the Second Coming of the Lord and thus it was impossible to even consider the subject until a more favorable environment presented itself. The current Babylonian system made any type of Zion-like effort in vain, according to them. Other LDS felt that such efforts should be directed only through the priesthood channels, that we had no right to even make an attempt, and that since we are counseled to work within the Babylon system, it was obvious that all such attempts would be doomed to failure, since it would go against the supposed counsel of the leaders. These LDS were waiting to be commanded by the prophet and would not make a move on their own in that direction. Still other LDS knew little to nothing about Zion, having not studied the topic in any depth. The final group I talked to wanted nothing to do with Zion or her principles, as it sounded too foreign to the society they were a part of and loved.

In conclusion, after seeking out people to become a part of this think tank, no one participated in discussion. Not a single LDS.

Here is the link to this fruitless forum:

Notice, in particular, the date of the posts. It has been sitting there for nearly four years, gathering cyberdust.

I used to be under the impression that LDS were the most enlightened people on the planet, as we had the Holy Ghost, which imparts wisdom, but this experience showed me that no one weeps for Zion. Those who do, must be a minority of the members. Attempts such as The Mormon Worker and my Establishment of Zion Think Tank are doomed to failure from the start, not because they are not sound, but because we, as a LDS culture, have been associated too long with Babylon. We have become Babylon-lite.

Zion will be established. Of that I have no doubt. But this people won’t do it. The Lord will have to put forth his hand and clean his house, as he has prophesied that he would do, leaving a remnant. It is the remnant that will establish Zion. It is they who weep for Zion, along with the poor, destitute and despised of the earth.

Complete List of Articles authored by LDS Anarchist


  1. I’ve thought for a while it would be cool to set up a new “cooperative” community.

  2. A friggin men! As I have already stated several times I have planned on starting my own community based on having all things in common. I guess it would fit into some people’s notion of a cult, but only the ignorant would see it that way. I think reliance upon leader’s counsel is doing more harm than good to the agency of church members. I also used to be one of those people. If the Bishop were God, then I would be justified in hanging on his every word. Leaders are no different than you and I, except for their position. It’s like the discussion I had on the Wow. For so long I was relying on everyone else’s understanding and interpretation of that revelation and not seeking my own. I have been coming to realize that I have done that in several different areas.

    Scriptures that prophesy, it seems, almost cause that which they are prophesying of. Such as your topic of Zion and Babylon. If it had never been revealed that the Lord would do the cleaning up, would he then need to? I can’t say that I have seen a scripture that tells us not to try.

    I have read several articles about people moving into rural areas and living off-grid. Even though your neighbor is a mile down the road, there is still a great sense of community through sharing and bartering. How fantastic is that?!

    It is very sad to see so many in the church not thinking for themselves. In fact just at the last conference I recall hearing one of the GAs telling us to do just that. Maybe I’m confusing that with something else, but I could swear that’s what I heard.

  3. The repeating cycles found hidden in books
    Natural ways of living that might get you funny looks
    From what we are told, and led to believe
    We must stay in the cities to get what we need
    We’re told we need stuff for this and for that
    Trinkets and gadgets and pharmaceutical crap
    Crap that we know is hidden everywhere
    From our clothes and our food and the stuff for our hair

    The repeating occurrence that I’d like to discuss
    Is a modern day form of an Exodus
    In olden day times new lands would unfold
    These were real events and not just stories told
    When you fight and you squirm and you do all you can
    There just comes a time to separate from the man
    Some civilizations like our brothers with long noses
    Were led from oppression by a saint they called Moses
    When the man had the witches burning backs to the oceans
    They can to the Americas packing their medicinal potions
    The man has done everything within his puney power
    To get us back in a corner to whimper and cower
    But I have faith, and I know so do you
    That the creator has a plan for this time too

    We know many health problems are caused by legal drugs
    Let’s use the 1st Amendment and legalize the good stuff
    This move for starters will help us disband
    And take the first steps of renewed freedom in this land
    We have all the documentation that we need at this time
    To legalize real solutions kept away by legalized crime
    Cannabis has cures to hundreds of illnesses and diseases
    Solutions to fix the ozone, famines, and wars are already seeded
    Help from you now is really what’s needed
    It’s almost too good to be true, but I testify to you
    That Cannabis is a miracle that the creator skillfully grew
    Thousands of uses from fuel, food, fiber, and glue
    Cannabis is so versatile it can replace everything made from crude oil
    Except disease, poisons, control, and turmoil

    The next thing we need is a place far from his guns
    Shady tactics of secret combinations and poisons
    My great great grandfather William Henry Harrison Heap
    Was one of the thousands that escaped England’s religious burning heat
    Then from a Governor’s extermination order to Utah, with Freedom in his eyes
    This year we have discovered quite a surprise
    A gift left by him that I’ll equally share
    I need a real estate lawyer to please sit up in thier chair
    I can find no old records of him selling his first homestead
    The first property he found sanctuary and rested his head
    Just so happens to be Zion’s Park now…you heard what I said
    His legacy lives on again as he cries vengeance from the dead

