“I believe in a similar fashion and lately I have been unable to call myself a Mormon because of it. Is one a “true” Mormon if they do not take everything in the rigid literal? I started to feel I couldn’t be much like I can’t call myself a vegetarian if I eat meat. But now I’m not so sure. Isn’t this what Mormonism is at its core, its base?”
I’ve also read similar sentiments – e.g.
“I [have x-y-z different opinion on this-or-that facet of Mormonism, yet still identify in some degree as “Mormon”]. As a result, when I speak to others [and] I say, “I am a Mormon.” Am I being deceptive if I don’t reveal what that phrase means to me upfront?”
This represents my ~4500 word response to that.
The religious experience of the gospel of Jesus Christ — at its core, its base — is the subjective and transcendent experience of God:
I was once told in conversation that:
“Mormons just don’t drink alcohol – that is the least that is expected of them.”
And I thought – really, that’s the least that’s being LDS means – abstaining from alcoholic drinks? I’m sure if we are talking about LDS youth, then that person would probably say that the “least” is something related to body modesty or not having sex. But again – that’s our least?
For a religion proclaiming Jesus Christ – the “least” ought to be pretty straightforward. Jesus called people to consider themselves the servants of all – and act accordingly. Having the same mind in you that was in Him: who did empty himself and take the form of a servant [Philippians 2:5-8]. That’s it.
The gospel of Jesus Christ is fluid. It’s meant to be lived by every human who’s ever lived on the whole earth. As such, it is flexible, adaptable to the variety of conditions that exist among people. What makes nature so beautiful and awe-inspiring is its diversity. Even though nature follows certain patterns, it is ever-new and always creating – never boring or monotonous. [see, Going from Concrete to Flowers]
However, a “hardened” religious tradition cannot tolerate subjectivity and diversity. So, when one’s mind is informed by such a belief system, God ceases to be the experience of the Supreme Being – and becomes instead This-Thing who sits Up-There in the sky ruling over nature and who must be related to according to in That-Way [see, Making an Image out of God].
The fundamental aspect of the gospel is people having a transcendent experience of God – one that experiences God as a continuous happening that we are all a part of. It’s that experience of Joy that all our myths, stories, and rituals are telling about and pointing to – so that we may come to that same place where we too relate to God with an I-Thou relationship framed in terms of family and covenant [see, Taking our Myths Literally].
That relative experience is expressed outwardly in a material sense in various ways:
Now – the gospel does manifest itself outwardly as a physical space-and-time institution according to the doctrine of expediency. Suiting itself to the conditions found among the people at that time and place [see, There are no “higher” or “lower” laws; there are only expedient laws and D&C 46:15].
But the base-layer, the common experience is always about coming to relate to the Power of the created universe in terms that break-down the left-brain sense of separateness and open-up the right-brain sense of complete continuousness and connectivity.
There may be behavioral or moral implications of a covenant with God – but it is not the jurisdiction of the gospel to lay down specific “hither thou shalt come and no further” fence-posts for human behavior that have a universal application across space-and-time.
So, within Mormonism, there is a wide range of possibility for diversity in belief and practice that can be characterized by having different people fill in the following blanks:
- A Mormon is known for at least always ___________.
- A Mormon is known for at least never ____________.
We should not be ashamed to display a bit of a bell-curve variability with respect to what a Mormon looks like, especially considering the subjective morality and the generally ambiguous nature of the standard works [see, Methods of Scriptural Interpretation].
But institutions patterned after the doctrines and commandments of men [such as corporations] generally dislike such variation — seeking instead to streamline and control naturally variable situations. So, in Mormonism we see things like correlation, the CHI, etc. But that’s a different matter entirely.
Specific manifestations of a common subjective experience express natural diversity:
The point is – [to go back to Maggie’s vegetarian who eats meat example] is there nuance within vegetarianism? Certainly.
Is it animal meat only? What about organs, or fish, or mollusks, or crustaceans, or dairy, or eggs – or is it all animal products altogether? Is it only about the eating, or is it also about using them too? Or is it really about a protest against the industrialized rearing conditions of the modern food system? Or is it about choosing to only eat plants? I’ve known vegetarians who could go a whole day and not eat a single vegetable – what with soy burgers, breaded tofu nuggets, and pizza.
There’s variation among a community that is informed by a common impulse – i.e. something is wrong with our current way of relating to the Life that we eat.
Fundamentally, all that matters is if you experience the miraculous works of the Father or not:
Being of this-or-that religion, practicing this-or-that model of worship, conforming to this-or-that belief system – none of that gives any indication about whether a person has experienced Jesus or not. And therefore doesn’t matter. The only standard for determining that a person is a true believer in Christ is the presence of the miraculous works of the Father, or signs that follow them that believe [D&C 84:64-72], in their life. Anything else is not a righteous judgment [John 7:24] – but is a judgment based on the outward appearance or the works of men.
Telling me you read the scriptures, participate in the rituals, are active in the church, etc. – tells me nothing about the experiences you’ve had with Jesus. Those things are just the retelling or reenactment of someone else’s story. It is all pointless and vain unless it is pursuant to you having the same experience — seeing eye-to-eye with the seers who have laid down those stories before you. Their stories will not save you. Reenacting events from their stories as a ritual will not generate Joy in you. Such things are meant to motivate you to get on the same pathway, to receive a similar connection with God, and to see eye-to-eye with them [see, The role of angels in Nephite preaching and How to receive what you ask for].
I don’t want to hear anything about what system of stories a person believes in their brain to be “true”. Whether those stories “happened” or not is completely irrelevant to me – because what matters is what “happens”, right now – in you. I don’t care if you believe in the stories about Adam or Abraham or Moses or Lehi or Joseph Smith having real experiences with the Father – I care if you’ve had them.
The only thing that discerns a good thing from a bad thing is its relationship to the thing that Alma termed the ever-good seed [Alma 32:28]:
the Son of God
that he will come to redeem his people
and that he shall suffer
and die to atone for their sins
and that he shall rise again from the dead
which shall bring to pass the resurrection
that all men shall stand before him
to be judged at the last and judgment day
according to their works.
Anything that persuades you to believe in and plant this ever-good seed into your right-brain-heart is itself a good seed. While anything that persuades you not to believe and plant this ever-good seed is not a good seed.
Nothing in the gospel is based on the merits and works of men. Righteous judgment has nothing to do with having mainstream LDS beliefs. All things are judged to be good or evil with respect to how they measure up to the ever-good seed and whether they point people towards, or away from, it [Moroni 7:13-19].
Everything in the gospel is based on the merits of Christ and whether we harden or soften our hearts in response to the experience of His love.
The presence of miraculous works should be our only concern:
What should characterize LDS and be our over-riding passion is the experience and the celebration of the stories of people who’ve experienced faith as a principle of power, instead of action [see, The seeds of the powers of godliness] – which are the examples of the miraculous works of the Father being manifested.
The scriptures are our collective stories of such events. But we should be celebrating the experience [nothing more, nothing less] – and with an emphasis on the newest miraculous experiences. Because a proper celebration of the spiritual works of God invites others to receive the same experiences for themselves – so there would be no need to hold on to the stories of a by-gone generation. Every country, culture, and local group needs to have their own body of miraculous works of the Father among themselves to celebrate.
It is dangerous to celebrate non-miraculous works [the works of men] and call that “faith.” All it does is encourage drudgery, or the non-miraculous works of men. There are plenty of people of all religions who sacrifice for their beliefs and religions, but who have no works of the Father in their lives.
I’ve met people who receive multiple visions or prophecies, who’ve spoken in unknown tongues on demand, and who’ve been ministered to by angels. On the other hand, I’ve also met people who’ve never received a revelation in their entire life. In either case, every one of those people professed to believe in Jesus and came from different churches and belief systems. The only substantial difference between the two groups is that the former manifested the works of the Father – while the latter manifested the works of men.
Someone who has denied their Self, experienced the transcendent joy of the Supreme Being, and received Christ will be totally obsessed with Jesus. And only the truly obsessed have faith – and only those with faith demonstrate the manifestations of the fruits of the Spirit in their life.
Being a “good Mormon” or Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, Wiccan – or any “faithful” [add-Religion-here] only tells me whether a person adheres to the creeds of their respective belief system. That says nothing about whether they have faith in Christ or not.
We should only be concerned with having faith in Christ and experiencing the miraculous works of the Father. Unless one has communed with God, been ministered to by angels, seen visions, received prophecies and revelations, etc. – all incessant talk that professes belief in Christ is just mental masturbation, feeling good but not producing any fruit.
The all-important, saving faith in Jesus Christ that we should be obsessed with is centered in Jesus only:
With sufficient faith, a believer can come to know the truth of all things [Moroni 10:5]. But faith in this-or-that true doctrine does not blossom into experiencing the miraculous works of the Father. If faith is ever transferred from Christ to true things about Christ – then even though what’s spoken may be true, there is no faith there.
Mormons have much truth – but they have essentially transferred all faith to the truths, and thus none of it is on Jesus.
The vast majority of our conversations at church are centered on prophets and apostles, obedience to leaders and commandments, blessings of paying tithing, attending church and the temple, and every other conceivable topic that has nothing, whatsoever, to do with Jesus Christ’s suffering, death, resurrection and judgment upon all mankind.