    These are but two answers we have up our sleeves
    As we’ve all been praying for solutions and keys
    Right now what we need are others that can
    Afford donating all forms of surplus energy, talents and hands
    Is there anybody out there that’s sick or diseased?
    That would like to be cured with sweat lodges, plants, and trees
    De-taxing thousands of illness causing poisons with ease
    Constitutionally protected in the land of the free

    I’m grateful to those fathers who brought us the Constitution
    Securing rights for us to freely exercise spiritual institutions
    That will help us overcome the newer laws of delusion
    That do nothing but strip rights and create unnecessary confusion

    I have faith that you’re out there to assist on this quest
    Please email me from the North, South, East, and West

    Christian Kenny Heap 3-2-1974
    Ministry of Alchemy

  4. I have decided to open up the Establishment of Zion Think Tank forum. No longer does it require registration to read what is written there, although it wll still require registration to create threads and post comments.

  5. I feel as you do.

    Jospeh did well in establishing a desire for Zion, though not the necessary commitment in the early Saints but even the desire is long gone. It is sad.

    Enoch succeeded, Moses did not, Jospeh did not, Joseph commented at one time that whenever he tried to teach the church something that went against thier traditions they would fly apart like glass. I am inclined to believe he would have an even tougher time in our day.

  6. The saints today are less enlightened than they think, and more inclined to reject the teachings of the spirit. Its too bad that they suffer much while Zion will be built under their noses and they will not even be aware.

  7. Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith
    Section Six 1843-44, pp. 330-331

    Saints Have Not Much Time

    The Saints have not too much time to save and redeem their dead, and gather together their living relatives, that they may be saved also, before the earth will be smitten, and the consumption decreed falls upon the world.

    I would advise all the Saints to go with their might and gather together all their living relatives to this place [Nauvoo], that they may be sealed and saved, that they may be prepared against the day that the destroying angel goes forth; and if the whole Church should go to with all their might to save their dead, seal their posterity, and gather their living friends, and spend none of their time in behalf of the world, they would hardly get through before night would come, when no man can work; and my only trouble at the present time is concerning ourselves, that the Saints will be divided, broken up, and scattered, before we get our salvation secure; for there are so many fools in the world for the devil to operate upon, it gives him the advantage oftentimes.

    All Ordinances Necessary

    The question is frequently asked, “Can we not be saved without going through with all those ordinances? I would answer, No, not the fulness of salvation. Jesus said, There are many mansions in my Father’s house, and I will go and prepare a place for you. House here named should have been translated kingdom; and any person who is exalted to the highest mansion has to abide a celestial law, and the whole law too.

    But there has been a great difficulty in getting anything into the heads of this generation. It has been like splitting hemlock knots with a corn-dodger for a wedge, and a pumpkin for a beetle. Even the Saints are slow to understand.

    Unwillingness of Saints to Learn

    I have tried for a number of years to get the minds of the Saints prepared to receive the things of God; but we frequently see some of them, after suffering all they have for the work of God, will fly to pieces like glass as soon as anything comes that is contrary to their traditions: they cannot stand the fire at all. How many will be able to abide a celestial law, and go through and receive their exaltation, I am unable to say, as many are called, but few are chosen. (Jan. 20, 1844.) DHC 6:183-185.

  8. Thanks for this post. I am very interested in the establishment of ZIon and the topics listed in the forum. I have pursued many of these topics outside the church because as you say most LDS members are not interested. Instead I have looked to the peak oil and permaculture communities where people are interested in sustainability. In my mind Zion is the utlimate sustainable environment. It is not that sustainability is the end-all-be-all. It is a necessary but not sufficient condition for Zion. Zion is the people and specifically a group of people who have all been born again and have no desire to do evil. Gathering up a bunch of people who aren’t at this spiritual level (and I don’t claim to be) will never work. In the church we mention being born again periodically but only in a weak way. The common statement I usually hear is that being born again takes a lifetime which actually means that no one ever reaches it. Ask a group of saints how many are born again. Either no one will claim to be or they will say they were born again at baptism. Compare this to the experiences in the Book of Mormon. The church is true but the members (including me) have not lived up to our calling. The lack of interest in Zion is a symptom of this.

  9. Hey LDSA,
    I’ve been reading all the posts here in chronological order as you suggested a while back. Which is why I’m on a 2007 post. Anyhow, after reading this one in particular I had this very strong prompting to share some things with you. I can’t share them publicly though so I figured if you read my comment here and tell me where I can share what I’ve been impressed to then I will. I just don’t want to give out personal information about myself to everyone. So if you’re interested just let me know.

  10. liv435, you can contact me via my Wireclub account. Just send me a message. (I’m pretty sure that you can send me a message without being having a Wireclub account of your own. Let me know if that doesn’t work and then I’ll just drop you an email.)

  11. LDSA…you may have to shoot me an e-mail. Apparently I do need an account to message you unless I’m just technologically challenged-grrrrr. Either way I’m not able to do it.

  12. Okay, liv435. I sent you an email, entitled, “From LDS Anarchist.”

  13. I just completed “We Will Still Weep for Zion” at It supports some of your findings and adds more material about RLDS (reluctant latter-day saints).

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