In fact – a good test is to ask how much of our religious conversations are devoted to the relative, periphery matters and how much is devoted to the experience of God’s love. How comfortable are we in talking about this-or-that issue of the day in light of Mormonism – and how comfortable are we talking about our spiritual contacts with Jesus Christ. With the latter, I’ve found we stumble, are vague, express doubt, and likely just say nothing at all because most people have nothing to say.
Any church not based on the miraculous work of the Father may potentially be a true church, but will be a dead and blind church:
We may have true stories and properly authorized rituals – but they are not enlivened with the Spirit of God because none of them are experienced eye-to-eye as shared experiences. Our standard for judgment is informed by outward appearances instead of by the light of righteous judgments informed by the fruits of the Spirit. [see, What does the phrase “only true and living church” mean?]
This has made the LDS successful in being exactly like the rest of Christianity. There may be true doctrines, disciplines, and rituals – but such things have been made into absolutes and pedestalized as ends unto themselves – instead of being the means to an end – which is obtaining the experience of the miraculous works of the Father.
To convert a bona-fide revelatory experience with God into a prescribed system of creeds and approved practices dodges the real issue. It’s easier to tell ourselves that the important thing is keeping certain rules and believing certain doctrines – instead of turning ourselves over to the transcendent idea that the fundamental nature of Reality [God] reaches into human history to covenant with humans and gather them into a family.
The basic purpose of what we call “the church” is to take unrelated believers in Christ and knit them together by covenant into a single body or family:
When people see a problem with their group worship dynamic – the temptation is always to get together with some like-minded and “do church” more scripturally. However, this often will just create a slightly smaller, less-controlled replication of the same dynamic they were trying to get away from.
The problem lies in the fundamental way we feel towards God, towards the earth, and towards ourselves. It is a model based on the underlying concept of separateness [see, Split-Brain Model of the Gospel: The Fall of Man]:
- God as the male-figure seated on a throne exerting control over nature,
- relating only to a certain in-group by virtue of their religious behavior towards Him,
- living as separate islands of skin-encapsulated centers of will that are plopped onto a earth of otherwise disorganized, inherently-flawed stuff.
The very ideas that are informing our relationship with the world and with other people has to change – the pattern or model of a hierarchy of religious rulers and approved ways of thinking is [itself] broken.
Putting different people in power can’t change a problem that exists because there are people in power. Power must instead be pulled down [Alma 60:36].
You can’t have meetings with an instituted body of the like-minded become “more scriptural” – when the gospel is tribal in nature and meant to be experienced by a group of kin who naturally meets.
One can use religion to serve their Self or to serve God. If you believe that only your collection of stories is the One, True Way of experiencing God – then you are using it to serve your Self. This is the hardened or atrophied religare that creates feelings of superiority and maintains a sense of separation and conflict with others.
On the other hand, when in the service of God, a fluid religare is just the stories left behind by men and women who have had miraculous experiences with the governing Power of the universe that direct the community to receiving that experience for their selves, eye-to-eye.
Effectively, what we call the “Great Apostasy” represented a hedge that had been built up around an individual person and the experience of God. The whole essence of a religious life was reduced to a commodity that needed to be brokered by a male-dominated priestly class. And the “Restoration” was about taking scattered and disconnected people and gathering them – not by virtue of what they believe in the mind or confess with the mouth – but by covenant into a family.
But instead of having a passion for this tribal notion of a separate people-group bound by covenants, gathered out from their scattered state among the tribes of the earth – leadership patterned after the works of men care more about uniformity of thought than about making actual tribal connections between individuals.
Focusing on these outward appearances [which include prescribing behavioral standards and acceptable doctrines] is a manifestation of the current state of the church being guided by the doctrines and commandments of men. While the gospel could be said to prescribe a certain approach to human problems and decisions – any ethical component is but a consequence of a person’s genuine relationship with God – not the basis for receiving one.
The mission of the church of God is to be the ministerial support for individual members becoming Kings and Priests, Queens and Priestesses in their own right – to teach them the word of God, explain and offer the covenants of the gospel, and then allow them to organize themselves accordingly as their local circumstances dictate – helping them as they go from an unrelated body of like-minded and knit them together into a bona-fide family.
As long as a part remains in the body – it is the body:
Most LDS speak about and relate to “the church” as this entity that exists outside of them or separate from their selves. But there is no such thing as a group without the context of the individual people. You cannot have a body without all the components that make it up all together. A group is the sum-total of the individual units that make up that group. The whole is the parts as they are arranged.
Thus, each person is the church. You are the church – and so long as you remain in the church, your views are representative of what the church believes. You are Mormonism — as it is lived out or as it is taken literally by you. The only time that ceases to be true is when you cease to identify as a member of the church.
That’s why I would never advocate someone leaving the church. The group is [hands-down] always better served if everyone who’s ever left over this-or-that doctrinal/history/etc. issue didn’t leave – but rather stayed and lived out their own story in the community.
By most estimates, there are at least as many, if not more, of them than there are of the toe-the-line, mainstream Mormons. So, at this point, if they’d all stayed — they could potentially outnumber the rest, and we’d have an entirely different dynamic in the church.
You represent you – and that is representative of what it means to be Mormon – if it happens to be that you are Mormon.
Now, the Church [as it is organized currently as a corporate entity] is something altogether different. None of us are their representative for what that group is or believes. For that purpose, the Church has official Church spokesmen. You can identify them by the corporate logo they wear on their name-tags. If we all were official representatives of that corporate entity and what it says, then there would be no need to have a group of specially-called official representatives, now would there?
But when people tell me that they no longer find any value in the Mormon experience and want to leave – I get it. I see in many respects how the church is laden with the doctrines and commandments of men, leader-worship, female repression, etc. I truly empathize with people who feel disaffected with church because they’ve increasingly found the three-hour Sunday block [and all that comes with active participation] to be more of an obstacle, instead of a vehicle, for them experiencing the Lord.
I get why they don’t speak up to church leaders in an attempt to change things too. There is no real platform for open and honest discussion among members without getting the: “Well this is the way that the brethren have approved — so like it or leave it”-rhetoric. I wouldn’t expect open and honest disclosure from people who feel put-out [even though I admit it would be better if they all did speak-up].
The environment provided by leaders at church leaves them with no voice and no room to have non-mainstream opinions [at least in some open and honest capacity] – so many don’t see how speaking-up matters. They’ll just be told:
“Look here, if you do not want to subscribe to our form of worship of the Savior, then there are many other Churches to try out until one finds the one that provides that appropriate outlet or none may suffice.”
So they throw-up their hands and leave. I get that.
Imagine a marriage relationship in which every time the wife brings up a certain issue she has with her husband, he gets defensive, he belittles her and yells, etc. — and nothing ever changes.
Now, the husband is doing that particular behavior one day and the wife has that look that women get when you know something’s wrong — she’s obviously bothered. So he asks, “Honey, what’s wrong?” And if you’re married, then you know her answer is, “Nothing.”
Now — it’s not nothing, it’s most definitely something. Why does she say “nothing”?
- Because she’s a liar who doesn’t care about getting the marital issue resolved.
- Because of her experience with her husband, she knows that bringing the issue up will only result in a fight and nothing will be resolved.
Are their marital problems her fault because she won’t be forthcoming about what’s wrong when asked? Or are they his fault because he has failed to provide an environment where his wife feels comfortable talking about her issues in emotional-safety?
The key for me is that the church doesn’t belong to such people. It belongs to Jesus – and He says you have a place in it:
To make that distinction further – each member was baptized into the church of God, not the Church. None of us are listed on the corporate charter of that agency, and are therefore not their agent. The scriptures only describe us as agents “unto ourselves”. As believers in Christ – we ought to also consider ourselves to be agents “unto Him” – and act accordingly.
But our fundamental allegiance is to Christ and to the word of God – thus there is very little concern for whether this-or-that aspect is considered contrary to “general Church-approved practices”, the “long-standing traditions”, etc.
The assumed state of things in the church is to trust no one until you know them well enough to open-up and share your story with them:
Now, I’ve acknowledged that the leaders do not provide a platform for open and honest discussion among members – and there’s no outlet for the disaffected to express their nuance of opinion or their concerns about certain issues. As such, church leaders cannot reasonably expect open and honest disclosure from people who are feeling on the outs.
In fact, in my experience, leaders are often witch-hunters [taking the "judge in Israel" thing to the extreme], always looking for someone to judge as unfaithful, apostate, etc. The only valid reason, in their minds, for “contrary” points-of-view or “unapproved” behavior is worthiness issues. And so although the scriptural law is innocent until proven guilty – according to my experience, when leaders see dissension, they take a guilty until proven innocent stance.
Which is why I’ve taken Alma’s admonition to “trust no one…” [Mosiah 23:14] to be my marching orders and usually keep my mouth shut. I’ve seen that those who implicitly trust the leadership [not living Alma’s admonition to “trust no one” unless you know beyond a reasonable doubt that they are men of God], will often say more than is expedient to say and quickly get into trouble.
I’ve been protected by a revelation I received some years ago that the word of the day for me is, “Shhh” — or that it is always best to be silent, to say nothing, to openly answer no questions to church leadership — sticking with “Yea” for yea and “Nay” for nay if I am ever asked.
But whether you choose to remain in the church and identify yourself as “Mormon” has nothing to do with what the approved practices and long-standing policies of the corporation that runs the church:
“Mormon” is a lot like the term “Christian” — it is more about what the person professes to believe. It is not a term that can be brokered by a particular class of rulers “in charge” of the word.
For example, LDS insist that we are Christian just like everybody else, based on our professed belief in Christ. Others would claim that our more nuanced understanding of Christ, the Godhead, etc. are beyond the leeway allowed for by orthodoxy. But since we profess to believe in Christ – we generally call ourselves “Christian”.
Likewise, the Church has a hard time with professed Mormons who practice polygamy – thinking the term “Mormon” belongs to the corporation. However, polygamist Mormons are Mormons. The Community of Christ are Mormons. Everyone has a professed belief in the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith. We may have more nuanced approaches to certain things [polygamy being the key example], but [like "Christian"] the term is general and correctly identifies all of us [in a general sense].
A person that hears me identify as “Mormon” starts viewing my actions and words as representative of the church. This is why the Church – as a corporate entity – is big on the members considering themselves walking “advertisements” for the Corporation, carefully monitoring the public image that the members “sell”, etc.
But I am not their spokesperson. I am not a broker for their religious product. I am Me.
People do not exist as Platonic Ideas — pure representations of terms or concepts. Being Me means that I represent the unique symphony that is the arrangement of my Life. I can’t pour the entirety of Me into your brain all at once. Each human being is a storytale that has to be shared in order to be known.
We come to know people as we interact with each other. The “whole truth” doesn’t come by “telling” – but by coming to know the real You through experiencing. It cannot be shown all at once – but people do come to see it.
So I’d say, “I’m Mormon” is generally not a bad start for me. Granted, my family does understand certain things differently and holds a bit more of a nuanced opinion on things like what church authority means, what the role of the church with respect to our family is, the priesthood keys and common consent, marriage and family relations, etc. But those views aren’t applicable to every relationship we have with every other church member — just like my entire set of views on things like politics, diet, marijuana, vaccination, homeschooling, etc. don’t need to be put all out on the table every time I meet someone new.
Should the particulars come up, I don’t hide or obscure them — but I don’t hand them out like business cards either.
We should treat our religious identification like we would any other interpersonal interaction – we start basic and progress towards the more specific/personal as [or if] the relationship goes that way. To attempt to disclose the whole picture of the entirety of the specific nuances and peculiarities all at once at a first meeting or in casual interactions is both impractical and unhelpful.
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1 Nephi 13 & 14 commentary, using CTC’s view
On June 17th, 2008, Anthony E. Larson uploaded a post to this blog called, The Great and Abominable Church. A couple of weeks later a visitor called CTC claimed that 1 Nephi 13 & 14 spoke of a literal great and abominable church that had yet to make its appearance and that much of both of these chapters was yet to be fulfilled. He said he got this information from someone who he believed was a bona fide prophet of God. CTC did not use a chronological approach to Nephi’s prophecy. This made it easy for him to get around certain parts which posed problems to him as a future fulfillment. But I’m not going to take that approach. I’m going to read it chronologically and literally, and see where it takes me.
I’m doing this because it interests me, not because I subscribe to this view, so please don’t take this as my interpretation of this chapter. As I’ve said before, my understanding of prophecy is that it is plain and speaks of real things, and also that it often has shadows or types. When CTC first posted his comments, I did not respond, because I hadn’t taken the time to really look at 1 Nephi 13, to see if the fulfillment that we normally assign to it could be a mere shadow. So, I remained silent and let others respond to him. However, recently I have found myself mentioning time and time again about a coming future captivity of the saints, which brought to my mind what Nephi had stated in 1 Nephi 13, which then brought to my mind what CTC had written in his comments.
All of which leads me to this post, in which I look at these chapters and attempt to interpret them as if their literal fulfillment was still future. So, let’s begin.
Chapter Thirteen of First Nephi
I will quote a part of the chapter, then give what is commonly assumed as its fulfillment, but as a shadow, and then I will give its literal future fulfillment. I will try to convincingly show why the shadow fulfillment does not satisfy the prophecy, meaning why the prophecy is not fulfilled every whit by the shadow, necessitating a future, literal fulfillment. I am using this as my Book of Mormon text.
The times of the Gentiles
This is obviously talking about the times of the Gentiles. But which times? The times of the primitive church with the twelve apostles, the times right after the death of the apostles, the times of Joseph Smith, the current times, or a future time of the Gentiles? Nephi isn’t clear on this point, but I will interpret this as a future time.
The formation of a church
Shadow past fulfillment: Some have stated that this is the Roman Catholic Church, a literal church, which would put its formation after the death of the apostles. Others have stated that this is the “church” of science, a metaphorical church, which would put its formation after the Roman Catholic Church. Others believe this is speaking metaphorically about all churches that are not the true saints of God, per the later verse of 1 Ne. 14:10, giving it a metaphorical “formation” and a metaphorical “captivity.” These must all be shadows because they do not fulfill the prophecy every whit.
Literal future fulfillment: This a real church, not a figurative or metaphorical church. And it exists among other, real churches. It literally kills and tortures real saints—or sanctified people who have entered into a covenant with God, witnessed by baptism—and literally binds them, puts real iron yokes upon them and brings them down into literal (not metaphorical) captivity.
To literally fulfill this prophecy every whit, living saints of God must be present during, or after, the formation of this church, and they must be killed, tortured, bound, yoked with iron, and brought into captivity. Also, there must be other, real churches present, which do not pertain to the abominable church.
This has not occurred, yet, for although there were people tortured, killed, put into iron yokes and brought into captivity, by various religious organizations in the past, these tortured souls were not saints of God, for the church of God was already non-existent by then and the saints and apostles were already dead. Therefore, this prophecy must pertain to the future.
Devil, materialism, worldy praise
The previous commentary applies to this section, as well, for if the church of God is not present, in order for this abominable church to bring God’s saints down into captivity and destroy them, it cannot be fulfilled literally.
Many waters
Shadow past fulfillment: The Gentiles of Europe are divided (separated) from the American Indians (Lamanites) by the Atlantic Ocean.
Literal future fulfillment: The Gentiles of Asia are divided (separated) from the American Indians (Lamanites) by “many waters.” The term “many waters” refers to that body of water called by the Nephites, Irreantum, which is the Pacific Ocean.
The Spirit of God upon a man
Shadow past fulfillment: The European Gentile, Christopher Columbus, “believed himself chosen by God to find [a new] land and deliver the light of Christianity to the natives there.” He sailed upon the Atlantic Ocean to the New World, all the way to the Lamanite remnant.
Literal future fulfillment: A man among the Asian Gentiles (not necessarily a Gentile man, nor Asian) will have the Spirit of God come down and work upon him. This man will be a holy prophet of God and will travel from Asia to North America, upon the Irreantum or Pacific Ocean, until he reaches the Lamanite remnant.
The Spirit of God upon captive Gentiles
Shadow past fulfillment: European Gentiles (Puritans) leave Europe and their religious “captivity” for America to partake of religious freedom. (Never mind that Europe was one of the freest places on the planet at the time.) They travel over the Atlantic Ocean.
Literal future fulfillment: Asian Gentiles are wrought upon by the Spirit of God, becoming saints of God, and leave Asian captivity, meaning that they leave the captivity of the tyrannical Chinese, North Korean and other communist regimes and dictatorships, which bind the people down in literal captivity. They travel over the Irreantum (Pacific Ocean.)
The scattering of the Lamanites
Shadow past fulfillment: Lots of European Gentiles are in America. The European Gentiles partially scatter the American Indians and gather them into reservations. The European Gentiles take possession of Indian and American land. Some prosper, some do not. The European Gentiles are white, fair and beautiful.
Literal future fulfillment: Lots of different Gentiles are in America. An unnamed group of (European?) Gentiles fully scatter the American Indians, off of the reservations, and smite them, so that the Lamanites are completely landless. The Spirit of the Lord comes upon a righteous group of (Asian?) Gentiles (saints) and they prosper and inherit the land. This righteous group of Gentiles is white, fair and beautiful.
Former captors wage war against former captives; God saves former captives
Shadow past fulfillment: Many European Gentiles (in the American British colonies) are either deists or believe in God, Christianity and the Bible. The American Revolutionary War ensues. Despite hardships, lack of supplies, training, etc., the American Continental Army defeats the British.
Literal future fulfillment: The Asian Gentiles (who are converted saints of God)—who left their Asian communist countries, who traveled over the Irreantum (Pacific Ocean), who are now living upon the land of America—humble themselves before the Lord and obtain the gifts and powers of the Holy Ghost. Their mother countries (China, Russia and the rest) send warships upon the waters to battle them and gather together upon the water and also gather together upon the land. Divine intervention (miracles of God) takes place and the armies of the mother Gentile nations, as well as the armies of all those nations who were gathered with them to battle the former Asian Gentile captives, are defeated by the power of God, and not by any power of man.
A book, the record of the Jews
Shadow past fulfillment: The European Gentiles (now called American citizens) have a Bible—written by multiple authors, not a single Jew—which has been corrupted by that great and abominable church, you know, the Roman Catholic Church, or the science non-church, or the vast assembly of non-saint churches “church.” That church. Anyway, that church/non-church takes some plain and precious parts away from the Bible and then sends it out to all the European Gentiles, which then makes its way to America, since the European Gentiles have traveled there over the Atlantic Ocean. And because of this faulty Bible, many of the European Gentiles stumble and sin. But hope is not lost, for the Lord has a plan.
Literal future fulfillment: The Asian Gentiles saints living in America have a book, written by a singular Jew, which contains a record of the Jews, the covenants of the Lord and many of the prophecies of the prophets. This book is like the plates of brass, except it doesn’t contain as much information as the plates of brass. It contains the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ and the testimony of all twelve apostles of the Lord.
When the book first appears, written by the singular Jew, it will go to the Gentiles, presumably to the Asian Gentiles who were in captivity, since they will be carrying the book. After it goes to the Gentiles, the great and abominable church will be formed. That church apparently will get a copy of the book and make drastic changes to it, taking out plain and precious parts. Then they will publish the book far and wide, so that it ends up in every Gentile nation, including in America.
There will be, then, two editions of the book. One which is pure, carried by the Asian Gentile saints living in America, and the other which is corrupted, carried by the other Gentiles (living in America and elsewhere). Because of the corrupted version, many Gentiles stumble and sin. But hope is not lost, for the Lord has a plan.
Another book, the record of the Nephites
Shadow past fulfillment: The Book of Mormon, an abridged record of the Nephites, was written, and came forth to the Gentiles that were stumbling, by the gift and power of God, and in it is God’s rock, salvation and gospel, and it contains the many plain and precious parts that have been taken out of the Bible, as well as an abridgment of the ministry of the Savior to the Nephites. Those during the time of Joseph Smith were blessed with the gift and power of the Holy Ghost as they sought to establish Zion.
Future literal fulfillment: An unabridged Nephite record (not the Book of Mormon) will be written, to come forth to the Gentiles that stumble, by the gift and power of God, and in it will be God’s rock, salvation and gospel, and it will contain the many plain and precious parts that have been taken out of the book that is carried by the Asian Gentile saints. In the Nephite record will be “many things” that the Savior personally ministered to the Nephites. In other words, it will be an unabridged account of that ministry. Those during the time of the appearance of this unabridged Nephite record will be blessed with the gift and power of the Holy Ghost as they seek to establish Zion.
Two records established in one
Shadow past fulfillment: The Bible written by multiple Jews went to the Lamanites. Later, the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price went to the Lamanites, and these last records established the truth of the Bible (as far as it is translated correctly), which is a record of the four apostles of the Lord, and made known the plain and precious parts missing in it. Both volumes of scripture were established in one, by being bound up as a quadruple combination.
Literal future fulfillment: The unchanged book carried by the Asian Gentile saints, written by a singular Jew, will go to the Lamanites. Later, the unabridged Nephite record (as well as other records) will go to the Lamanites and will establish the truth of the unadulterated book that is carried about by the Asian Gentile saints, which is a record of all twelve apostles of the Lord, and will make known the plain and precious parts that are missing in the perverted edition of that record. Both volumes of scripture will be established in one.
Chapter Fourteen of First Nephi
The whole of 1 Nephi 14 is still future, according to my understanding, but since I’m using CTC’s view to interpret the prophecy, I will try to bring up anything that may coincide with what I wrote about chapter thirteen.
Numbering
Shadow past/present fulfillment: I suppose latter-day saints could interpret numbering among the house of Israel as fulfilled by getting their patriarchal blessings, which tell them what tribe they have been assigned to.
Literal future fulfillment: Numbering is a tribal function. I’ve already gone over this on this blog before, so I’m not going to elaborate on this topic again. Let it suffice that my understanding is that this pertains to the future and has not yet been fulfilled in any part, whatsoever.
The great and marvelous work
Shadow past fulfillment: The times of Joseph Smith in which he restored many lost truths and layed the foundation of the kingdom is often thought as the great and marvelous work.
Literal future fulfillment: The great and marvel work takes places after the numbering of the Gentiles among the house of Israel, therefore, it is still a future event.
The covenants of the Father to the house of Israel
I don’t really need to comment on this.
Two churches only
Shadow past fulfillment: Some use this scripture retroactively, to apply to the thirteenth chapter of First Nephi. So, they define the great and abominable church as everything that isn’t the LDS church.
Literal future fulfillment: The great and marvelous work, which is still future, will cause a division among the people, so that there are no longer a multiplicity of churches on earth. Everything will either align itself with the great and abominable church, being absorbed by her, or join the saints of God in the now-called church of the Lamb of God. The church of the Lamb of God will be using, if you remember, the Book of the Lamb of God. In other words, that unchanged book written by a singular Jew, carried by the Asian Gentile saints, which contains the writings of the twelve (not four) apostles of the Lamb. Just as Mormons are called Mormons because of the book they carry and use and believe, so the Lamb of God church will be called by the name of their main book.
Headquarters in the midst of Irreantum
Shadow past fulfillment: Bad (non-LDS) churches are all over the planet.
Literal future fulfillment: The great and abominable church will be headquartered somewhere in the Pacific Ocean and will have global reach.
The church of the Lamb of God
Shadow past fulfillment: Good (LDS) churches are all over the planet.
Literal future fulfillment: The church of the Lamb of God will have global reach, but small membership, due to the other church’s wickedness.
Gathering of the whore to fight the Lamb
I ain’t gonna interpret this.
Power of God upon the saints and covenant people
Nor will I interpret this. But do notice that at this point in the prophetic timeline, the covenant people of the Lord are still in their scattered state.
Worldwide wars
Nor will I interpret this. But do notice that only now, after there are wars and rumors of war everywhere, after the numbering, after the unabridged Nephite record and the record of the twelve apostles of the Lamb come forth, etc., only after all these things happen does the work of the Father commence in preparing the way for the fulfilling of His covenants with Israel!
The apostle John
Shadow past fulfillment: John the apostle wrote the Book of Revelation, which contains some of the things that Nephi saw and the Book of Revelation is found in the Bible, which was written by multiple Jews.
Literal future fulfillment: John the apostle will appear in the future, with a mission to gather the tribes of Israel, as a Jewish Elias, meaning an Elias of the tribe of Judah, and he will come and restore all things pertaining to the Jews.
It was for this reason that John was translated, that he might perform this latter-day work.
John, then, is the Jew, out of whose mouth the book, which Nephi saw in vision, would proceed. He is the “hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb” which will write this book. Through John will proceed the record and testimony of all twelve apostles of the Lamb, and all the things which Nephi saw will be written by John, “and also many things which have been,” meaning that John will write things which preceded Nephi. The writings of John in the Bible do not cover all the things that the angel told Nephi John would write, which would be written in the book that proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, which is called “the Book of the Lamb of God.”
And this is the very reason why the angel prohibited Nephi from writing the rest of his vision. The Book of Revelation does not contain the vision that Nephi saw. If anything, it only contains a part of the vision, or an abridgement. Nephi could not write what he saw because it was not the proper time for that information to come forth. When John re-appears on the scene, he will dictate the book that Nephi saw the Asian Gentile saints carrying, which will contain the full vision of Nephi, as well as the covenants of the Lord, many of the prophecies of the prophets, the testimony of all twelve apostles, a record of the Jews and “many things which have been.” Yet, despite all that, it will still be less material than what the plates of brass contain.
John may, in fact, be the man who is wrought upon by the Spirit of God, who goes forth upon the many waters (Irreantum) to the promised land, who is followed by the Asian Gentile saints. John may be that man among the Asian Gentiles, who preaches to them and gives them the book that he will write, which they will carry with them to the promised land. John may be the very one who frees them from captivity, allowing them to leave their countries and come over the Irreantum to America.
Wrapping this up
Is any of this true? Could our standard interpretation of these two chapters be mere shadows? I will leave it up to the reader to figure that out for him or herself. One thing is for sure, if 1 Nephi 13 has yet to be literally fulfilled, we know what the very first thing mentioned is: the formation of a great and abominable church and the death, torture and captivity of the saints. Let us hope that none of the things I wrote above have any basis in prophetic reality.
Complete List of Articles authored by LDS Anarchist
December 29, 2012
Categories: Patriarchal Blessings, Babylon, Secret Combinations, Preaching the Gospel, Zion, Repentance, Prophecy, Symbolism, Jesus Christ, LDS, Gift of the Holy Ghost, Holy Ghost, Power of the Holy Ghost, Sanctification, Prophets, Scriptural Expositions, Tribalism . Tags: America, American Indians, Asia, Atlantic Ocean, Baptism, Book of Mormon, Book of the Lamb of God, captivity, Christopher Columbus, Church, Church of the Devil, Church of the Lamb of God, covenants, Death, destruction, devil, Elias, Europe, Gathering, Gentiles, Great and Abominable Church, Great and Marvelous Work, history, House of Israel, Irreantum, Jesus Christ, Jew, Jews, John, John the Apostle, John the Beloved, Lamanites, Land of Promise, Last Days, Latter-days, Nephi, Nephites, Pacific Ocean, Prophecy, Prophecy Interpretation, Remnant of Jacob, saints, Saints of God, Scattering, Scriptural Commentary, Scriptures, Spirit of God, Torture, Tribes of Israel, War, Warfare . Author: LDS Anarchist . Comments: 53 Comments